Lunacy or Shrewdness?

[Feinder]

From this opening, you'd never know you were "new" at WitP.

I'll be very interested to watch your AAR, simply because (from all I can see), this is a good measure of "what is the greatest possible extent that you possibly push the Japanese forces" in WitP.

Just keep the maps flowing. I hate reading combat reports, even the helpful bold stuff.

-F-

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Nikmod won't prevent what some consider "excessive" use of the Turn 1 bonus, but it makes the "Octopus strategy" far less viable.

How so, Nik? I'll admit I'm pretty ignorant about the mods (other than AB's which I'm currently using in my PBEMs). I don't want to restart so I try not to read too much about them. It'll drive me nuts. I am curious about this though.

Primarily by reducing and/or eliminating the uber-CAP shield that tends to make air combat one sided for one player or the other, depending on the month/year. Strong CV forces (whether KB or US TF's) cannot sail around the map with impunity hitting the strongest bases without fear of retaliation (either by LBA or by enemy CV's (or both))

Outside of the turn 1 "blitz" advancing on key defended bases is made further tough by a no longer anemic/negligable land AA model.

Lastly, since air combat losses are reduced wholesale its tougher to quickly suppress airfields (in conjuction with better AA forcing higher alt bombing (less hits per turn).

While still possible, advances must be more carefully considered and planned out for the long term.

Works both ways though too. A quick advance that is consolidated can be a dicey affair to attack (since the raiding CV force can suffer damage in return)

The 42A scenario highlights this in particular. While only one example, playing as Allies i have been able to check or at least curb Japanese moves, this despite the fact that i've come off the worse in terms of CV losses (4 vs 1 but with several more enemy CV's damaged) PM remains unsuppressed and is stoutly defended. My Japanese opponent is a bit at loggerheads on what to do resulting in the "front" being more or less static for the past 4 months of game play.

So its a two fold effect: pace is slowed down overall, and the lack of overpowering of one side over the other makes for more dicey results as Nemo found out with his KB...even during Japan's "Happy time"

As such, a more careful "historical" advance is the safer bet. By "historical" i'm not commenting on anyone's playing strategy, simply pointing out that the Japanese always followed a simple tennant: Never advance unless under the cover of land based airpower. (until mid 42 when they attacked Midway and then after that began building an airfield on Guadalcanal....both efforts resulted in disaster for the Japanese) Thats why they didn't leap all over the map early on. It was a careful step by step plan designed to wrest sea and air control, step by step, ensuring victory and minimizing losses. (of which can result in censure or even dismissal in RL should things go wrong)

[Mike Solli]

Damn Nik. Why did you go and answer my question. Now I want to restart using your mod.

Thanks.[:)]

[Mike Solli]

-Delete-


Grrrrrr....

[Mike Solli]

-Delete-

Geez, I keep hitting the wrong buttons.

[walkerd]

Nemo

I like many who read this AAR probably noticed the following statement and found it at odds with your strategy.

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
We have agreed to have no house rules at all since V1.795 seems to be a major improvement in most areas but we both have agreed that if we come across something which is "broken" in the game then we won't try to exploit it.

You have used the first turn elastic moment and exploited it where many would consider it a use of a "broken" rule. It is impossible for Japan to do what you have done in a "real life" setting. The different time zones and the inabilty to maintain surprise would make it impossible.

Feel free to play any way you and your opponent wish to, no one can tell you hw you should play and enjoy yourself but I know I thought you were exploiting the game design. My opinion is not important, unless of course you wanted to know what people thought, and to some degree is that not why you post an AAR?

Lets juts put it down to a miss understanding and I hope you enjoy the game.

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Nomad, sure cross me off your list of opponents but why post about it AND why overlook the fact that if you set different house rules I would have abided by them and if they precluded this sort of 1st turn explosion then it wouldn't have happened. So, say it to yourself or start a new thread discussing the issue of acceptable house rules. Why do you feel the need to post that publicly in this thread?

