Land movement between islands & mountains in China (Revised after testing)

[el cid again]

First, between some islands movement is easier than to cross a major river. See for example Leyte and Samar, one of my specific proposals.
To say a unit CANNOT cross is physically false - and I don't care what operational effects it may have. We are modeling history, not trying to make it hard for the offense or defense.


If this is true then I certainly agree with the change. But the hexside should be made to be a river crossing hexside.

I like this idea. How do you do that? I don't see "river" in the terrain codes listing at the top of PWHex. A "navigable river" is simply one where both hexes have the common hex side defined as "coast." What defines a river that is not navigable? Note that between Leyte and Samar the water is NOT navigable to deep draft and in our game NO ships are allowed to pass - it really is a river like thing - but it is not defined as such. It is more or less a hex side that does not permit EITHER land units or ships to pass.

[el cid again]

Again, if this is true and we are talking about essentially 'crossing a river that happens to be connected to the sea at both ends', then I am in favor of the change (provided the hexside is made to be a river crossing).

I see no evidence there is a "river crossing" hexside as such. It may be there is a cost to move between certain hex types. Do you understand the mechanics of a "river crossing" situation? How is it defined? I regard this as a very good concept - if it exists in our software.

[el cid again]

The only advantages to the attacker (that I believe he was pointing out) is that - without being able to cross - the attacker must use naval transports that are modelled in-game and subject to loss, and the attacker would also be subject to disruption upon landing. With land-to-land movement those penalties go away.

For which the attacker pays in time - and this ONLY at points where such crossings are possible. I like the idea of making this very slow - at first I proposed trails - until I realized that NON-trail crossings are slower still.
If there is a slower "river crossing" rate I would prefer it as well. I think this is superior to the present solution. [Else I would not propose it.]

[el cid again]

Although with the current land model a 'river' crossing would initiate the dreaded shock attack...which is initiated with a landing.

How is this known? And is it reasonable? I guess it does sort of simulate the greater risk of casualties when crossing a river.

[el cid again]

A good example of a needed house rule (with unrestricted commands): units politically restricted to Australia, PI, DEI, etc. are stuck within their area (unless the PP are payed to change them to a different command) but they can be moved around via air or sea transport if the destination is within their area.

I know that some disagree, but I feel having unrestricted commands with (needed) house rules is better than having restricted commands.

This was my first impression, and this discussion is only confirming it. Nevertheless, I feel that movement between certain islands is needed INDEPENDENT of the restricted command issue - because it is more true than no land movement between those points.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Although with the current land model a 'river' crossing would initiate the dreaded shock attack...which is initiated with a landing.

How is this known? And is it reasonable? I guess it does sort of simulate the greater risk of casualties when crossing a river.

So have you played the WitP program sold by Matrix yet? When a unit crosses a river hexside and enters a hex occupied by an enemy unit a shock attack is triggered. In addition, IIRC it does not matter whether friendly troops are already present in the hex or not a shock attack will still be triggered if an enemy unit is present and a unit enters the hex by crossing a river.

[witpqs]

Sid,

I do not know the inner workings of the PWHEX.DAT file, so I am unable to tell you how to define a river. However, if you are already working with the innards of the file then I have an idea. Look at some of the rivers in Burma, for example, and see how they are defined in the file. Hopefully that will show the necessary definitions.

And, Treespider is right. Crossing a river into a hex with an enemy unit causes a shock attack on the part of the crossing units. That was implemented several patches ago, you must have missed it. The only exception (I think this is true) is if the destination hex is yours, and has a base, and you own the base. The shock attack is appropriate for some circumstances, maybe not for others. All in all things are a little better having it, even though sometimes it's a pain.

[el cid again]

So have you played the WitP program sold by Matrix yet?

Yes - but I have never crossed a river to attack. Unless that is what happens when I attack Hong Kong or Singapore (or get attacked in them).
I don't remember this in UV either.

I attempted to play the game just to learn how it worked - vs AI. I was horrified by the many errors I could see in ship data - something I tend to have in my head. I set out to fix them before playing a "serious" game.

I think I like this rule. I also think it may be better than just a land crossing between islands. HOW do you define a river so this happens? I thought rivers were just art. If they are real I love it.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: el cid again

First, between some islands movement is easier than to cross a major river. See for example Leyte and Samar, one of my specific proposals.
To say a unit CANNOT cross is physically false - and I don't care what operational effects it may have. We are modeling history, not trying to make it hard for the offense or defense.

