WitP II ASW Model Discussion

[Nikademus]

new routine limits total attackers to 4 ships within any one TF.

[mogami]

Hi BETA!!! version 1.8
USN Submarine Sea Owl has made attacks in same hex for 3 days off Home Islands been DC's a few times (5 hits or near miss) damage sustained sys 3

This looks like a large number of spottings but there are near 100 USN submarines deployed off Home islands and around PI etc.


E13A1 Jake reports shadow in water at 64, 44
E7K2 Alf reports suspected submarine at 61, 44
E13A1 Jake reports diving submarine at 61, 44
E7K2 Alf reports shadow in water at 61, 44
E7K2 Alf reports shadow in water at 64, 44
G4M1 Betty reports diving submarine at 64, 44
G4M1 Betty reports diving submarine at 64, 44
E13A1 Jake reports shadow in water at 46, 47
P1Y Frances reports suspected submarine at 61, 44
P1Y Frances reports periscope at 64, 44
D4Y Judy reports radio transmissions at 61, 44
D4Y Judy reports shadow in water at 64, 44
H8K Emily reports shadow in water at 63, 55
E13A1 Jake reports shadow in water at 64, 44
E13A1 Jake reports radio transmissions at 64, 44
E13A1 Jake reports shadow in water at 61, 44
E13A1 Jake reports radio transmissions at 64, 44
E14Y1 Glen reports periscope at 64, 44

[IronDuke_slith]

I often think subs are essentially used in a way that will maximise casualties. I've seen opponents mass them around invasion hexes in shallow waters and even Jap ASW TFs can hit them hard there.

I think the one thing I'd highlight is that subs spotted by aircraft seem to have any ASW TFs in the hex automatically latch onto them, even though it may be several hours between that sighting and the arrival of the ASW TF. I get the impression subs don't take evasive action or dive deep and move away the minute they see masts on the horizon in these circumstances. I think attacks can be a little too effective when they get made. I suspect more depth charges per hit would have been dropped than is the case in the game but what I find is that whilst it is possible to reduce sub losses quite significantly, the tactics required to do that need you to stop sinking anything as well.

Regards,
IronDuke

[Black Mamba 1942]

Only 4 ships will counterattack in 1.8.
Bummer.[:(]

No more 20 ship gangbang.[:D]

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: zuikaku

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn


You are doing everything right in your ASW routines except for one thing... you're playing the Japanese side. It's those secret hidden modifiers that are nation specific that are killing you. If you reveresed the situation you wouldn't even have a chance to ammass such a large ASW force. The sub would be dead before half of hte assets even got on scene. (By the way, my comments don't include any changes in the 1.7xx betas so if they have dropped thenation-specifc modifiers you cna ignore this.)

Damien Thorn

If Japanese ASW routines were so seriously retarded in real war, they would never sink a single sub!
I'm playing v1.6 but will switch back to 1.5, because in this version... well, it's just too much[:@]. I'm aware of Japanese limitations in ASW, but this is.... errr... too much

The model is OK, all that needs to be done is increase the number of DCs dropped by the rails, right now they are only dropping 1 DC per rail per attack when roughly 3-6 were dropped per rack to form part of a pattern. The K and Y guns are OK but the racks fired more than 1 charge. Simple matter of editor manipulation (instead of having two rails, have 2 banks of 4 perhaps. (of course the ammo will have to be adjusted as well,)

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Black Mamba 1942

Only 4 ships will counterattack in 1.8.
Bummer.[:(]

No more 20 ship gangbang.[:D]

Thank Gawd.[8D]

[TheElf]

bump

[siRkid]

I lost two subs as the allies last turn. So, its hard for me to think it was toned down too much. Time will tell. I have to agree that subs are still being spotted from the aeir way too often.

[wild_Willie2]

I lost two subs as the allies last turn. So, its hard for me to think it was toned down too much. Time will tell. I have to agree that subs are still being spotted from the aeir way too often.

In the last 30 Pbem turns I have lost over 10 japanese subs to allied ASW forces, we are palying NIK mod and ASW TF's are limited to 6 ships. My subs get 20-30 hits per attack, while japanese DD's strugle to even get 2-3 hits on a US sub (IF they even drop DC when they attack)...

In my oppinion allied ASW is STILL to powerfull......

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

I lost two subs as the allies last turn. So, its hard for me to think it was toned down too much. Time will tell. I have to agree that subs are still being spotted from the aeir way too often.

In the last 30 Pbem turns I have lost over 10 japanese subs to allied ASW forces, we are palying NIK mod and ASW TF's are limited to 6 ships. My subs get 20-30 hits per attack, while japanese DD's strugle to even get 2-3 hits on a US sub (IF they even drop DC when they attack)...

In my oppinion allied ASW is STILL to powerfull......

How do you handle your subs? Computer Control or manual? Do you move them daily or leave them in place? Shallow water or deep water?

[spence]

I'd like to see sonar added to the devices list, improving a ships ability to attack subs. With that said I also think ASW needs to be toned down both in terms of the leathalness of DCs and the spotting of submarines by patrolling aircraft

Bump....and not just a generic sonar...but the real devices. Some ships had only hydrophones and thus no ability (in those days) to determine range to the detected submarine.

Also in WWII for sure and I think even today, water noise over the hull makes sonar utterly useless at speeds over 15 kts or so. Thus for the fast TF (30 kts) that's racing around at full speed all the time there would be next to no possibility that a sub in its path would be detected by the ships. Speed might effect whether a sub could get into position to attack or not but if it did the first the TF would know of it would be sighting torpedo wakes. Pretty unrealistic for a CV TF moving at full speed to get the first shot at the sub 9 times out of ten.

[wild_Willie2]

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

quote:

I lost two subs as the allies last turn. So, its hard for me to think it was toned down too much. Time will tell. I have to agree that subs are still being spotted from the aeir way too often.

In the last 30 Pbem turns I have lost over 10 japanese subs to allied ASW forces, we are palying NIK mod and ASW TF's are limited to 6 ships. My subs get 20-30 hits per attack, while japanese DD's strugle to even get 2-3 hits on a US sub (IF they even drop DC when they attack)...

In my oppinion allied ASW is STILL to powerfull......



How do you handle your subs? Computer Control or manual? Do you move them daily or leave them in place? Shallow water or deep water?

Deep water, and I move when I see them spotted. But most of the time I just get 6 DD's dropping a TON of DC on my subs, who then get hit badly (60-70 float) or are even sunk outright...