I too like to play without house rules, but with an understanding that extreme gaming of the game is out. I just feel that your first turn was too much gaming of the game for my taste. Nothing about any cheating or whatever. I notice that I forgot to put a smilie like this [:D] into my post above, I am sorry since it now reads somewhat different than I wanted( I really meant it as a joke, but I did write it very early in the moring).

[ny59giants]

Nemo,
Since I am re-reading "At Dawn We Slept" and it is now 12/1/41. I can say that Yamamoto was the only "heavy" in the Japanese Naval Heirarchy that favored a Hawaii Operation. His threat to resign allow this "lunacy" operation to take place.
Looking at your opening moves puts a lot of what is called "gamey" tactics into play. The only one I see would be the Java attackes and possibly the Kendari beyond possibility. The Dutch recon units are vastly reduced in numbers (about 3 planes per squadron). It will be intersted to see how you maintain your new empire in the months to come.

FYI - I would suggest that you turn off "escorts" when you form BB TF's that attack heavily guarded ports the first few times. That way your DD's and CL's aren't damaged.[:D]
The sinking of US DMS is very good because they are the only ones (speed of 32) able to be part of a BB TF when they go into unknown waters to reduce or eliminate mine damage. [&o]
A forward defense of Malaya has potential risk for an Allied player due to a Japanese invasion of Mershing and cutting off a retreat down the peninsula to Singapore.
I agree with Feinder on the maps. Plus, limit the combat results to only the significant attacks vs everything. Your BOLD comments have helped.
Ask your opponent to do a AAR with his strategies more than combat results would be helpful to another Allied player...me!![X(]

[Nemo121]

Feinder,

I plan to give weekly round-ups (with maps)... I have one for the end of the first week and we're about half-way through the 2nd week. At the end of the 2nd week we can compare my progress with my planned progress. Well, I'm new to WiTP, as I said, I only got it by digital download on 16th March but, of course, WiTP is simply a different pallette on which to apply strategic and operational principles and, as such, while being new means getting used to certain game features the basics themselves are universal and I'd have abotu 20 years experience with wargaming.


Walkerd,
Fair comment. On the other hand I specifically asked about use of the first move bonus and my opponent made it clear he didn't feel that fell under the "broken" heading. As such I was, within the parameters of our game, free to utilise it to gain as much advantage as possible. You may well draw the line in a different place and I respect that but within the parameters of our game my opponent OK'ed this.

I suppose my view would be that if Turn 1 allows x20 faster movement then anything within 40 hexes of any Japanese port should be considered at risk IF players put no restrictions on first turn moves. Of course it seems that the forum concensus is that some restrictions should be placed on the Japanese freedom to use Turn 1 movement bonuses.


Perhaps a workaround would be to model timezones in WiTPII and have it such that Turn 1 surprise effect decreases as the delay in sunrise pushes Japanese attack times back the farther west we go? That would allow the Japanese to exploit Turn 1 yet also prevent every base being as surprised as PH was...


Nomad,
No worries. It seems that there were aspects to what I posted that I was unaware of.


I've emailed my opponent outlining the issues some have raised here and offering to restart with new house rules governing Turn 1 moves. He has replied, " I am not sure why they would call that move beyond the pale. Perhaps there is something I am not aware of, but I am a student of the Eastern Front, not really of the pacific war, so it would not surprise me that there is something I don’t know. While I don’t like losing Sorebaja, I didn’t find it inappropriate. Perhaps I will change my mind down the road as I get laid waste to…. J Seriously, we agreed that everything was open and no house rules, I don’t see how I can complain. Now, whether or not I can preclude an auto victory or not, I don’t know yet. I am fine with the state of the current game."


FWIW even if autovictory is achieved I would not intend to call it quits at that stage. My plan is to create a situation in which the Japanese can, ideally, hold the Americans at bay until 1946 OR go down fighting gloriously. I tested Kamikazes out in the 1945 scenario and after 27 Judys managed to hit Enterprise 15 times in 1 day I have fallen in love with Kamikazes and REALLY want to take a game to 1944 so I can try them out.


