Heavy Industried Points dropped

[hawker]

1. I really dont think so, lots of shipping around even if you dont use them wisely. I am in July of 42. My Japan is fully stocked with Oil and Resources from the SRA. I'm in the middle of a 6 Division push into the South Pacific with all that entails. I still have AK/APs sitting in ports waiting for work. I realize that as the war goes on I will lose ships to subs but by then I will no longer have such a great need of them for offensive operations.
2. Dont build what you dont need. See #1.
3. So true but they dont cost anything either. When they reach the ETA point of costing you points just halt them. Now they are not too far out if you do need some.
4. He has 40K with of points sitting there doing mostly nothing. Currently, his HI pool is lower than his daily production of HI. Bet those 40K of Merchant Shipyard points would come in mighty handy now.

1. I am in late 42 in one PBEM and in the end of 1943 in other. All my ships are engaged in various duties.
2. See above
3. See above

My point of view is that everyone has diferent numbers when came to AP/AK. I want them more,you want them less,everything depends on playing stile. So-no big deal.
If he halts overstocked planes he will builsd up industry also.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior

hmm all this brings to mind that maybe the Japanese ships are maybe too large capacity wise. Historically japan was rather bad off for cargo ships, and that is even beofre the Allied sub blitz.

Is it that there was a shortage of ship or that they were used ineffeciently? There were Army ship and Navy ships and they wouldn't help each other. Many went one direction or the other empty when the other branch had stuff to haul.

[hawker]

1.Halt some Mitsubishi engines,you dont need that much.
2.Check every single AC you producing and halt some AC factories.
3.How many vals,kates you have in pool?If you have arround 200 halt production.
4.Halt Shinano and RO subs
5.When 1945 CVs come in production-halt them
6.Dont upgrade HI
7.Slightly upgrade naval shipyards
8.Accelerate Taiho

I follow this and my industry is just fine[;)]

[Dereck]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior

hmm all this brings to mind that maybe the Japanese ships are maybe too large capacity wise. Historically japan was rather bad off for cargo ships, and that is even beofre the Allied sub blitz.

Is it that there was a shortage of ship or that they were used ineffeciently? There were Army ship and Navy ships and they wouldn't help each other. Many went one direction or the other empty when the other branch had stuff to haul.

From a source I have (which I can quote for you later when I get home if you want), the Japanese cargo ships were generally only capable of carrying half the capacity of American ones. They were also unable to load and unload their cargo ships as fast as the Americans were.

[aletoledo]

that 13531 in the screenshot looks normal to me. that other 41,000 number must have been spurious.

[George Patton]

ORIGINAL: pauk

what other said...

you have more than enough merchant shipyard - you can accelerate some AR and MLE ships (you are building these ships, right?) and stop some merchant shipyards.

Be careful with Mitsubishi engines - i think you will need them in the future so it's always better to expand small Nakajima factories (as irrelevant said)

stop Vals and Kates - you have more than enough...and that is certainly better than stoping the engines - they are money in the bank....

I'm still confused why you have so little HI points in the pool - the only thing that i can imagine is that you are short of oil in your industry centers (HK, Hanoi, Saigon, Singapore , Taiwan and Home Islands...)

Ok.
I stopped production of Vals and Kates.
Yes I have some AR (ex-AK) in production.
The problem is that the HI dropped from 9500 to 4755...
I have enough oil in Japan. In Hanoi, Singapore and Saigon not too much, around 1200. But I don't think I need it more.
I had accelerate production of CV Hiyo and Taiyo. Now I set up as normal production. Shinano is halted since the beginning.

[tsimmonds]

I think you may be building too many a/c and engines. Your screenie shows you building 1543 engines per month, and using 1505 engines per month. This is a total of 54,864 HI per month. I'm not in front of the game, but this strikes me as high, possibly as much as 50% higher than what I am doing in my current game. That would be 18,000 HI, or about 600/day.

