Victory Conditions in BoB

[Nikademus]

Havn't read through the entire thread in complete detail so if this is already been said....apologies in advance.

From what i've read, it wasn't the sector station airfields themselves that would assist the Germans in obtaining the abstracted "air superiority" but the communications hubs that were present at the key sector stations. Damage to these could and did seriously hinder FC's ability to control and direct it's defenses in the affected area.

According to one source i own, the Luftwaffe never became totally aware of the locations of these hubs. Had they....well its added to the ever growing list of "what if" situations. Problem of course for BoB is that if included in the game in more detail, hindsight would give the Ger player a key advantage unless there was a randomization factor invovled.

[otisabuser2]

Hi Nik,

yes the Sector Ops buildings were vunerable. The RAF realised this too late, perhaps.

They did have a rather simple solution, that is hard to model in game ! They looked for a suitable alternative premises in the locality for use as a back up.

The well known one used was at Biggen Hill where they used shop in the local village. How far down the list of LW targets would that have been ? This was soon operational, and effectively now invunerable as no matter how many bombs were dropped on the airfield.

Kenley's alternative was a butchers shop in Old Caterham village.

Curiously, most of the serious damage done to the Sector airfields effectiveness was accidental rather than deliberate. The intentional destruction of hanger buildings, had little effect. More immediatley harmful was the collateral damage to Ops rooms and the severing of telephone and power lines.

[Hard Sarge]

Some of the thought in this post group, just want to point out, that damage to runways scores no points in the game ?

it is damage to Opp and Com, that scores the points, the runway just messes with the take off and landing is fixed pretty fast


(so idea of bombing the AF is just holes in the ground, is not what is being scored for AS)

[Nikademus]

From my reading of the rulebook....runway damage repairs fairly quickly.....not suprised it would be a non-points issue.

here's a question....has anyone ever won as Luftwaffe via primarily air superiority, by wearing down FC and damging it's facilities?

[otisabuser2]

Some of the thought in this post group, just want to point out, that damage to runways scores no points in the game ?

it is damage to Opp and Com, that scores the points, the runway just messes with the take off and landing is fixed pretty fast

Sure, but in real terms this will really be holes in the airfield.

The following day the Com will be a shop in a local village and fully opperational. The Opp damage is damage to hangers etc. So what ? The Spitfires and Hurricanes are out on the field, the hangers were used to store trainers, hacks and private motor cars.

[otisabuser2]

Trying to think of a better way to express this [:(]

Ok, say I decide that in the Biggin Hill sector I wanted to base all my fighter squadrons at the satellite fields to disperse them. Put one at Manston, and a couple each at West Malling, Eastchurch and Gravesend. My planes are flying and fighting from these fields. They are maintained from these fields, and those they can't repair go off to the CRO to be fixed and replacements come in from MU's. This is not a retreat.

Back at Biggin Hill, is the sector Ops building, from where they receive their orders. OK, it may not be a hardened bunker, but there is a back up plan that if this gets hit, we'll use an alternative site in town which Jerry will never find. Even if the staff at the original get wiped out in a direct hit, we'll form a new cadre out of the other shifts and draft in extra staff from elsewhere.

Then the LW come over every day and hit Biggin, flatten it doing 100/100/100 damage to Radar/Comms/Service. Now they get 300 points for wiping out the Comms PLUS 300 points for wiping out the Service. Wow that's 600 points.

Comms repairs at 1 point per 4 hours, so 16 hours later at dawn it will have dropped down to 96%. Great, in Real life it would have been up and running again down at the local village shop.

Service repairs also at 1 point per 4 hours, so also at 96 in the morning. LW still gets 288 points for this being down. BUT what is actually down ? No planes are based here, no planes are repaired here.

Why should the LW continue to score big points here when the RAF are somewhere else ?

They will only REALLY win the battle by hitting the RAF fighters. They needed to destroy them in the air and in the ground to give the German bombers liberty to strike at will. Putting bombs liberally around a certain large piece of flat ground alone, will not acheive this.