So, since my opponent is OK with things as they are I am happy to continue the game and will post until the end of Week 1, including my SitRep and analysis of proposed COAs at that time.

[BLurking]

The 42A scenario highlights this in particular. While only one example, playing as Allies i have been able to check or at least curb Japanese moves, this despite the fact that i've come off the worse in terms of CV losses (4 vs 1 but with several more enemy CV's damaged) PM remains unsuppressed and is stoutly defended. My Japanese opponent is a bit at loggerheads on what to do resulting in the "front" being more or less static for the past 4 months of game play.

Agree wholeheartedly, Nick. I'm currently facing off against Wobbly w/ that scenario. PM used to be a joke, just another airbase that I could turn into a crater in a matter of days. Now, it's a whole new ball game.

I like it, makes things much more challenging - thanks for the work...

[Nikademus]

my pleasure. let me know how it goes. (not here though.....don't want to hijack Nemo's thread. (part of me is still suspicious that my opponent is giving up a little too easily!))

[2ndACR]

Sorry, I am a Japanese player exclusively. Never played the Allied side. Just wanted to clear that up.

I only commented, because I get some good ideas from AAR's. But this one is a little too gamey for me. Enjoy your game.

[mogami]

Hi, THe Japanese first turn movement was designed so KB could reach PH on turn 1. since the "normal" turn 1 does not have Japanese orders phase it cannot be exploited.
when the Japanese player uses the non historic start he has to restrin himself because there is no built in restraints.

There is nothing wrong with House Rules. I prefer to have the game evolve along plausable lines and not enter fantasy "Japan conquers the earth" realms.
Simple House rules.
1. On turn 1 no Japanese transport TF can end turn closer then 4 hexes to Allied base unless Allied base is less then 4 hexes from Japanese base. This prevents "teleporting"
2. All Japanese TF must remain within Japanese air cover. Japan does not need to actually assign CAP over every TF just have the ability to do so.
3. No airgroup may plot missions on the turn it transfers base except fighters may fly CAP.
4. LCU assigned to restricted HQ must pay PP costs before they enter area controlled by another HQ.
5. Japan may not bomb strategic targets. (resource/oil/manpower) Had Japan been able to do this she would not have needed to go to war with the western Alliances. If Japan desires to bomb supply contained in a hex she must traget the port or airfield contained in the hex. (She can bomb the supply but not the facilities that generate it)
6. Japan may not move LCU onto Allied supply bases. (Karachi, SF)
7. No LCU may move closer then 10 hexes to map edge that leads to enemy controled areas.
8. No Japanese TF may move closer then 10 hexes to map edge. (exception submarines)
9. No Japanese TF may move closer then 10 hexes to Allied supply hex (Karachi/SF) (exception submarines)
10. Japan must always maintain required garrisons and any base she aquires in course of game must have a complete LCU assigned as garrison before occupying force is permited to embark for movement to another Allied base. (It is OK to circumvent this rule by loading LCU back onto transports and returning to Japanese base debarking and then reembarking for another objective)

There are other things I do as Japan that I do not require my Japanese opponents to abide by.

There have been many examples of pushing the turn 1 movement. what is lacking is Japanese Plans for Conduct of war that have been developed to achive the historic Japanese war aims.
1. Secure the SRA
2. Defend against Allied attacks and inflict loss on enemy that results in their agreeing to terms.

Now you can't get the Allied player to agree to terms so in lieu of that as Japan you must survive till Mar 1946. The only way Japan can get an auto victory is by exploiting the system or facing a bad (me) Allied player.

I admit I do not dazzle anyone with my play. In the Lunatic games mentioned it was not the Japanese who were to be the lunatics but the Allies. The only exploits I used in those games was turn 1 movement (but limited to inside the SRA) And moving units from restricted HQ area to other areas without paying PP. (There games were meant as studies not actual contests between players)

Of course in the end the only restrictions a player must obey are those agreed on in advance with your opponent. A players style and history might limit his selection in future games but it's not gamey or cheating to do anything allowed that both players agreed to.

why limit mining by air? What are the odds the defender would have CAP in a specific hex or even that such hexes would be in range of CAP? If these missions may not be intercepted thay also may not be escorted and the escorts would always outnumber the CAP. Just prohibit mining ports that have CAP assigned. Then a player would have to run sweeps prior to mining.

