What new scenarios would you like to see?

[Trigger Happy]

If Matrix wanna have fun, they can put an AI in the enormous scenarios...

[Oleg Mastruko]

Am I the only one who is unnerved by the fact that some very important discussions re future of TOAW are being posted on other forums by people now officially involved in game development???

I have absolutely nothing against SZO, ACG, or any other site or web board on the planet, in fact more power to them...

However...

This is the only wargaming board I frequent, and there is a reason for that. I spend enough time here, and have no time nor will to go elsewehere to discuss MATRIX GAMES PRODUCTS. What I am trying to say is:

a) As a matter of netiquette and good manners people who are *officially involved* with ex-Talonsoft games development should discuss stuff HERE. Period.

b) Matrix employess (Erik, David etc.) should kindly ask (if not outright order [:D]) those officially involved guys to discuss important, official stuff HERE.

I don't care if "public at large" is discussing this and that wherever they want to, but now that this game is property of Matrix Games, official people (like Stauffenberg McBride and King Siberian HEAT) should know better and discuss official stuff at official place - ie here. What is the purpose of official guys posting game info on other web boards instead of posting it here??

Oleg

[*Lava*]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: Lava

Do you have a link for this?

For the list? No. All I know is that Daniel McBride has selected a group of eighteen people who will trawl through all known scenarios to weed out the ones with serious problems. The remainder will get put on the CD.

Ah!

Very Kewl!

Looking forward to some sort of update on this when the guys start firming things up.

Ray (alias Lava)

[*Lava*]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

Am I the only one who is unnerved by the fact that some very important discussions re future of TOAW are being posted on other forums by people now officially involved in game development???

I have absolutely nothing against SZO, ACG, or any other site or web board on the planet, in fact more power to them...

However...

Yep a little,

But you have to admire these guys for keeping the torch lite.

I know I have been a bit of a butthead concerning some issues, but I hope everyone will come together to form a good community here at Matrix.

I think sites dedicated to TOAW cannot be a bad thing, really. It appears there is a fairly diverse group of troops running around. The more the merrier.

But I do hope things, as they firm up, find their way here as well.

Ray (alias Lava)

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Lava
Yep a little,

But you have to admire these guys for keeping the torch lite.

Absolutely... But these games are now Matrix games. So those guys, "development managers", "beta test leaders", "scenario compilers" or whatever they are called, are working for Matrix right now.

It would be nice and civil if they would post their announcements, recruit beta testers and whatnot, here, not elsewhere, or at least here first.

I think Matrix bosses oughta make them do so.

I know communities like SZO did a lot to keep the flame alive, but to find crucial announcements being posted on SZO board and NOT here, by a guy Matrix chose as "team leader" or whatever, seems very unprofessional and rude. Just my opinion.

O.

[*Lava*]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

I know communities like SZO did a lot to keep the flame alive, but to find crucial announcements being posted on SZO board and NOT here, by a guy Matrix chose as "team leader" or whatever, seems very unprofessional and rude. Just my opinion.

O.

Ahh,

Yes, I would tend to agree with you there. Hopefully old habits and good friends was behind that. And undoubtedly, since those guys are still active, getting input on stuff like scenarios from them would seem to be a fairly logical beginning.

No reason why they can't double post important stuff though.

If these guys really are coming up with a group of really well made user scenarios for inclusion on the CD, I believe they will find their largest audience here.

Ray (alias Lava)

[JMS2]

ORIGINAL: Lava

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

I know communities like SZO did a lot to keep the flame alive, but to find crucial announcements being posted on SZO board and NOT here, by a guy Matrix chose as "team leader" or whatever, seems very unprofessional and rude. Just my opinion.

O.

Ahh,

Yes, I would tend to agree with you there. Hopefully old habits and good friends was behind that. And undoubtedly, since those guys are still active, getting input on stuff like scenarios from them would seem to be a fairly logical beginning.

No reason why they can't double post important stuff though.

If these guys really are coming up with a group of really well made user scenarios for inclusion on the CD, I believe they will find their largest audience here.

Ray (alias Lava)

Come on, Ray, you can't have it both ways, you want to muzzle any possible criticism or comment on TOAW here, and you want the people developing the next TOAW here. Get serious.