Course my memory is lousy....maybe someone else could look at theirs.

[tsimmonds]

Yes I have some AR (ex-AK) in production.... I had accelerate production of CV Hiyo and Taiyo. Now I set up as normal production. Shinano is halted since the beginning.

Building ships does not use HI. Building ships uses shipbuilding points. Creating shipbuilding points is what uses HI.

[tsimmonds]

You have 13531 HI centers, and 9381 HI points in your pool.

You are building 784 armaments (4704 HI/day), 181 vehicles (1086 HI/day), 1174 Naval SBP (3522 HI/day), 1000 Merchant SBP (3000 HI/day), 1543 engines (926 HI/day), and 1144 a/c requiring 1513 engines (908 HI/day). This adds up to 14,046 HI/day expended. You are 515 HI in the hole every day. You should turn some stuff off, perhaps some multi-engine aircraft, some vehicles and some armaments.

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. Charles Dickens

[George Patton]

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

You have 13531 HI centers, and 9381 HI points in your pool.

You are building 784 armaments (4704 HI/day), 181 vehicles (1086 HI/day), 1174 Naval SBP (3522 HI/day), 1000 Merchant SBP (3000 HI/day), 1543 engines (926 HI/day), and 1144 a/c requiring 1513 engines (908 HI/day). This adds up to 14,046 HI/day expended. You are 515 HI in the hole every day. You should turn some stuff off, perhaps some multi-engine aircraft, some vehicles and some armaments.

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. Charles Dickens

This is very interesting.
But why don't expand some HI industry?
And which armament I don't need?
For the aircraft I could stop the H6K2-L Mavis production. I have 52 in the pool and for now it could be enough. And also the Ki-54 Hickory (143 in the pool).

[pauk]

aaaagrrrhh!

Hickory is useless. Stop them and later you can convert them to other types. If memory serves me well, you can upgrade hickory to other transport plane type even if you dont play with PDU.

[tsimmonds]

you can upgrade hickory to other transport plane type

Not in stock scenario 15 you can't.

But why don't expand some HI industry?

You could do that. But just like all other factories, you have to pay. Each new factory point costs 100 supply, 1 Manpower and 1 HI. Then, the new HI factories will be damaged. To repair them you will have to have at least 10,000 supply in the hex, the cost is 1000 supply per HI point, and you can repair a maximum of one point per day. Pretty expensive, and not so helpful in the short term.

And which armament I don't need?

Armament factories create generic armaments points. Vehicle factories create generic vehicle points. Each of these goes into its pool (that is the number in brackets next to the number of factories in your totals list. Your pools had 13760 armaments and 62 vehicles points when you took the screenie). These points are used to create squads and devices as they are called for by LCUs. LCUs need these points when they first appear as reinforcements, and also if you have replacements turned on. The fact that you have lots of factories and not so many points in the pools tells me that you have replacements turned on globally. You may want to re-think this. Not only does it use up large amounts of armaments/vehicles (and also manpower), it also burns supply when units absorb replacement points.

[Mike Solli]

My PBEM is in late Mar 42. Here are some of my stats:

-Engines: 1621 (will go up a bit more, maybe to 1640)
-Aircraft assembly: 827 (Hasn't gone up for a long time.) Even so, I've still shut off some factories. Plenty of planes.
-Vehicles: 104 and steady. (Points currently at 718. It fluctuates but I don't see a problem.)
Armament: 533 and steady. (Points currently at 26584. Drops a bit when a division arrives but usually hangs around 27k.)
HI: 13632 and steady. (Points at 94119 and rising 500-1000 per day.)

I track these all of my production numbers daily. I have a record from 7 Dec 41. It's all color coded, green = rising, yellow = steady, red = declining. I take production seriously. I turn factories off and on as need be. (Now that part is subjective.)[:D]

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: George Patton

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

You have 13531 HI centers, and 9381 HI points in your pool.