[Nemo121]

A rather decisive turn. It would appear the risk I've taken sending 8 BBs and a half-dozen CAs into Soerabaja for bombardment runs over the past few days has paid off.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/11/41

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 23,51

Japanese Ships
SS I-154

Allied Ships
ML Pro Patria, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 31,70

Japanese Ships
CL Naka
DD Natsugumo, Shell hits 2
DD Minegumo
DD Asagumo
DD Murasame
DD Harusame
DD Yudachi
DD Samidare
DD Ikazuchi
DD Inazuma

Allied Ships
DD Alden, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Edsall, Shell hits 1
DD John D. Edwards, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
DD Whipple, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

A significant night surface engagement near Kendari robs the Allied forces of yet more light units. This is extremely important to me as I am beginning to consider the possibilities of "bouncing" Northern Australia ( excluding Darwin) with a lightning invasion over the next 2 weeks and I do not wish his light forces to be docked in Derby, Wyndham or Broome and able to interdict my invasion fleets. My initial concept would be to have my Battleline head for Darwin and suppress the airbase there while my CA TF bombards Derby and Wyndham, Troops may be landed by a CL&DD FT at Wyndham while some APs could bring men into Derby. If the enemy aerial forces are dispersed I can simply forego the AP-transported units and run my FT landings in series instead of in parallel. Sure it'll be an operation thrown together on the fly with little preparation and major risks BUT it'll also unbalance the Allied response and, hopefully, draw his Australian forces north... Later on I can bring down Regiments from the DEI and set up blocking positions on the railways into Darwin and Derby. It isn't anything finalised but the speed of the collapse in the DEI is making me consider it.

It will succeed in robbing the Allies of resources, remove the threat of bomber raids into the DEI, constitute a threat to all of Australia which the Allies must honour AND, most importantly of all, draw his forces northwards where I can choose to either engage them, withdraw before them or land behind them and anihilate them. It will also act to focus the Allies on entirely the wrong theatre and thus constitute both operational and strategic-level maskirovka operations.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Macassar, at 30,69

Japanese Ships
CA Kumano
CA Suzuya
CA Mikuma
CA Mogami
CA Chokai
BB Nagato
BB Fuso
BB Yamashiro
DD Mikazuki
BB Ise
BB Hyuga
BB Mutsu
DD Arashio
DD Michishio
DD Oshio
CA Atago
CA Takao
BB Haruna
BB Kongo


Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 8
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 4

Macassar is completely irrelevant to me but as the Battleline is heading to Kendari to refuel I may as well hit it in passing. It may lead Trey to think I'm going to waste resources going after what has, by the capture of Kendari and its other sources of supply, been rendered an operational irrelevance.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Lautem, at 33,78

Japanese Ships
DD Maikaze
DD Nowaki
DD Arashi
DD Hagikaze
CL Sendai


Allied ground losses:
130 casualties reported
Guns lost 5
Vehicles lost 1

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 11
Port hits 3
Port supply hits 1

Lautem is bombarded by light forces in order to soften it up for the landing of an NLF in the near future.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 95,62

Japanese Ships
AP Kuraido Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AP Marsue Maru
PC Ch 30, heavy damage
PC Ch 24
PC Takunan Maru #10
PC Sonan Maru #6
PC Sonan Maru #5
PG Shotoku Maru
MSW Seki Maru #3
MSW Fumi Maru #2
MSW Banshu Maru #8
MSW Asahi Maru

Allied Ships
SS Argonaut

Subs seem to be doing well in this game with very light losses at sea and the occasional torpedoing of enemy vessels. Seems a lot more realistic than I had under V1.6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Kido Butai was north-east of Pearl Harbour while my Glen-equipped subs saw the enemy CVs coming east past Johnson Island. I decided to displace KB southward in order to cut off the US retreat eastward. Unfortunately this necessitated expending KB pilots in airstrikes on Pearl Harbour in order to close the field for the three days that I would be within range of land-based SBDs. Unfortunate but an operational necessity.