If this is true then I certainly agree with the change. But the hexside should be made to be a river crossing hexside.

That is how I depict the crossings between Shikoku-Honshu, and Kyushu-Honshu on my maps. As river crossings. The tricky part is making sure that the sealanes between the islands remain navigable.

Andrew

PS: Edited typo.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

So have you played the WitP program sold by Matrix yet?

Yes - but I have never crossed a river to attack. Unless that is what happens when I attack Hong Kong or Singapore (or get attacked in them).
I don't remember this in UV either.

I attempted to play the game just to learn how it worked - vs AI. I was horrified by the many errors I could see in ship data - something I tend to have in my head. I set out to fix them before playing a "serious" game.

I think I like this rule. I also think it may be better than just a land crossing between islands. HOW do you define a river so this happens? I thought rivers were just art. If they are real I love it.

Using AAwulf's WitPExcel i imagine you define the hex as coast and the hexside you want as a river- a river and the other hexsides as appropriate.

[el cid again]

The codes in the PWHex notes say that 4 is a river hexside. You may define a hexside as coast OR river, but not both, since there is only one value in the cell for any given hexside. However, Andrew has another way - you can define the same hexside as "coast" in BOTH hexes and then it is a "de facto" river - only navigable like the sea!
By being creative in many cases with OTHER hex sides of the same hex, you can allow naval movement "through" a narrows and STILL define a particular hex side as a "river". This is getting good.

[el cid again]

Andrew wrote (privately) that the reason he allows land movement between Honshu and Shikoku was to simulate local marine communications. While there is a bridge today, there was not in WWII, and he knew that. His reasoning is the same I propose to use for other points. Stock does this for Hong Kong - technically an island connected by ferries to the mainland. What if we make the rule that this is only done when there is a local, established, civil, ferry infrastructure? This would affect places like Pescadores-Tainan, Luzon-Samar, Java-Bali, Java-Sumatra, Banka Island-Palembang, and Leyte-Samar. I do not mean that a long distance ferry will do (as in Alaska), but a short haul, several times an hour (many boats in service) ferry).

[witpqs]

I figured that you were talking about that as well as lots of local private/commercial transport available for comandeering, plus a body of water suitable for whatever organic transport a unit might have available (river crossing stuff).

Makes sense to me.

[el cid again]

IIRC the Dutch and ABDA did not recall or consolidate their farflung forces into the Soerbaja Redoubt. Hence why the designer included political points...

Actually, I don't think that is the design intent. Political points are intended allow you to move units to ANOTHER region, not between islands in your own area. I suspect that if you assign to a distant command you will not gain benefits from that HQ until you move nearer to it - and you will lose benefits from the one you used to be assigned to.

Also, I believe units DID move between islands. The Philippine Army was raised to defend its local districts. But when war seemed to be coming, fully HALF (3 out of 6 divisions) in the Visaya's were moved to Luzon - and ultimately ended up in the "Bataan redoubt" - exactly as you think didn't happen on Java.

In a game, why could the allies NOT choose to move things to the Soerabaja redoubt? Would it be a bad strategy? I myself see a different strategy - start up in Sumatra defending Palembang - and fall back across the strait into Java - then down the island chain to Bali, Lombok, Flores, fighting all the way. Being a modern soldier I am trained to retreat rather than stand and die before a superior force. It is not clear that this would work well - but why not allow a player to attempt it? Is it the designer's place to FORBID reasonable strategies? I think not.

Frankly I think the restrictions of restricted commands are far too severe - and very ahistorical. NEI and Philippines have actual dedicated fleets - and it is preposterous IMHO to say they cannot move troops. How did troops ever get to those distant points in the first place? It is also dangerous to move them - their ships and planes might be shot at - and slow movement across straits might easily be overtaken even by a slow task force. It is one thing to say "there is no railroad across these straits - as there is between Kyushu and Honshu (by tunnel)" and another to say they cannot move even with weeks of warning. I am afraid to mess too much with the command system until I understand it better.
So I believe this mechanism is a small step in the direction of giving the Allies more flexability in the defense (up front) - and Japan later on.

