Paradox signs Mad Minute Games

[Adam@madminutegames.com]

Some folks like RTS...some like Turn-Based...some like WWII only..whatever. The main thing is that Wargames are great fun and there's a flavor for everyone. We started MadMinute Games because we wanted to add more flavor! Wargamers, whether they're Grogs or newbies, need to stick together. There's not that much content out there for the wargamers who love this stuff. We all need to support eachother! Matrix, Battlefront, Paradox, Shrapnel, etc all have games that are great and should be supported if those companies make a game (flavor) that appeals to you.

If it's not yer cup of tea...fine...no worries! But it is to another fellow wargamer! Diversity can be a strength or a huge weakness. Wargames will never see attention by major publishers if we continue to splinter ourselves with bickering and infighting over ridiculous particulars all the while missing the big picture! A house divided cannot stand!

[mogami]

Hi, I really like Midminutes Take Command. I had to get a new computer to run it but it is a very good game. It feels like you are a brigade or division commander.

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: Lava

ORIGINAL: Veldor

Probably because its a non-grog title

You obviously haven't played any of their stuff. These guys are diehards when it comes to historical accuracy.

Ray (alias Lava)

Two strikes for me now. I guess I'll just reserve the right to have my own definition of the term "grog" until someone points me to whatever is the authoritative source on that definition. I know I am not alone in my defining of the term, though possibly still in the minority.

Like I said, to the wargamer masses, its "uncool" to be a non-grog or call anything that.

In my book I was complementing the game, but I can see how it would look like an insult to some of you.

Diehards in historical accuracy or not its still a non-grog title to me. Doesn't mean grogs won't like/love it.

A grog title is a title like WiTP. One that no "Non-grog" could likely ever like or play, and certainly not the average Paradox fan.

The title in question simply has far far broader appeal than that. It's also the reason it can show up on store shelves whereas again these days any "true" grog title could never do that.

Thats just how it is...

[mogami]

Hi, I think the game is very accurate. I really like moving my brigade up to the battle and seeing the actual historic regt on my flank commanded by the actual Brigade commanders. It is not the kind of game where you plan every units movement every turn. You don't even have control of many friendly units and you must execute orders from higher command.

It is a game where you are not "God" controlling the exact movement of your forces. If you can't see the enemy you can't react. If you can't see a friendly unit you must wait for a messanger to ride over and then hope they follow directions. I like the feel of being involved in the battle. I like hex and map games and consider myself a Grognard but this game "feels" like you are part of a civil war battle and that is what I think they intended. I look forward to the time when it has developed to where a player can begin in 1861 and command a Brigade or Division from start to finish. (I don't really play as Corps or Army commander)

I think it will be a gas to play against another human or even as teams.

[ravinhood]

I think there are "levels" of grog. I consider myself part of the grog community I'm an intermediate grog, but, even I don't like WitP type games. I've never liked monster games, time is a big element when I play a wargame. But, I do like both historical AND ahistorical scenarios in games. I also like random maps and random setups, never been a big fan of "simulations" since these basically remain unchanged game after game. When you add variants like random maps or random armies/units then you have variety of the situation. This is where the ahsitorical part comes in. I still want the units to be historically accurate though. I don't want to see tanks in 200bc though. heh Something that can quite often happen in Civilization games.

Also to me a grog game of my type of grog game is a turn based game and doesn't require glitzy graphics. Just sufficient enough to know what the counters are and the map terrain is. Like the Bafflefield games Normany, Italy, Korsun, whatever, I don't require that much glitz in a game. Ron Dockals Schwerpunkt provides sufficient and really more than required to be sufficient to play his game/scenarios. The unit counters are colorful and easy to read while not having to open little popup windows to read all the independent unit information of each different type of unit in the hex. That's just over doing it to me.

I've wanted a D-Day game like AH made where I get the "choice" of landing area and not be confined to always launching the attack from Normandy Beach. We all know what happened from that situation. I'd like to explore other situaltion and invasion areas like AH D-Day gave you.