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40
D3A Val x 85
B5N Kate x 153

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 3
P-26A x 3
P-36A Mohawk x 2
P-40B Tomahawk x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged
D3A Val: 6 destroyed, 19 damaged
B5N Kate: 16 destroyed, 26 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
P-26A: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 3 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 10 destroyed
B-17E Fortress: 5 destroyed
B-18A Bolo: 4 destroyed
SBD Dauntless: 2 destroyed
PBY Catalina: 2 destroyed
A-20B Boston: 1 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
114 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 21
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 143

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
22 x B5N Kate bombing at 8000 feet
20 x B5N Kate bombing at 8000 feet
16 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
15 x B5N Kate bombing at 8000 feet
17 x B5N Kate bombing at 8000 feet
24 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
23 x B5N Kate bombing at 8000 feet
21 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
16 x B5N Kate bombing at 8000 feet
15 x B5N Kate bombing at 8000 feet
9 x B5N Kate bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 23,61


Allied aircraft
T.IVa x 6


Allied aircraft losses
T.IVa: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
PG Eiko Maru
AP Hakozake Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x T.IVa bombing at 5000 feet
3 x T.IVa bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Macassar at 30,69


Allied aircraft
Brewster 339D x 3
Martin 139 x 3


Allied aircraft losses
Martin 139: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 28,52


Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 4
Blenheim I x 8
Blenheim IV x 5


Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim I: 1 damaged
Blenheim IV: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
MSW W.5

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Blenheim IV bombing at 5000 feet
4 x Blenheim I bombing at 5000 feet
4 x Blenheim IV bombing at 5000 feet
4 x Blenheim I bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Lautem at 33,78

Many Allied bombers appear to be based at Darwin... Darwin will definitely need reduction by the Battleline.

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 13
B-17C Fortress x 11


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CL Sendai
DD Maikaze
DD Arashi

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
6 x B-17C Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B-17C Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
2 x B-17C Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Soerabaja at 22,65

Batavia is becoming a problem but my failure to capture Kuching or the other size 4 ABs in the area dooms my transports to heavy losses.

Allied aircraft
CW-21B Demon x 6
Brewster 339D x 12
Martin 139 x 18
Hudson I x 3


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Fusemi Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Midori Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Hayo Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Sanura Maru, Bomb hits 1
MSW Choun Maru #18, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
2 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Hudson I bombing at 5000 feet
4 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 23,61


Allied aircraft
Martin 139 x 2


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Sunten Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 23,63


Allied aircraft
Martin 139 x 3


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CL Kashii, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 32,72

Manoeuvring DDs seem to be quite difficult targets to hit. Of course, under present circumstances every ship hit is pretty much guaranteed to be destroyed later by either the Bettys at Kendari or the Battleline when it bombards Darwin.

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 24
G4M1 Betty x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Barker
DD Bulmer
DD Parrott
DD Paul Jones
DD Stewart, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 31,73

Boise is tough. It supposedly took two torpedoes last turn and is still fighting fit. [X(]. Can I buy some? [&o][&o][&o]

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Boise

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 29,79

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AP Mijer, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 34,77

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 2

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Mauban, Torpedo hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 29,75

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CA Houston

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 29,76

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
ML Prins van Oranje

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Kuala Lumpur at 23,46

There is an AP at Manoora... I can't figure out why this is... he is withdrawing into Singapore and yet he has sent an AP to Manoora... I see some more APs escaping from Singapore. The only thing I can think is that he is putting the Manoora there to distract my planes from attacking the shipping farther south. Anyone have any idea what he could be up to?