Upon analysis, I find there actually were places on the map where movement across water barriers is allowed - including the amazing Yangze at Nanking - between Kyushu and Honshu - between Shikoku and Honshu - between Hong Kong and the mainland - between Singapore and the mainland. I note a pattern to these cases: movement is fast and easy ONLY when there is a bridge/causeway (singapore), tunnel (to Kyushu), a major ferry system (Hong Kong) or a minor ferry system (Shikoku). So I will follow this procedure - and add a still more limited case - one where there is NO communications but a narrow barrier (as in a couple of cases in the Visayas). To cross with no aid what amounts to a river is correct for those cases. Otherwise, we will restricte movement to the sort of communications that exists - in most cases it will end up like the Shikoku Case - very slow compared to a railroad or highway connection. This means that troops can move between Seattle, Victoria and Vancouver - but not like they are driving - for example. Hawaii is a case I may ignore: it is not a restricted command area, and adjacent ports do feed supplies automatically. Troops can fly or sail on real planes or ships, so I see no big reason to mess with the map there for a marginal ferry service.

Other terrain corrections are adding two points in India, two in China, one in Russia, several in the Philippines, and maybe some other cases. The Russia case is at the mouth of the Amur - to solve a supply problem. The Chinese cases are also to solve supply issues and create real air bases - including a famous one. India needs the bases it really raised its air force at. I might add Saiki - the NE hex of Kyushu - but maybe not this round. Japan is pretty well organized with that one exception - and a need to ferry to Hokkaido form Honshu across the Tsugaru Straits.

[el cid again]

This list shows hexes which are added new, renamed, or moved to a different slot in the location file. It ALSO shows PROPOSED changes to hex sides.