[*Lava*]

ORIGINAL: JMS2

Come on, Ray, you can't have it both ways, you want to muzzle any possible criticism or comment on TOAW here, and you want the people developing the next TOAW here. Get serious.

Again, you, like other, misrepresent me.

I do not oppose criticism or the desire to change this or that in the game.

What I oppose is the manner in which such criticism is being given. The "holier than thou" approach may work with some people, but it doesn't impress me.

Meanwhile, Oleg is correct in his questioning of where discussion of changes to the game should appear. Having been accused of not reading "the holy 100 bug document" I questioned whether artillery barrages on empty hexes to destroy bridges was really "operational." Go over to the zone... you will find a new thread over there now addressing just that subject.

Working behind peoples backs and bullying developers, these are really crude instruments for justifying changes to the game.

What's wrong, don't have the balls to post your stuff here, where everyone is not your mate?

Ray (alias Lava)

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Lava
Working behind peoples backs and bullying developers, these are really crude instruments for justifying changes to the game.

What?

What's wrong, don't have the balls to post your stuff here, where everyone is not your mate?

I dunno about JMS- but I find this environment more friendly than WHQ/SZO.

[JMS2]

ORIGINAL: Lava

ORIGINAL: JMS2

Come on, Ray, you can't have it both ways, you want to muzzle any possible criticism or comment on TOAW here, and you want the people developing the next TOAW here. Get serious.

Again, you, like other, misrepresent me.

I do not oppose criticism or the desire to change this or that in the game.

What I oppose is the manner in which such criticism is being given. The "holier than thou" approach may work with some people, but it doesn't impress me.

Meanwhile, Oleg is correct in his questioning of where discussion of changes to the game should appear. Having been accused of not reading "the holy 100 bug document" I questioned whether artillery barrages on empty hexes to destroy bridges was really "operational." Go over to the zone... you will find a new thread over there now addressing just that subject.

Working behind peoples backs and bullying developers, these are really crude instruments for justifying changes to the game.

What's wrong, don't have the balls to post your stuff here, where everyone is not your mate?

Ray (alias Lava)

Odd, you apparently confuse yourself with this unnamed developers we are supposedly bullying, but in the meantime here's Oleg proposing that the people developing this should be forced to post only here, guess that's not bullying, and we have you, arrogantly deciding what's a bug and what isn't and trying to muzzle people that have more experience than you (both individually and collectively) on the system.

Apparently I do have the balls, since I am here indeed, yet you nor Oleg are anywhere to be seen in those other sites, you know, the ones that kept the game alive, while you hid in your hole. What, afraid that they aren't your mates and may disagree with you? the horror!, but then, that's why the forums exist in the first place.

[JMS2]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

ORIGINAL: Lava
Yep a little,

But you have to admire these guys for keeping the torch lite.

Absolutely... But these games are now Matrix games. So those guys, "development managers", "beta test leaders", "scenario compilers" or whatever they are called, are working for Matrix right now.

It would be nice and civil if they would post their announcements, recruit beta testers and whatnot, here, not elsewhere, or at least here first.

I think Matrix bosses oughta make them do so.

I know communities like SZO did a lot to keep the flame alive, but to find crucial announcements being posted on SZO board and NOT here, by a guy Matrix chose as "team leader" or whatever, seems very unprofessional and rude. Just my opinion.

O.

Let me check the NDA... no, no clause forcing us to post exclusively on Matrix forums, too bad, it's called Freedom of speech...

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: JMS2
Odd, you apparently confuse yourself with this unnamed developers we are supposedly bullying, but in the meantime here's Oleg proposing that the people developing this should be forced to post only here, guess that's not bullying, and we have you, arrogantly deciding what's a bug and what isn't and trying to muzzle people that have more experience than you (both individually and collectively) on the system.

Apparently I do have the balls, since I am here indeed, yet you nor Oleg are anywhere to be seen in those other sites, you know, the ones that kept the game alive, while you hid in your hole. What, afraid that they aren't your mates and may disagree with you? the horror!, but then, that's why the forums exist in the first place.