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AP Manoora

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 23,61


Allied aircraft
Martin 139 x 21
Hudson I x 3


Allied aircraft losses
Martin 139: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Fukko Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
PG Muro Maru
PG Eiko Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Hudson I bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 26,68


Allied aircraft
T.IVa x 3


Allied aircraft losses
T.IVa: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
PG Kamitsu Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x T.IVa bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Lautem at 33,78


Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 14
B-17C Fortress x 2


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
DD Nowaki
CL Sendai

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
2 x B-17C Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
2 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 32,55


Allied aircraft
Martin 139 x 2


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Meisho Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 23,61


Allied aircraft
CW-21B Demon x 7
Brewster 339D x 10
Martin 139 x 3


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Hakozake Maru, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 32,72

And a better afternoon for the Bettys and Nells. 21 planes fly for 6 torpedo hits. Out of the 5 DDs in this TF this morning it looks like only 1 will see tomorrow.

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 12
G4M1 Betty x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Bulmer, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Parrott
DD Barker, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Paul Jones, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 99,98

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 11

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Admiral Halstead, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Darwin at 36,84
These attacks represent raids on enemy ships which HAVE run the gauntlet and made it to Darwin. De Ruyter is there, which means its escorting destroyers made it too. Damn, I really didn't want them to be there to disrupt my Battleline's bombardment.
Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 3

Allied aircraft
Wirraway x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 2 damaged


Allied Ships
CL De Ruyter

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 32,72

Hmm, did I say 1? I meant, none... [:D]

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DD Stewart, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 95,62

Japanese Ships
AK Venice Maru, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Argonaut

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat at 114,64

Japanese Ships
CV Kaga
CV Hiryu
CV Soryu
CVL Zuiho
CS Chitose
BB Kirishima
CA Chikuma
CL Abukuma
DD Tanikaze
DD Arare
DD Kasumi
DD Akebono
DD Sazanami, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
PT PT-30, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT PT-42, Shell hits 1

LOL!!! 2 PTs get within range of one of my 2 KB TFs... They get a hit on Sazanami and cause it massive damage. It detaches and is sent limping back to Tokyo.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 91 troops unloading over beach at Amboina, 39,73


Japanese ground losses:
34 casualties reported


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Soerabaja

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 32655 troops, 352 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 5451 troops, 21 guns, 1 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Soerabaja base !!!



Allied aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft losses
T.IVa: 4 destroyed
Do 24K-2: 3 destroyed
CW-21B Demon: 2 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
299 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Allied ground losses:
1373 casualties reported
Guns lost 8

Brilliant combat result for me. This makes up for Borneo... which is a bit of a disaster zone at the moment. Apart from the Brunei landings I either landed too little or landed it without supply [:D]. My inexperience definitely showed in terms of forgetting to load supplies on several of my invasion fleets[:'(]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Rabaul

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 9933 troops, 73 guns, 15 vehicles

Defending force 2955 troops, 23 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Rabaul base !!!



Allied aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft losses
Wirraway: 6 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
100 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

Allied ground losses:
4276 casualties reported
Guns lost 22


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Nanning

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 12481 troops, 147 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 15364 troops, 112 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
2136 casualties reported
Guns lost 45

Allied ground losses:
54 casualties reported
Guns lost 4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Hong Kong

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4607 troops, 67 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 13036 troops, 116 guns, 4 vehicles


Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
48 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
Vehicles lost 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Yenen

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 78378 troops, 872 guns, 14 vehicles

Defending force 30696 troops, 175 guns, 0 vehicles



Allied ground losses:
91 casualties reported
Guns lost 1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Pontianak

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 8565 troops, 91 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 1333 troops, 6 guns, 1 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Pontianak base !!!


Japanese ground losses:
96 casualties reported
Guns lost 7

Allied ground losses:
2018 casualties reported
Guns lost 5


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Lautem

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 501 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 853 troops, 20 guns, 1 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Lautem base !!!


Japanese ground losses:
3 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
1307 casualties reported
Guns lost 24


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Nanning

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 15268 troops, 107 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 9914 troops, 81 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 12 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Nanning base !!!