Location Name Slot ID Xcoord Ycoord Map Panel Comments
Angeles/Clark 609 43 51 6 Done Malaria Free Major Airfield Hex
Aomori 349 69 38 2 done High Capacity Ferry to Hakkodate
Aparri/Tuquegarao 610 45 49 6 Checked Luzon Beach and Minor Port Hex
Bacolod/Iloilo 623 43 56 6 Done Low Capacity Ferry to Kalibo; River to SE
Baguio/Balinta Pass 511 44 50 6 Done Malaria Free Resource Hex
Bako [Pescadores] 363 47 44 6 Done High Capacity Ferry to Takao & Taichu
Bandjermasin 529 27 64 5 Done Incorrect rating of trail as road
Bankha [Sumatra] 509 20 47 Cked and 5 Done Narrow Gage Railway
Banyuwangi [Java] 586 24 68 5 Done-Done High Capacity Ferry to Denpasar (Bali)
Batan Islands 639 46 47 6 Checked Minor Island North of Luzon
Batao [Tawitawi] 640 38 59 6 Done Minor Island SW of Jolo & Mindinao
Belitung Island 570 22 57 Coast to West [toward Toboali]
Borongan [Samar] 624 46 56 6 Done
Butuan [Mndno] 601 44 59 6 Checked
Cagayan [Mndno] 602 43 59 6 Done
Catarman [Samar] 625 45 55 6 Done Low Capacity Ferry to Legaspi & Masbate
Cebu [Cebu] 626 43 57 6 Done Low Capacity Ferry to Dumaguet, Roxas & Ormoc
Coal Harbor 306 130 37 OK Low Capacity Ferry Link to Vancouver
Cochin 325 12 19 0 Done Air Unit Formation Point
Cotabatao [Mndno] 603 43 60 6 Checked
Davao [Mndno] 600 43 61 6 Checked
Denpasar [Bali] 553 24 69 5 Done-Done Low Capacity Ferry Banyuwangi & Lombok
Dipilog [Mndno] 604 43 58 6 Done
Dumaguet [Negros] 627 42 57 6 Done Low Capacity Ferry to Cebu; River to E
Dunapur 459 35 25 Change Rail art to Road art.
Fukuoka 340 59 41 High Capacity Ferry to Tsushima
Gen Santos [Mndno] 605 42 61 6 Checked
Hakodate 341 69 37 2 done High Capacity Ferry to Aomori
Hilo [Hawaii] 844 116 74 8 Done Done Change road art from SW to SE hex side.
Ilagan [Luzon] 611 45 50 6 Checked Interior Resource Hex
Jolo [Jolo] 641 39 59 6 Done Low Capacity Ferry to Zamboanga
Jorhat 458 36 25 Change Rail art to Road art.
Kalaibo [Panay] 628 42 55 6 Done High Capacity Ferry to Bacolod/Iloilo
Komsomolsk 872 71 27 1 Done LCF to Nikolaevsk na Amur
Kan Hsien 371 45 39 6 Done ROC Air Base Hex
Kiungshan [Hainan] 425 39 41 OK High Capacity Ferry to Xuwen
Kona [Hawaii] 843 115 75 8 Done Done Change road art from NE to E hex side.
Kuala [Sumatra] 506 20 43 5 Road Done Narrow Gage Railway
Laoag [Luzon] 612 45 48 6 Checked Luzon Beach and Minor Port Hex
Ledo 454 37 25 Change Rail art to Road art.
Legaspi/Sorosgon 613 45 54 6 Done Done High Capacity Ferry to Catarman
Lingayen [Luzon] 614 43 50 6 Checked Luzon Beach and Minor Port Hex
Lucena [Luzon] 615 43 53 6 Done Luzon Beach and Minor Port Hex
Maasin [Leyte] 629 44 57 6 Done Low Capacity Ferry to Suragao & Tacloban
Makale/Popolo 547 32 68 6 Checked Minor Port & Airfield on Celebes
Mamburao [Mindoro] 630 42 53 6 Done Minor Port & Airfield on Mindoro
Manila/Cavite 616 43 52 6 Checked Malaria Free Resource Hex
Masbate [Masbate] 631 44 55 6 Done Low Capacity Ferry to Catarman
Mataram [Lombok] 554 25 70 5 Done-Done Low Capacity Ferry to Bali & to 26, 71 (Sumbawa)
Mauban/Lemon Bay 617 44 52 6 Done Luzon Beach and Minor Port Hex
Medan [Sumatra] 507 20 45 5 Road Done Narrow Gage Railway
Memboro [Sumba] 557 26 73 5 Done Low Capacity Ferry to Raba
Merak/Serang 535 19 59 5 Done-Done High Capacity Ferry to Toloekbetoeng
Muntok [Banka] 515 21 55 5 Done-Done High Capacity Ferry to Palembang
Naga/Pili/Daet 618 44 53 6 Checked Minor Ports and/or Airfields on Luzon
Naha [Okinawa] 661 54 46 6 Done Road to East
Nikolaevsk na Amur 335 76 26 2 done Low Capacity Ferry to Okha and Komsomolsk
Nogo [Okinawa] 652 55 46 6 Done Road to West
Oita/Saeki 360 60 42 6 Done New Location
Okha 334 76 27 2 done Low Capacity Ferry to Nikolaevsk na Amur
Olangapo/Bataan 619 42 51 6 Checked Fortified Naval Base Hex
Ominato 350 70 38 Rail conforms with map art
Ormoc [Leyte] 632 44 56 6 Done Low Cap Ferry to Cebu & Tacloban; Coast to East
Padang [Sumatra] 508 18 51 5 Done Change Trail to Road (Narrow gage coal RR)
Palembang 516 20 55 5 Done High Capacity Ferry to Muntok
Pamekasan [Mdra] 541 24 66 5 Done-Done High Capacity Ferry to Soerabaja; Coast to West
Pashiwar 856 32 2 0 Done Air Unit Formation Point
Picton 779 59 140 16 Done High Capacity Ferry Link to Wellington
PtoPrincessa [Plwn] 642 39 55 6 Checked Minor Port & Airfield in Visayas
Pucheng 419 49 40 1 Trail&Name Done ROC Air Base Hex
Raba [Sumbawa] 555 27 72 5 Done Low Cap Ferry to Memboro (NW Sumba)
Roxas [Panay] 633 43 55 6 Done Done Low Capacity Ferry to Bacolod/Iloilo & Cebu
Sabang [Sumatra] 505 19 41 5 Done-Done Narrow Gage Railway
San Fernando 621 43 49 6 Road Done Luzon Beach and Minor Port Hex
San Jose [Mindoro] 634 42 54 6 Done Minor Port&Airfield in Visayas; Coast NE [Luzon]
San Jose Beunavista 635 42 56 6 Done Minor Port & Airfield on Panay in Visayas
Seattle 853 136 38 3 Done High Capacity Ferry to Victoria
Soreabaja [Java] 540 23 66 5 Done-Done High Capacity Ferry to Pamekasan; Coast to East
Surigao [Mndno] 606 45 58 6 Done Done Low Capacity Ferry to Maasin
Swatow 342 45 42 6 Done Trail to NE
Taan [Hainan] 424 37 41 Clarify art: Make mountain clearer.
Tacloban [Leyte] 636 45 56 6 Done Trail Link to Ormoc & Maasin; Coast to West
Tagbilaran [Bihol] 637 44 58 6 Checked Minor Port & Airfield in Visayas
Taichu 361 48 44 6 Done Done High Capacity Ferry to Pescadores
Takao 362 47 45 6 Done Done High Capacity Ferry to Pescadores
Taytay [Palawan] 643 40 54 6 Checked Minor Port & Airfield in Visayas
Teloekbetoeng 513 19 58 5 Done-Done Ferry to Merak/Serang
Toboali [Banka] 514 21 57 5 Done-Done Coast to E [toward Belitung]