You are building 784 armaments (4704 HI/day), 181 vehicles (1086 HI/day), 1174 Naval SBP (3522 HI/day), 1000 Merchant SBP (3000 HI/day), 1543 engines (926 HI/day), and 1144 a/c requiring 1513 engines (908 HI/day). This adds up to 14,046 HI/day expended. You are 515 HI in the hole every day. You should turn some stuff off, perhaps some multi-engine aircraft, some vehicles and some armaments.

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. Charles Dickens

This is very interesting.
But why don't expand some HI industry?
And which armament I don't need?
For the aircraft I could stop the H6K2-L Mavis production. I have 52 in the pool and for now it could be enough. And also the Ki-54 Hickory (143 in the pool).

I think you have too much armament factories. I have myself only 600 in July 1942 and is expanding to 675, and my armament pool is still growing. OK 80% of my units have orders to not receive replacements at any time but they don't need them.

Same for AC, you produce too much of them in my own opinion, Japan can't afford to lose 1000 AC per month in 1942. Stop the production of primary AC where stock is over 400 (A6M2, Ki-21, Ki-48, Ki-43 and so on) and of secondary AC where stock is over 100 (all transports, floatplanes and so on). I'm sure you have thousand of AC in stock already. Of course set the number you want too (52 H6K-L are far enough, both units using the type can be destroyed at 100% twice...)

Stopping 100 of your armament factory will resolve your problem of too much HI spent and not enough produced. But you lost too much in one month so you have another problem.

By the way I think the Hickory is only useful to give points to your opponent... it hasn't the range to do anything useful...

Ressources are used by HI and by manpower centers (5 points each) so you are still using more ressources than you produce each day. If you only ship oil to Japan, or ship nothing there, it is far possible that some of your HI centers are no more producing at all.

Check the ressource/situation of your various centers in Japan (may lack ressource or oil) and elsewhere (may lack oil). In April if you didn't ship oil to Formosa, the island has no more (local production is not enough) and is producing only a portion of what it can.

Expanding HI will not resolve your problem in time and cost you supplies, where you are already low for the date considered IMOO. And your HI is allready (a bit) too big for the ressources at your disposal.

The short-term solution is to stop producing everything you don't need. The long-term solution is to produce more ressources (either by conquest or repair) and expand your HI.

[George Patton]

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent



I think you have too much armament factories. I have myself only 600 in July 1942 and is expanding to 675, and my armament pool is still growing. OK 80% of my units have orders to not receive replacements at any time but they don't need them.

Same for AC, you produce too much of them in my own opinion, Japan can't afford to lose 1000 AC per month in 1942. Stop the production of primary AC where stock is over 400 (A6M2, Ki-21, Ki-48, Ki-43 and so on) and of secondary AC where stock is over 100 (all transports, floatplanes and so on). I'm sure you have thousand of AC in stock already. Of course set the number you want too (52 H6K-L are far enough, both units using the type can be destroyed at 100% twice...)

Stopping 100 of your armament factory will resolve your problem of too much HI spent and not enough produced. But you lost too much in one month so you have another problem.

By the way I think the Hickory is only useful to give points to your opponent... it hasn't the range to do anything useful...

Ressources are used by HI and by manpower centers (5 points each) so you are still using more ressources than you produce each day. If you only ship oil to Japan, or ship nothing there, it is far possible that some of your HI centers are no more producing at all.

Check the ressource/situation of your various centers in Japan (may lack ressource or oil) and elsewhere (may lack oil). In April if you didn't ship oil to Formosa, the island has no more (local production is not enough) and is producing only a portion of what it can.

Expanding HI will not resolve your problem in time and cost you supplies, where you are already low for the date considered IMOO. And your HI is allready (a bit) too big for the ressources at your disposal.

The short-term solution is to stop producing everything you don't need. The long-term solution is to produce more ressources (either by conquest or repair) and expand your HI.

