Defining "Elite"

[KG Erwin]

Well, then, so are these (for Marines with the "safety" on?) [:D] :

[PimpYourAFV]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

I see that 1944 Finn Infantry squads have satchel charges and Molotovs, and the Engineers have something called a Flamegun. How did they get all this stuff? The answer, of course, is that they were so small in numbers. Let's go back 5 years. Despite their courage, a large army with massive artillery (AKA the Russians) smashed the Mannerheim Line in 1939 and forced the territorial concessions that drove the Finns into the arms of the Germans.

You should read a book called "The Winter War" by William Trotter, one of the best military books I've read. The Russians were getting desperate for an end to it, either by breakthrough or peace agreement. Bad bunch them Russians were. Were it not for the Finns lack of ammo and a few more AT guns, the Russians would have gotten nowhere. The Finns didn't fire their arty unless a visible mob of attacking Russians was to be hit. This means they had to keep their fingers off the triggers even when Russian assembly areas were packed with juicy targets. Infantry charging tanks with satchel charges was the norm. The Finns are very brave.

[sabrejack]

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

I think it would be a good battle I see if I can get someone else to play it[:D]

I'm having a heck of a time leaning how to use arty properly in SPMBT [:(]

OK - that's our next game. Feel free to set it up once you're done killing my Russians. I'll take either side.

[RockinHarry]

IMO elite is troops with extensive prior combat experience, balls and selected as well as trained to survive and perform superior under many non standard combat situations that might be airborne training, winter warfare, guerilla warfare, electronics/communications and much more. I think neither a standard US marine nor SS combat unit applies to this nor do I think the US 82nd nor 101 AB would fall into this category. They surely were tough, well trained and highly specialized guys, but a german infantry division with 2-3 years service at the eastern front surely was as well or even more. I also think that anything that refers to an elite unit needs to be maintained over a long time period and neither the german SS nor Para units maintained their combat qualities for the duration of the war. The late war german Para units had not even jump training for the great majority of its personnel, nor were the SS selected and fit volunteers anymore.

were the finns elite? They cleverly made best use of what they had available, while the russians badly underappreciated these abilities. One can´t make one side elite only cause the other side performed exemplary bad.

What counts to have elite units if the higher leadership fails to make (good) use of them?

Leaves only the Rangers, SAS and Brandenburgers for "elite" status, not to be confused with SPWAW "elite" status which probably would be better described by effect with the term "above average"..maybe.[8|]

my 5 euro cents

[VikingNo2]

What about Marine Raiders?

[Nikademus]

Most previous Grigsby penned titles tend to define elite as exp 90 or better but then again thats using a scale of 0-99. WAW uses a 10-140 scale and defines "elite" as 100+ Always noticed that few scenario designers ever cross this threshold. Maybe they dont consider ANY organization as elite [;)]

[Puukkoo]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Most previous Grigsby penned titles tend to define elite as exp 90 or better but then again thats using a scale of 0-99. WAW uses a 10-140 scale and defines "elite" as 100+ Always noticed that few scenario designers ever cross this threshold. Maybe they dont consider ANY organization as elite [;)]

True. I tend to make at least some units little better than the others. Especially those units who have historical leaders present.