If you have Company A, developing Product X, and there are some people who work on that Product, either as volunteers, outside beta testers, or paid professionals, then I have every right to expect info about Product X to appear FIRST and foremost on Company A's website and forums. That for me is basic netiquette and business culture if you will. Yes they should be "forced" to post here by their bosses from Matrix, because it's Matrix professionalism and goodwill that's at stake.

I never said they should "post only here" I said post here first. If they want to discuss at length whatever they please, with their old buddies elsewhere they are of course free to do so. But Matrix web is the only official place for Matrix products.

It pissed me off to see important TOAW related posts posted more than week ago on SZO, by a guy that Matrix picked as "team leader" (or whatever) for this game. Why should Matrix customers have to go to other sites to get info about Matrix games, by Matrix people? So yes, this guy, "team leader" for one of Matrix products, should be politely asked to post important, informative stuff here first, and read this forum (after that he can post whatever he wants wherever he wants for all I care).

Now to address your ridicolous "where were you when we true revolutionaries/crusaders kept the flame alive" argument...

I was there too. I lurked, and even occassionally posted on SZO board, but, frankly, after playing TOAW for 3-4 years every day for hours on end, and after I played thru every scenario worth playing, and after reading every whiney post worth reading on SZO, decided to move on, and play any of the half dozen excellent other wargames on the market (80% of them published by Matrix BTW). So? If I proclaim my guilt and apologize before Grand Court Of Supreme Soviet of TOAW flame keepers, or Grand Inquisitor for TOAW Heretics, will I be forgiven?

Oleg

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko
If you have Company A, developing Product X, and there are some people who work on that Product, either as volunteers, outside beta testers, or paid professionals, then I have every right to expect info about Product X to appear FIRST and foremost on Company A's website and forums.

You have every right to expect whatever you like. You can expect Matrix to provide you with a six figure salary if you like. However, it is unlikely to happen. Matrix can and will do what they want.

Why should Matrix customers have to go to other sites to get info about Matrix games, by Matrix people?

Because the vast majority of the interested parties are not regular posters on this forum? Of those who've posted more than once or twice here, I can only think of three (yourself, Lava and Capitaine) who aren't regulars at either TDG or WHQ. As I recall you three are no longer TOAW players anyway.

So? If I proclaim my guilt and apologize before Grand Court Of Supreme Soviet of TOAW flame keepers, or Grand Inquisitor for TOAW Heretics, will I be forgiven?

You don't need to feel guilty for not playing TOAW lately. However, the fact you'd given up on the game does make it a bit rich for you to be demanding this or that from the developers, and even worse for you to tell us that the game can't be improved.

[Oleg Mastruko]

You have every right to expect whatever you like. You can expect Matrix to provide you with a six figure salary if you like. However, it is unlikely to happen. Matrix can and will do what they want.

Correct. However, I think this is actually very likely to happen. Matrix people take care to appear professional before their customers, and I think guys working as volunteers (or whatever) on "Ex-Talonsoft" titles recently acquired by MG will be politely asked to post here by Erik or some other MG employee. Just my educated guess [;)]

Because the vast majority of the interested parties are not regular posters on this forum? Of those who've posted more than once or twice here, I can only think of three (yourself, Lava and Capitaine) who aren't regulars at either TDG or WHQ. As I recall you three are no longer TOAW players anyway.

Correct again but so what? I don't have time, will nor energy to visit 6 wargaming forums daily, so I picked one, this one, and that's it. Guess what? As of couple weeks ago company that owns this forum also owns rights to Game X, so I think I have every right to see stuff about Game X here. Whether I play Game X or not has no relevance. I may play it one day again (after buying it from Company that owns it).

You don't need to feel guilty for not playing TOAW lately. However, the fact you'd given up on the game does make it a bit rich for you to be demanding this or that from the developers, and even worse for you to tell us that the game can't be improved.

I am not feeling guilty at all, I am being sarcastic - surely you noticed that... [;)]

I have more TOAW-hours under my belt than most, either here or on SZO, WHQ etc. although using this as argument is very childish.

I stopped playing the game because I felt there are no new quality scenarios to keep my interest alive. And there were other games on the horizon. Frankly, I feel sorry for anyone who missed on half dozen excellent, very innovative and new wargaming titles (mostly, but not all, published by Matrix) because he was stuck with TOAW for all those years.