Tsushima 227 59 40 Low Cap Ferry to Fukuoka
Vancouver 891 134 37 3 Done High Capacity Ferry to Victoria; LCF to Coal Harbor
Victoria 270 135 38 3 Done High Capacity Ferry Seattle & Vancouver
Victoria Point 442 25 39 1 Done Trail to 26,39 [Kra Isthmus]
Vigan/Bangued 620 44 49 6 Checked Northern Luzon Port/Resource Hex
Wellington 775 59 141 16 Done High Capacity Ferry Link to Picton
Xuwen 422 39 40 6 Done High Capacity Ferry to Kiungshan (Hainan)
Zamboanga [Mndno] 607 40 59 6 Done Ferry Link to Jolo; Land to 41,58 (Mindinao)
[W Sumatra] NA 18 50 5 Done Change Trail to Road (Narrow gage coal RR)
[South Samatra] NA 18 54 5 Done Shown as Trail; should be Low Cap railroad
[South Samatra] NA 18 55 5 Done Shown as railroad; should be Low Cap railroad
[South Samatra] NA 19 56 5 Road Done Shown as railroad; should be Low Cap railroad
[South Samatra] NA 19 57 5 Road Done Shown as railroad; should be Low Cap railroad
[E Sumatra] NA 20 58 Coast to East [toward Banka]
[Central Banka] NA 22 56 Coast to West [toward Sumatra]
[Kra Isthmus] NA 26 39 5 Done Add Rail Spur to West
[Kra Isthmus] NA 26 40 Correct rail art NE to SE
[NW Sumbawa] NA 26 71 5 Done Low capacity ferry to Mataram [Lombok]
[Kra Isthmus] NA 27 38 Clarify art: Trail from East ENDS HERE
[Kra Isthmus] NA 27 39 1 Done Spur toward Victoria Point
[Kra Isthmus] NA 27 40
[W Flores] NA 27 73 5 Done ERROR NO FERRY WRONG HEX
[S Borneo] NA 28 63 5 Done Incorrect rating of trail as road
[S Borneo] NA 28 64 5 Done Incorrect rating of trail as road
[Celebes] NA 33 67 5 Trail Done Trail addition
[Celebes] NA 33 68 5 Trail Done Trail addition
[Celebes] NA 34 66 5 Trail Done Trail addition
[Inland Passage] NA 131 37 OK Port Alice to Vancouver Ferry
[Inland Passage] NA 132 37 OK Port Alice to Vancouver Ferry
[Inland Passage] NA 133 37 OK Port Alice to Vancouver Ferry
[North Sumatra] NA 20 42 5 Road Done Narrow Gage Railway
[North Sumatra] NA 20 44 5 Road Done Narrow Gage Railway
[North Sumatra] NA 21 46 5 Road Done Narrow Gage Railway
[Formosa] NA 48 45 6 Done Make art match pwhex file terrain type.
[Russia-Amur Prov] NA 75 26 OK River Ferry
[Russia-Amur Prov] NA 74 26 OK River Ferry
[Russia-Amur Prov] NA 73 26 OK River Ferry
[Russia-Amur Prov] NA 72 26 OK River Ferry
[Russia-Amur Prov] NA 71 26 DELETE Rail Art
[Russia-Amur Prov] NA 70 26 Change rail art to trail art.
[Russia-Chita Area] NA 65 32 Changes terrain to Forest type.
[Russia-Chita Area] NA 64 32 Changes terrain to Forest type.
[Russia-Chita Area] NA 64 16 Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[Russia-Chita Area] NA 64 16 Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[Russia-Chita Area] NA 63 32 Changes terrain to Forest type.
[Russia-Chita Area] NA 62 14 Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[Russia-Chita Area] NA 61 14 & 16 Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[South China] NA 39 & 40 35 1 Rail Done Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[South China] NA 37to40&44 34 1 Done Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[South China] NA 38 to 40 36 1 Done Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[South China] NA 37&38 33 1 Road Done Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[South China] NA 43 to 45 38 1 Done Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[South China] NA 44 to 47 39 1 Trail Done Changes terrain to Tropical Mountain type.
[South China] NA 44 to 50 40 1 Trail Done Changes terrain to Tropical Mountain type.
[South China] NA 45 to 49 41 1 Trail Done Changes terrain to Tropical Mountain type.
[South China] NA 46 & 47 37 1 Trail Done Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[NE Frontier India] NA 33 to 35 24 Change Rail art to Rail art.
[NE Frontier India] NA 34 & 35 23 Change Rail art to Rail art.
[NE Frontier India] NA 34 22 Change Rail art to Rail art.
[NE Frontier India] NA 33 21 Change Rail art to Rail art.
[South China] NA 36 35 done Adding Hanoi-Kunming RR.
[South China] NA 37 34 Adding Hanoi-Kunming RR.
[South China] NA 37 33 Hanoi-Kunming RR bed.
[South China] NA 38 35 ERROR Change Back to Trail
[South China] NA 38 34 done ERROR Change Back to Trail
[South China] NA 45 33 done Adding River Ferry
[South China] NA 45 34 done Adding River Ferry
[South China] NA 45 41 Add trail SW to NE
[South China] NA 46 35 done Adding River Ferry
[South China] NA 46 40 done Add trail east to west
[South China] NA 47 40 done Add trail east to west
[South China] NA 48 40 done Add trail east to west
[South China] NA 50 40 done Add trail to west.
[North Manchukuo] NA 66 22 & 24 done Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[North Manchukuo] NA 65 22 & 24 done Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[North Manchukuo] NA 64 to 66 21 done Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[North Manchukuo] NA 64 & 67 22 done Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[North Manchukuo] NA 64 to 66 23 done Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[North Manchukuo] NA 64 24 done Changes terrain to Forest type.
[North Manchukuo] NA 63 24 & 25 done Changes terrain to Forest type.
[North Manchukuo] NA 62 25 & 26 done Changes terrain to Forest type.
[North Manchukuo] NA 61 26 done Changes terrain to Forest type.
[Central Hokkaido] NA 71 37 1 done Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[Central Hokkaido] NA 72 37 2 done Changes terrain to Mountain type.
[Hawaii] NA 116 75 8 Done Changes road to eastern coastal route.