[matchwood]

Hi otisabuser2

I think you're on the right track there. Who cares how many bomb craters there are in fields or damaged hangers and communications. All that matters is that at any point in time if the Germans were to launch their invasion does Britain have enough serviceable planes in range of the beaches?

We might as well scrap points from damaging airfields. The points would come from the unserviceable planes at the airfields. Eg damaged planes that would not be repaired, refueled ect.

Somewhere along the way it became scoring for scoring's sake? If the German player reduces British fighter strength (ie planes that are serviceable, have fuel and are at a base with minimal damage) in Southern England below a certain level they win. If the British player pulls back too many squadrons to the North to refit - they lose.

G

[Nikademus]

Understand the very finite status of airfield damage but Communication/command/control is vital otherwise the fighters are useless. Just to complicate things more too, a good amount of damage to airfields and airfield services that occured was not simply brushed off in a day or under. The most recent book i read on the BoB mentioned this along with the sector communications damage. Had the LW kept focusing on the airfields and their affiliate services it could have gone very bad for the RAF.

My question in regards to the game itself however still stands...has anyone "won" the game through destroying the RAF's infrastructure as opposed to industrial targeting? (such as the famous Power Plant strategy)

[otisabuser2]

Hi Nik,

My question in regards to the game itself however still stands...has anyone "won" the game through destroying the RAF's infrastructure as opposed to industrial targeting? (such as the famous Power Plant strategy)

I'll have to pass on this one. There's never been the need until now.

Had the LW kept focusing on the airfields and their affiliate services it could have gone very bad for the RAF.

Yes, there is no doubt about this. But as above, why give Primary Sector airfields such a high points value. There is no need to base a single plane there to win the game.

If there was a system of lower points for destroying many or all of the airfields, then that makes more sense.

There is no similar points scoring system for BTR, where only the ratio of ready aircraft counts towards an Air Superiority score.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: otisabuser2

I'll have to pass on this one. There's never been the need until now.

Is that because of the famous Power Plant strategy that i've been hearing of?

Yes, there is no doubt about this. But as above, why give Primary Sector airfields such a high points value. There is no need to base a single plane there to win the game.

If there was a system of lower points for destroying many or all of the airfields, then that makes more sense.

mainly to represent their crucial link between FC and the satellite airfields. I see your point though game-wise. As mentioned, the problem here is hindsight....any LW player in the know would immediately target these sector stations both for the points as well as the impairment/crippling of response time. Unless such a thing could be randomized somehow with each new game, it would probably be better just to go with the system in BTR....my only concern there is can the LW player do it. Airfields seem to repair fast and it can be hard (i assume.....only have BTR to go by for extensive play experience) to hit the aircraft on the ground.

I have a BoB game going against the AI as Luft....hopefully i can tear some time away and play around with it more.

[otisabuser2]

Hi Nik,

here's a question....has anyone ever won as Luftwaffe via primarily air superiority, by wearing down FC and damging it's facilities?

By getting a pure AS victory, yes. It's a matter of just hitting 5 or 6 airfields hard. People were boasting on the BTR site that this could be done in one turn. I could only do it in a couple of turns, but I play the cautiously with an eye on losses.

In effect, it's a gamey victory, as much as the power plant one is.

Played an example turn last night. Sent raids to BH and Kenley, did 600 points to one and 300 to the other, shooting the AS level up from 3 to 5. Losses on either side were light. Only used a fraction of the LW.

Airfields seem to repair fast

No runways repair fast. Service and Comms repair at 1 point per 4 hours ( 6 points per day ).

[Hard Sarge]

Interesting
I crush 5 of the main AF's and I stick around 4-5 (and have hammered FC pretty good)

[otisabuser2]

Yeah, got lucky with doing 100 Comms damage to Biggin Hill. You can't always hit the Comms, but if you do you reap in the extra points.

About every 700 airfield damage points boost you up one AS level. I probably got the boost for the second point through resting much of the LW now I think about it.

Nevertheless. AS starts at 3 ( and a bit ). Each 600 points for a crushed Primary Sector almost add an extra AS level.

It actually doesn't pay to hit other targets as the LW. This only causes casualties from flak and lowers the number of ready plans for next turn. Thus lowering the AS level.