Level Bombers

[EUBanana]

I've seen them drop 1000lb bombs. I think even Mitchells drop 1000lb bombs on occasion.

I seem to remember it first happening around September 42?

I also think experience at a certain level (70+?) is required, but i'm not sure about that. In any case they seem to drop a mix of 500lb and 1000lb bombs when they do drop them.

1000lbs is enough to mess up a Japanese CA, and thats the main thing. [:D]

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: BPRE

Check out the Mosquito B.XXVI (155)[X(] It's got only one device as load but it's a 4000 lb GP bomb.

Has anyone seen it hit anything (like a ship)?

/BPRE

COOKIE!

I can't wait to see one of those hit a warship. Unfortunately I think the Wooden Wonder arrives too late really to see much action.

[Feinder]

Ollie, I know you're on the boards. In our '45 campain, I think you've got Mossies in Oz. Put a squadron on NavAtk, and I'll send a PG or something down and we can watch it get bombed. I'm guessing a 4000# bomb would vaporize the thing.

-F-

[Capt. Harlock]

B-26A could carry torpedoes (and did so at Midway), 139 build, but they did not work well in that role.

IMHO, they didn't get much chance. Nothing American worked well dropping torpedoes in the first half of 1942. (There were apparently one or two Devastator hits during Coral Sea, but they were lost amid the bomb hits.) From a report I've read, one B-26 made a good torpedo drop on a Japanese CV during Midway, only to have the fish broach out of a large wave and pass above the carrier's flight deck. Some time thereafter, the B-26's were withdrawn to the European theater, since the B-25 was much easier to maintain in tropical ocean climates.

[bradfordkay]

IMHO, they didn't get much chance. Nothing American worked well dropping torpedoes in the first half of 1942. (There were apparently one or two Devastator hits during Coral Sea, but they were lost amid the bomb hits.)


Not true, the Devastator launch on the Shoho was one of the most classic examples of torpedo plane tactics coming to fruition in WW2. According to Lundstrom's The First Team (Naval Institute Press, 1984), Torpedo 2 put five torpedoes into the Shoho...

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

IMHO, they didn't get much chance. Nothing American worked well dropping torpedoes in the first half of 1942. (There were apparently one or two Devastator hits during Coral Sea, but they were lost amid the bomb hits.)

Not true, the Devastator launch on the Shoho was one of the most classic examples of torpedo plane tactics coming to fruition in WW2. According to Lundstrom's The First Team (Naval Institute Press, 1984), Torpedo 2 put five torpedoes into the Shoho...

Getting off on a tangent here - but since I'm the guy who championed increasing range for the TBD last year - I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

The torp attack on the Shoho was the most succsessful such attack 'on a CV' in the entire war.
Torpedo 2 hit her I believe 7 times - of which 5 definately detonated. The skipper of the Shoho (Cpt Izawa Ishinosuke) remarked that she was hit 'by at least 5 torpedos'

[Mike Wood]

Hello...

Having written the code for this, I have some insight into how it works. Bombers carry the outload listed, such as 4x500 lb or 1xtorpedo.

If attacking land based targets, they carry the same thing. Such as 4x500 lb or 1xtorpedo=2x500 lb (the code trades torpedoes for bombs). The aircraft maximum load value is only used for calculation of airfield size needed from which to operate.

If scheduled to carry 500lb GP bombs and if the plane normally carries at least four of them and if the crew has at least the minimum required experience and if the crew makes an experience roll and if the squadron leader makes a skill roll and if the airfield is large enough and if there is enough supply, then the aircraft may exchange each 4x500lb GP bombs for 2x1000lb GP bombs. If the crew has more experience and passes a harder roll and if the base is at least a certain size and has more supply and is carrying at least 4x1000lb GP bomb, then the aircraft may exchange each 4x1000lb GP bombs for 2x2000lb bomb.

Patrol aircraft on naval search commonly carry torpedoes. Those same aircraft, if on anti-submarine patrol exchange those torpedoes for bombs.

Hope this Helps...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: Big B

Gotta question - and I KNOW some of you have the answer...