Name Changes ONLY SAMAH on Hainan Island
Tori Shima Island South of Japan
Hanoi - MOVE word one character to left ("I" disappears under hex art)

[el cid again]

On a different thread, a person who travels in China complained the map grossly misrepresents the terrain there. I formally studied Chinese geography once, and I was married there, and I study China in a comprehensive sense because I see it as a potential strategic rival.
I must confess to being astonished at the map as it is. SE China in particular is very mountainous, and there are no mountains whatever in the entire region - nor many in many adjacent regions. I have begun to address this by converting forrest to mountains - urban areas need more study and may have to wait for next time. See the list above for specific hexes. In general these are hexes without roads and railroads. The lines of communications run down valleys between the mountains pretty much.
So it is a first pass that is safe: there should be about twice as many mountains. China is almost exactly the size of the USA, but has three times as many mountains.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

On a different thread, a person who travels in China complained the map grossly misrepresents the terrain there. I formally studied Chinese geography once, and I was married there, and I study China in a comprehensive sense because I see it as a potential strategic rival.
I must confess to being astonished at the map as it is. SE China in particular is very mountainous, and there are no mountains whatever in the entire region - nor many in many adjacent regions. I have begun to address this by converting forrest to mountains - urban areas need more study and may have to wait for next time. See the list above for specific hexes. In general these are hexes without roads and railroads. The lines of communications run down valleys between the mountains pretty much.
So it is a first pass that is safe: there should be about twice as many mountains. China is almost exactly the size of the USA, but has three times as many mountains.

Same with Manchuria, whole mountain ranges are missing!

[treespider]

The trick is convincing AB to make some more map changes....

[treespider]

[South China] NA 36 35 Adding Hanoi-Kunming RR.
[South China] NA 38 34 Adding Hanoi-Kunming RR.

Be careful here....

[treespider]

Pucheng 419 49 40 ROC Air Base Hex

Suggested for addition to CHS, also served as the location of the 3rd War Area HQ.