Oops! My forces withdraw into the Japanese base south-west of Nanning. I order them to move to Canton instead and I hope they'll link up with my forces there.

Japanese ground losses:
2 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
43 casualties reported
Guns lost 2


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Changsha

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 18860 troops, 133 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 33913 troops, 358 guns, 7 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
150 casualties reported
Guns lost 8

Allied ground losses:
530 casualties reported
Guns lost 24


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Kuching

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1083 troops, 1 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 9027 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles



Overall things are going fairly well.. Soerabaja finally fell which is going to let me roll Java up quickly. Once that's done I can resupply my forces which landed without supplies and redeploy some of them to aid the invasion of Northern Australia if I decide to go ahead with that.

Allied scuttlings in Soerabaja today are:
AS Colombia scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AS Zuiderkruis scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
MSW Eland Dubois scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
MSW Abraham Crijnssen scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
MSW Pieter de Bitter scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
MSW Jan van Amstel scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AP Van Neck scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AP Van Landsberge scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AK Toendjoek scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AK Sinabang scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AK Sigli scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AK Senang scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AP Rochussen scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AK Parigi scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AK Loa Koeloe scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AK Soerabaja scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
TK Iris scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AK Boero scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AK Benkalis scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AK Ban Ho Guan scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AK Modjekerto scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AK Duymaer van Twist scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!
AK Tjisaroea scuttled at Soerabaja to prevent capture!


Not a bad haul at all. This will prevent them from robbing my resources and oil from Java AND ferrying troops etc to or from Australia. So far so good. As the game progresses I am seeing Northern Australia as being more and more isolated and ripe for invasion.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Mogami
10. Japan must always maintain required garrisons and any base she aquires in course of game must have a complete LCU assigned as garrison before occupying force is permited to embark for movement to another Allied base. (It is OK to circumvent this rule by loading LCU back onto transports and returning to Japanese base debarking and then reembarking for another objective)

Hi Mogami,

Do you do this for dot hexes too? I garrison almost every base I take but not the dot hexes unless I plan on building a base there.

[Nemo121]

Mogami,

Well it was my understanding and that of my opponent that mine-laying aircraft CANNOT be intercepted by CAP. That's a clear game bug and not a case of obtaining maximum advantage from a feature which works as advertised and, as such, it is outruled in this game.

IF the air-mining missions can be intercepted and I'm wrong on this then, of course, air-mining is allowed.

[mogami]

Hi, I don't know if they can or can't be intercepted. But there are lots of places to mine that are out of range of CAP. Just limit mining to non base hexes where they would not encounter any CAP. (It seems you are throwing too much away)

[mogami]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: Mogami
10. Japan must always maintain required garrisons and any base she aquires in course of game must have a complete LCU assigned as garrison before occupying force is permited to embark for movement to another Allied base. (It is OK to circumvent this rule by loading LCU back onto transports and returning to Japanese base debarking and then reembarking for another objective)

Hi Mogami,

Do you do this for dot hexes too? I garrison almost every base I take but not the dot hexes unless I plan on building a base there.

Hi Mike then you'd just reload onto your transports. Go back where you came from. Unload and then reload for the next objective.
If your trying to cut off retreat of enemy then your unit should remain till after that mission is complete.

[Odox]

Greetings Nemo121:

Thank you for the reply.

Come to think of it, I believe I recall it was Nikademus that came up with the 'mutually supporting airfields' to counter Allied heavy bombing.

Actually Nemo, if remember the designer's notes correctly, the Japanese First-Turn Bonus was created merely out of a need to have a mechanism to reproduce the movement of the KB to replicate the surprise effect at Pearl; it was an issue of 'game mechanics', nothing more. It was never meant to imply, for instance, that Japan had the potential for attacking anywhere it wished with complete impunity.