To me there are catagories of grogs as well. Turn based grogs, RTS grogs, FPSer grogs and then those can be broken down into tactical grogs, strategical grogs, operational grogs and then those broken down into entry level, intermediate and advanced. Cause grogs comes from grognards which means if I recall "grumblers and complainers" and heh we get that in all catagories of wargaming/strategy gaming.

[mogami]

Hi, I am an all levels Grog. I really want games where I do the Operational Level planning on large maps and then shift to smaller maps when a tactical encounter has to be resolved. COG does this.
I like squad level games and monster games like WITP.

[ravinhood]

Yep you're a full blown grog I would say Mogami.

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
I'm an intermediate grog

That works

I've wanted a D-Day game like AH made where I get the "choice" of landing area and not be confined to always launching the attack from Normandy Beach. We all know what happened from that situation. I'd like to explore other situaltion and invasion areas like AH D-Day gave you.

I've tried to argue in the past that any truly historically accurate game would pretty much force you into an exact recreation of historical events. And anything less than that is not historically accurate. So I agree you should be able to do things like your saying. There are those that just like to play a strategy game with historically accurate units and OOB's etc. and there are those that like to have more of a historical simulation. But to many of the later type games do feel awfully repetative and lack variety in play.

One person wrote me recently that his ideal game would be one where "A wargame with AI of its own units and enemy units is so advanced that it will allow you to sit back and simulate a historical event at a detailed tacical level without the player having to do anything. In other words a game that lets you watch a realistic war movie where you choose the subject."

That's definitely one extreme thats in the "historically accurate" camp.

I personally couldn't be further from that though...

[ravinhood]

One person wrote me recently that his ideal game would be one where "A wargame with AI of its own units and enemy units is so advanced that it will allow you to sit back and simulate a historical event at a detailed tacical level without the player having to do anything. In other words a game that lets you watch a realistic war movie where you choose the subject."

Heh, in that respect I'd just as soon be god and be able to travel in time and just watch the real battles unfold as they did. But, the real fun of games, any game for that matter is the individuals control the godlike nature of being in command and "doing as I say" and not as it was historical done. But, some games just don't give you that much leeway to do "as I say" or when they do, they are so one sided and out of historical proportions that it's a rediculous slaughter or over-run of what would never have been possible in the historical situation. That's why I like random maps and setups. There's no history to contradict the outcome. You make the history.

But, games like Paradox's Hoi's make the game laughable in that I can take a minor like Brazil and stomp Italy and parts of Germany without any allied intervention (although I did get some help from Russia taking out Germany). That's where distorting history with an historical classed wargame causes issues with a lot of historical accurate grogs. Playing the minors is more fun and a laugh than playing the actual historical majors. I actually liked the ahistorical value of HOI, I just didn't like having to wait a year and a half for it to be fixed!! It's a fun ahistorical little game to play like Civilization takes a time stop during WWII to me. But, PARADOX still suks to me.

EU II on the other hand was believeable enough because of the time period and at that time anything or anyone could have become prominent with a futuristic mind as my own controlling the situation. heh But, really it too falls out of the historically accurate dept as soon as the human mind takes over a nation. In fact just about all games do to a point. As soon as you move one unit, one division, one corp, whatever differently from what it actually did, it becomes ahistorical. Even so, simulations don't change the scene enough to garner more than a play or two out of them. I wonder how many will play WitP more than a few times? Then I would ask how many have played Combat Mission and/or SPWAW a bunch of times and still continue to play it to this very day?

[Zap]

To take the negative stigma away from the term grog. Some knowlegable person should make a list of identifiable positive characteristics of what a grog might be. So I could then see what level of grog I am, if at all. I probablay am a mixed breed.

To me however, as it was stated above I just want to see the wargame develop and stay healthy

[benpark]

All this is terminology-but here is my definition of what a "grog" wargame is:

-It uses a system (comp or however) to portray a historical battle or conflict, where that system reinforces tactics of the period in gameplay

-It uses this system to portray tactics in a way that keeps the game within the confines of probability for the time portrayed

-It has detail at the service of portraying aspects of actual units involved, and equipment actually utilized for the period.