Did B17s/B24s and B25s/B26s ever carry or have the capability to carry 1,000lb bombs? (obviously they had the lift capacity..)

B

[Big B]

see below

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

Having written the code for this, I have some insight into how it works. Bombers carry the outload listed, such as 4x500 lb or 1xtorpedo.

If attacking land based targets, they carry the same thing. Such as 4x500 lb or 1xtorpedo=2x500 lb (the code trades torpedoes for bombs). The aircraft maximum load value is only used for calculation of airfield size needed from which to operate.

If scheduled to carry 500lb GP bombs and if the plane normally carries at least four of them and if the crew has at least the minimum required experience and if the crew makes an experience roll and if the squadron leader makes a skill roll and if the airfield is large enough and if there is enough supply, then the aircraft may exchange each 4x500lb GP bombs for 2x1000lb GP bombs. If the crew has more experience and passes a harder roll and if the base is at least a certain size and has more supply and is carrying at least 4x1000lb GP bomb, then the aircraft may exchange each 4x1000lb GP bombs for 2x2000lb bomb.

Patrol aircraft on naval search commonly carry torpedoes. Those same aircraft, if on anti-submarine patrol exchange those torpedoes for bombs.

Hope this Helps...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: Big B

Gotta question - and I KNOW some of you have the answer...

Did B17s/B24s and B25s/B26s ever carry or have the capability to carry 1,000lb bombs? (obviously they had the lift capacity..)

B

Well that's definative enough,
what about this below?

ORIGINAL: Big B



So this raises a good question:
... Is land bombardment handled in a different manner...independant of the size of individual bombs? - In other words, when bombing a land target 10,000lbs of payload has the same effect no matter how it was delivered (40x 250lbrs, 10x 1,000lbrs, 20x 500lbrs)

Enquireing minds would really like to know..[&:]

[Mike Wood]

Hello...

Well, "...bombing a land target 10,000lbs of payload..." never occurs.

Bombing land based targets with planes, bombarding them by sea or attacking by land all work the same way, in this regard. Each weapon or bomb makes an individual attack. So, dropping 8x250 lb GP bombs makes 8 attacks and 4x500 lb GP bombs makes 4 stronger attacks. Note that bombers normally carrying 500 lb GP bombs never carry 1000 lb GP or 2000 lb GP bombs when attacking land based targets. Switch to 1000 lb and 2000 lb is only made for naval targets.

Bye...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: Big B
Well that's definative enough,
what about this below?
So this raises a good question:
... Is land bombardment handled in a different manner...independant of the size of individual bombs? - In other words, when bombing a land target 10,000lbs of payload has the same effect no matter how it was delivered (40x 250lbrs, 10x 1,000lbrs, 20x 500lbrs)

Enquireing minds would really like to know..[&:]

[madmickey]

ORIGINAL: Big B



But seriously, shipping aside, does one 1000lbr droped on land do more damage than two 500lbrs?[&:]

I think that 1000 lb AP bombs were used against Nazis sub pen.

[madmickey]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

From a report I've read, one B-26 made a good torpedo drop on a Japanese CV during Midway, only to have the fish broach out of a large wave and pass above the carrier's flight deck.

That must be some wave, how high would the Soho deck be above the sea,

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

Well, "...bombing a land target 10,000lbs of payload..." never occurs.

Bombing land based targets with planes, bombarding them by sea or attacking by land all work the same way, in this regard. Each weapon or bomb makes an individual attack. So, dropping 8x250 lb GP bombs makes 8 attacks and 4x500 lb GP bombs makes 4 stronger attacks. Note that bombers normally carrying 500 lb GP bombs never carry 1000 lb GP or 2000 lb GP bombs when attacking land based targets. Switch to 1000 lb and 2000 lb is only made for naval targets.

Bye...

Michael Wood

So if I changed ...um... B17s in the data base to carry 1000lb bombs (to make sure that they drop 1000lb bombs on ships) - when they bomb a land target, they will use 1000lb bombs (even if it is only 1/2 as many as they would with 500lbrs) and they will do more damage with those 6(?) 1000lb bombs than they would have with 12 500lb bombs.