I may go back to TOAW after all, but unlike many daydreamers, revolutionaries and flame keepers, I keep my expectations and wishes for TOAW ME realistic. [8D]

O.

[Siberian HEAT]

Gentlemen,

Before this spirals out of control, let's just all relax a bit. First of all, NOTHING has happened. Exactly what news are we supposed to be posting here? I guess I could post a nice update which says "...and this week in TOAW ME News, nothing has happened." If that is what is expected, I am sorry for not being on top of things.

Why post at SZO instead of on Matrix TOAW Forum? David selected a group of TOAW players based on their experience and positive work over the past many years in supporting this game. He had the good sense not to demand that we gut the SZO forums (and others) and force people to post at Matrix games to do feature requests and list bugs. There is no evil plot to exclude Matrix regulars, and screaming bloody murder and demanding that community volunteers should be force marched to Matrix Games is going to be lose-lose for everyone involved. Trying to dump on SZO and paint them as the bad guy here is going to do nothing but further alienate many of the veterans of the TOAW scene.

Most people have been very supportive, including many long timers from Matrix who have kept this all in a positive light and contacted us with emails and PM's. It would be much more productive to take the time to go to SZO (or Rugged Defense, or TDG, or the Blitz) and just introduce yourself as a prospective new player or returning regular and say hello. Even if you do nothing else, it shows that the whole community is united on TOAW. I can tell you (with some experience in how to build a community) that this will result in people trickling in to Matrix's TOAW forum much faster than kicking them in the nuts and then expecting them to call this home. I really can't state it any plainer than that.

Thanks again to the Matrix regulars who have been supportive of our efforts. And let's not forget that I am also a registered Matrix Games Forum member, and while I can't yet call this my home, the natives have been very hospitable and I'm thinking about purchasing a summer condo here. [:D]

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

I stopped playing the game because I felt there are no new quality scenarios to keep my interest alive.

When did you decide this? There are fewer scenarios being released now than a few years ago- but the average quality has soared.

Frankly, I feel sorry for anyone who missed on half dozen excellent, very innovative and new wargaming titles (mostly, but not all, published by Matrix) because he was stuck with TOAW for all those years.

None of them have the same scope as TOAW. Since TOAW covers the scope I'm interested in, I don't see why I should change.

I keep my expectations and wishes for TOAW ME realistic. [8D]

...and demand that everyone else be pessimistic, too.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

I stopped playing the game because I felt there are no new quality scenarios to keep my interest alive.

When did you decide this?

I think it was late summer 2002. Around the time I discovered UV I think (but am not sure). I'll have to check with my official biographers about this [:D]

None of them have the same scope as TOAW. Since TOAW covers the scope I'm interested in, I don't see why I should change.

You don't have to. However, I'd suggest you to check out games like HTTR ot WITP. You might be surprised...

O.

[*Lava*]

ORIGINAL: Siberian HEAT

Before this spirals out of control, let's just all relax a bit.

Totally agree.

Looking forward to the fruits of your labors.

And BTW, I never quit playing TOAW. I have two computers, and the disc has a permanent home in one of them.

Ray (alias Lava)

[macgregor]

Sorry to all you anti-huge scenario guys. No surprise I'd like to see a comprehensive WW2 scenario. Either in one scenario or two connected by TOs. While I'm at it, how about a comprehensive 'War on Terror' scenario starting on 9/11 that would encompass the entire middle east and southern asia that would allow several options(and consequences).(Hmmm...Indonesia?) Maybe a series of scenarios is in order. A working naval representation would make scens like 'Malvinas' much better.

BTW- I'm dying to help an experienced scenario designer with any scenario. This way I could learn scenario design more gradually. Send me a message if you're interested.

[Siberian HEAT]

ORIGINAL: Lava

Totally agree.

Looking forward to the fruits of your labors.

And BTW, I never quit playing TOAW. I have two computers, and the disc has a permanent home in one of them.

Ray (alias Lava)

Thanks Ray. I can say with certainty that you will no longer need to have your CD-ROM permanently occupied by the TOAW CD. The new version will not have that Safedisc code on it. At one point I even considered buying an extra drive so that I wouldn't ever have to take the disc out...so I know how you must feel. [:D]