-It forces/allows the player to approach decisions based on problems presented to commanders of this era/conflict based on the above, as well as acurate representations of the terrain fought over.

-If it has an AI, it fights as it's historical counterpoint might, based on tactics and doctrine of the period.

-It has stats that accurately reflect OOB, weapons and combat outcomes in line with historical facts/outcomes.

It includes, if at the tactical level, formations of the period-accurately.

And so on. The more a game is true to history in these ways, the better in my "grog" book.

In terms of if a person is a "grog"-well, how much history do you read? Probably the more you do-the more of one you are. The more you demand from your games in their fidelity to history, the more "grog"like you probably are.

Anyway-2nd Bull Run passes very well in terms of the above.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: benpark
Anyway-2nd Bull Run passes very well in terms of the above.

You utilize some/several interesting ideas/concepts.

Those you try to define defy your definition.

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: Adam@madminutegames.com

Some folks like RTS...some like Turn-Based...some like WWII only..whatever. The main thing is that Wargames are great fun and there's a flavor for everyone. We started MadMinute Games because we wanted to add more flavor! Wargamers, whether they're Grogs or newbies, need to stick together. There's not that much content out there for the wargamers who love this stuff. We all need to support eachother! Matrix, Battlefront, Paradox, Shrapnel, etc all have games that are great and should be supported if those companies make a game (flavor) that appeals to you.

If it's not yer cup of tea...fine...no worries! But it is to another fellow wargamer! Diversity can be a strength or a huge weakness. Wargames will never see attention by major publishers if we continue to splinter ourselves with bickering and infighting over ridiculous particulars all the while missing the big picture! A house divided cannot stand!

I concur completely. Thanks for joining us in this discussion.

[benpark]

Like Mr. Natural says, Pasternakski "...'twas ever thus".

[pasternakski]

.

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Lava


Actually, Paradox picked them.

Now if you were working 16 hours a day (your regular job plus trying to make a game) and a producer with some muscle offered to change your distribution for online downloads to games in stores.. what would you have done?

If you had kept up on their forums, you would have seen they were even working on Christmas.

These guys need a break to get into the mainstream. Hopefully Paradox's marketing muscle will do that.

Ray (alias Lava)

Lame Lava [8|]

Can care less how hard they work, do you care how hard I have to work to pay for the game

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Lava


They've done that now for almost four years. They have families. Adam a new born. WTF do you expect these people to be SUPERMEN.

I repeat, don't ever complain about the lack of wargame titles.

Ray (alias Lava)

I hope your not their PR

[*Lava*]

ORIGINAL: Sarge

Lame Lava [8|]

Lame?

Here is lame, from MMG's forum:

Sarge
Cannon Fodder

Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:00 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Paradox !

Good luck with their forums, you are going to need it after Paradox track record and general respones to customers on the forums as of resent.

Paroadox over Matrix or Battlefront is just crazy, sure I understand the retail argument. But the support from M or BF is second to none, alone with some of the best run forums in wargamming.

Seems you have an agenda other than wargaming (unless we have a case of misidentity, in which case I apologize).

As for me, no I'm not their PR man. I did some testing on their first game, but these guys work soo hard for this old man.

My main interest is pomoting independent game producers. I'm tired of the SOS, and it's guys like these who bring fresh ideas and innovation to wargaming.

Ray (alias Lava)

[Cap Mandrake]

Jeez. Somebody didnt get enough beauty sleep. (Not you Lava)

I love Civil War era games. Does this thing have co-op play or H2H?


That was the best thing about Sid Meir's Gettysburg (different beast I understand, movement was too gimmicky)

[*Lava*]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Jeez. Somebody didnt get enough beauty sleep. (Not you Lava)

It's that time of the month..

[;)]

Ray (alias Lava)