Mercy Amiral for your response.
So, I made this adjustement.
I've shut down:

1) A6M2 production. I have 408 in the pool. In the next 71 days I'll receive 6 Daitai for a total of 162. I have enough of them also for the replacements. [production were 130+58 in Gumma, 40 Harbin, 8 Nagasaki, 78 Okayama, 40 Tokyo, 6 Toyama]
2) Val production. 440 in the pool. 50 prod in Nagoya and 64 in Tokyo.
3) Kate prduction. 346 in the pool. 48 prod in Hiroshima and 32 in Nagoya.
4) Ki-46II Dinah. 236 in the pool. 62 prod in Nagoya
5) F1M2 Pete. 150 in the pool. 23 prod in Sasebo
6) Ki-54 Hickory. 149 in the pool. 32 prod in Tokyo
7) E13A1 Jake. 114 in the pool. 8 prod in Hakodate, 3 in Hiroshima and 20 in Kitakyushu
8) I shut down all the Mitsubishi engine factory. For some days I'll keep them halted, hoping my HI will grow again. After I will convert a couple of them in Nakajima. I need more Naka engines.

For the armament factory I'll wait a bit, until I see if this adjustement will change the situation. My divisions come from a lot of fighting and they need a lot of replacement. I have also to fight against the soviet.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: George Patton

Mercy Amiral for your response.
So, I made this adjustement.
I've shut down:

1) A6M2 production. I have 408 in the pool. In the next 71 days I'll receive 6 Daitai for a total of 162. I have enough of them also for the replacements. [production were 130+58 in Gumma, 40 Harbin, 8 Nagasaki, 78 Okayama, 40 Tokyo, 6 Toyama]
2) Val production. 440 in the pool. 50 prod in Nagoya and 64 in Tokyo.
3) Kate prduction. 346 in the pool. 48 prod in Hiroshima and 32 in Nagoya.
4) Ki-46II Dinah. 236 in the pool. 62 prod in Nagoya
5) F1M2 Pete. 150 in the pool. 23 prod in Sasebo
6) Ki-54 Hickory. 149 in the pool. 32 prod in Tokyo
7) E13A1 Jake. 114 in the pool. 8 prod in Hakodate, 3 in Hiroshima and 20 in Kitakyushu
8) I shut down all the Mitsubishi engine factory. For some days I'll keep them halted, hoping my HI will grow again. After I will convert a couple of them in Nakajima. I need more Naka engines.

For the armament factory I'll wait a bit, until I see if this adjustement will change the situation. My divisions come from a lot of fighting and they need a lot of replacement. I have also to fight against the soviet.

1) I'd stop production for awhile. Start it back up when it's down to about 150 or so.
2) Stop production until it's down to 150-200.
3) Stop production until it's down to 150-200.
4) Stop production. You have plenty. You can always restart if you need more.
5) Convert this factory to something else. They have an extended range of 2! They're fine for ASW but little else.
6) Convert this factory to something else. They are useless.
7) Convert these factories. Alf and Glen are the only PFs you need to produce.
8) I would shut off the above factories before stopping the Mitsubishi factories. You'll need the engines later.

[George Patton]

Thanks for the suggestion. I stopped also the armament factory production of Tokyo (150 armament).
I'll see next turn how I will go. Last turn I was with HI at 2823 !!

[Mike Solli]

Building up your manpower, HI, armament and vehicle points and engines is a good thing. Once they are built, the Allied player can't hurt them. Build them up as much as possible early on so your industry can function longer after your supply lines are cut for good.

[George Patton]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Building up your manpower, HI, armament and vehicle points and engines is a good thing. Once they are built, the Allied player can't hurt them. Build them up as much as possible early on so your industry can function longer after your supply lines are cut for good.

But at which level I have to build them up? When I can say, ok, it's enough?

[Mike Solli]

For the things I listed, I don't have a limit. I track all those stats and ensure they go up a bit each day. Sure some of them go down occasionally, but on average they go up.