So changeing their load-out (even though using no greater total weight) does effect land target bombardment performance?

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

If scheduled to carry 500lb GP bombs and if the plane normally carries at least four of them and if the crew has at least the minimum required experience and if the crew makes an experience roll and if the squadron leader makes a skill roll and if the airfield is large enough and if there is enough supply, then the aircraft may exchange each 4x500lb GP bombs for 2x1000lb GP bombs. If the crew has more experience and passes a harder roll and if the base is at least a certain size and has more supply and is carrying at least 4x1000lb GP bomb, then the aircraft may exchange each 4x1000lb GP bombs for 2x2000lb bomb.

Wow, I count seven different "ifs" for 1,000 lb bombs. And five more for 2,000 lb bombs. No wonder you never see them used. Mike, are you sure you remembered all the end-ifs and got them all in the right places?

(Joking, Mike. No response expected. [;)] )

[Feinder]

Cool.

I didn't even know the -could- carry 2000# bombs.

Dave... Parker... Kurt... Y'all better watch out. I'm gonna get me some o' dem...

-F-

[Mike Wood]

Hello...

No. Works out the same. The 500 pounders give twice as many chances to hit, doing one half damage. 2x500 of one or 1x1000 of the other.

Do not recommend change. We did it the way we thought best. But, I wrote the editor for you to make changes, as you might, so go to it, if you like.

Bye...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: Big B

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

Well, "...bombing a land target 10,000lbs of payload..." never occurs.

Bombing land based targets with planes, bombarding them by sea or attacking by land all work the same way, in this regard. Each weapon or bomb makes an individual attack. So, dropping 8x250 lb GP bombs makes 8 attacks and 4x500 lb GP bombs makes 4 stronger attacks. Note that bombers normally carrying 500 lb GP bombs never carry 1000 lb GP or 2000 lb GP bombs when attacking land based targets. Switch to 1000 lb and 2000 lb is only made for naval targets.

Bye...

Michael Wood

So if I changed ...um... B17s in the data base to carry 1000lb bombs (to make sure that they drop 1000lb bombs on ships) - when they bomb a land target, they will use 1000lb bombs (even if it is only 1/2 as many as they would with 500lbrs) and they will do more damage with those 6(?) 1000lb bombs than they would have with 12 500lb bombs.

So changeing their load-out (even though using no greater total weight) does effect land target bombardment performance?

[Mr.Frag]

So if I changed ...um...

Just remember that these special effects are coded to device slots, so when you adjust them, think device adjustment, not just aircraft adjustment or you'll have some unintended effects.

[el cid again]

1,000, 2,000 and 4,000 pound bombs are date set to appear 4112. I think they are carried only on short range, maximum load missions.
I note, for example, a British bomber carried the 4,000 pound bomb on ALL missions too. This is because the database is set for 2x4,000 bombs as the NORMAL bomb load. You want to carry 1,000 pound bombs, set your B-17 NORMAL load to carry them - 5 is correct by the way.

[el cid again]

I think that 1000 lb AP bombs were used against Nazis sub pen.

The sub pens were build with 4 meters (13 feet) of concrete - specifically to defeat all normal bombs. Worked too. A 1000 pould bomb would have no meaningful effect on a sub pen. 16,000 pound bombs were used. Some HQ had even more protection - and most the pens and all the HQ survived the war. Some places the Germans used strange looking "towers" with pointed tops - NO bomb could hurt them. ANY bomb would glance off the point!

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

So if I changed ...um...

Just remember that these special effects are coded to device slots, so when you adjust them, think device adjustment, not just aircraft adjustment or you'll have some unintended effects.

Not quite sure I follow you here...which special effects? I know that each 'device' has it's own slot - didn't know there was hard code for those slots though.

All I want to do is be able to ensure that heavy bombers or medium bombers will carry 1000lbrs for anti-shipping missions - I don't want to muck-up their ground attack and make them 'uber'.

B