Protect Our Grammar!!!!!

[carnifex]

I don't know how to use a PM.

Also, Malthaussen told me to tell you not to start sentences with "But". It's not proper grammar.

[rich12545]

PM stands for private message. If you want to continue this conversation, go to address book above, click on pm and it then is self explanatory.

[carnifex]

Seems like a lot of trouble to tell you something I can tell you right here, no?

[kev_uk]

I think rich12545 should have PM'ed Mal and kept his foot out of this discussion *before* telling others he does not want a flame war. Pot, meet kettle.

[rich12545]

LOL. Since Mal originally made his comments public instead of sending a pm to those he felt butchered the English language, I felt I had the same right. So, no, I don't believe pot meeeting kettle applies here.

[rich12545]

Seems like a lot of trouble to tell you something I can tell you right here, no?

Uh, no. The idea is to not have a flame war on the company's forum.

[kev_uk]

Yes but this thread has degenerated into a flame war from your post, whereas it seemed quite harmless originally...
Enough is enough I say,
Regards
Kevin

[rich12545]

Yes, I agree. That's why, in my original post, I asked for any comments to be sent to me by pm. I was afraid this might happen. But still, I was appalled by the original post putting down others for a perceived lack of skill using English that I felt like writing.

[carnifex]

oh no don't worry rich Matrix doesn't care as long as you use the proper signage

[rich12545]

That's a good one.

But I know from personal experience that Matrix really does care.

[carnifex]

aha! so you have been sanctioned for flaming!

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[rich12545]

Heh, well let's just say my name has come up in the past.

[malthaussen]

Sorry I missed all the fun.

Since certain allegations have been made publicly, it would be best to address them publicly, rather than via PM as Rich requests.

Rich12545 complains that my attitude was "condescending" and that my objective was to embarass. He later claims I accused members of this forum of "butchering" the English language.

Nowhere do I make such an accusation. The term "butchering" was used by TexHorns in response to my post. I later mentioned a friend of mine who butchers -- but did not state or imply that anyone here does so.

As far as Rich's perception of my attitude and objective, clearly these are interpretive issues and are therefore his problem, not mine.

It should have been obvious from certain of my content (e.g., the banging of a shoe on the table) that my tongue was in my cheek when I initiated this thread. Certainly, that is how everyone else who responded appears to have perceived things. I'm surprised Rich took offense, but we all have our little quirks.

I thought TexHorn's point was interesting, and I'd like to address it. English is, of course, a living language, and it mutates rapidly as new words come into currency and old ones pass out of fashion. And there are certainly a number of different regional variations in word meaning and grammar. Does this mean, therefore, as Tex suggests, that "proper English" doesn't even exist? Or is there, in any event, at least a Platonic ideal of the language which has its own life and beauty, nevermind rules and regulations? And who really cares, anyway, LOL?

Insofar as the vocabulary of the language is concerned, there is no "absolute" English, unless we define that "absolute" as embracing all words, even hideous ones like "normalcy" and "alot." As far as the rules of grammar are concerned, however, there is certainly an "absolute" English, even though few of us (myself not included) use it properly at all times. As for who really cares... ah, there's the rub. One might argue that grammar and vocabulary are irrelevant as long as we can get our message across, and that being a stickler for such things shows a marked degree of anal-retentiveness, if not a psychotic obsession with minutinae. After all, our lives hardly hinge on the proper use of "who" and "whom" (and a damned good thing, too). One might further argue that anyone who makes an issue of such... issues... is a "language Nazi" or trying to put others down by insulting their ignorance. I shouldn't have to point out that both of these arguments are interpretive ones, and therefore tell us more about the plaintiff than the defendant, but I will anyway. The bottom line, in any event, is that it only matters if you think it does. In this, it is like many things in life.

It strikes me as odd, somewhat, that one should have to come up with reasons why we should strive to use our language correctly. Most of us try to do most things right, so far as it lies within our power. Some of us even glory in being "perfectionists," and in trying to do everything right, as though this sets us apart from the common herd, who are presumably satisfied with second best. Yet when it comes to language, it seems that the rules are optional, that "good enough" is good enough, and that it is an insult to be corrected in one's usage, however egregious that usage might be. I wonder why this is so?

-- Mal

[TexHorns]

See what you started Mal?[;)]

You asked or stated several times in your fine response, "Who really cares?" Well you know what? More people than you probably imagine. How many of us with small children or even adolescents strive to teach them to use proper grammer when they speak? So although tongue in cheek we make light of the use of language. Deep down we don't want our children to grow up sounding like they just came down out of the hills of Arkansas or the backwoods of Oklahoma.

Let me point out that the above reference was not intended to offend anyone except those from Arkansas and Oklahoma. As a Texan I have to keep the border wars alive.

I gotta git now. We are fixin' to go to baseball practice and we're gonna have to git on the feeder road, which means dealin' with traffic.

[Husard]

I cannot believe what i am reading here. For Starters i want to say that i only had 3 years of english so i really dont care if this is proper or butchered english [;)]
Don't you guys have other things to discuss than this "kindergarten" crap about who said what to whom [&:]

Regards
Husard