Personally, I believe anything moving or flying south of Formosa should be 'spotted'. Although there's still debate on the matter, most people put the Philippine's surprise at MacArthur's feet. I see no need to penalize every Allied player for that forevermore. The isolated Pacific islands and Pearl are another matter.

Remember one of Napoleon's more famous maxims? "I expect my enemies to do their very worst to me, and I plan accordingly'. There are three types of surprise in this game; first-turn surprise, individual unit and commander surprise, and the surprise you can inflict upon your game opponent (I'm disregarding teleporting units and disappearing commanders as we hope this will be rectified soon). I've seen in this game where those that count on surprise usually fail to gain it, and those that play as though it isn't going to occur typically do very well.

Now, mind you I'm struggling, like Descartes, with the mediocre mind I've been given, but these are people with whom I've come to have a special regard for their gameplay as Japan, and why; and I pass them along that perhaps they may be of benefit to you also:

pauk - pauk reminds me of one of those chess players that's always playing twenty-thirty moves ahead. He's especially gifted at denying the Allies everything he can. He can also pare down the size and constitution of a coming Allied offensive by creating mini-crises in other areas . . . to which the Allied player will them detach assets from the main effort to deal with. Very skillful.

Amiral Laurent - Masterful administrator, logistician and planner. Very good ability to measure cost vs benefit. Well-known for his capture of PH in one AAR. One of the more capable all-around Japanese players. Bold in his willingness to hunt the American CVs early-war and to interdict WC shipping.

Mogami - Very well-known for his technical understanding of game mechanics and for his somewhat Pyrrhic victory over the Soviets in one AAR. There were howls of 'unhistorical!!!' there as well, of course. Especially good at misdirection and bringing about hesitation on the part of the Allied player when he plays as Japan.

Nikademus - A very good all-around player and excellent understanding of game mechanics. Creator of 'Niksmod', a very highly-regarded mod for WiTP and worth looking into. As I mentioned above, I believe he was the first to practice a 'shell-game' of air assets to protect them from Allied bombing. This technique is probably serviceable for non-air assets as well. Both he and Mogami above have an superior grasp of Japanese production.

esteban - As I mentioned, a highly-organized, balanced player with keen insight into force capabilities and tasking. Exceptionally sharp at keeping low battle fatalities and disruption. Very good at misdirection also. The word for esteban is 'finesse'.

Cap_and_Gown - I alluded earlier to a player that can plan and execute with meticulous precision. This is he. Arguably the finest player at maximizing Japanese production and resources. He is more timetable-committed that esteban above, who is superb at taking advantage of targets-of-opportunity.

Sneer - Sneer has "combined arms" down to a science, not just on land, but the whole gamut of the interplay of military forces. Probably no one better at situation assessment and exploitation. Eternally on the offense, never relenquishes the initiative. The 'defense' for him is merely practicing the art of 'economy of force'. A superb and formidable opponent.

PzB - While most Japanese players treat the IJ forces as simply the KB and a few datais of Zeroes, PzB makes incomparable use of the other 98%. Unmatched at surface combat and ASW. Probably the only player that could make a go of Japan if the KB were ever lost. Unparalleled defensive player, well-known for his conquest of India and his skill with supply and force balance.

Well Nemo, there are certainly other gifted players, but these are the ones I watch. They, and not me, would be better judges of the 'gaminess' of one move or another. Rumor has it that one man nicknamed 'Jagdpfleuger' is also around, so watch for him. He's supposedly especially good.

Good hunting!

Odox

[walkerd]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
Walkerd,
Fair comment. On the other hand I specifically asked about use of the first move bonus and my opponent made it clear he didn't feel that fell under the "broken" heading. As such I was, within the parameters of our game, free to utilise it to gain as much advantage as possible. You may well draw the line in a different place and I respect that but within the parameters of our game my opponent OK'ed this.

I suppose my view would be that if Turn 1 allows x20 faster movement then anything within 40 hexes of any Japanese port should be considered at risk IF players put no restrictions on first turn moves. Of course it seems that the forum concensus is that some restrictions should be placed on the Japanese freedom to use Turn 1 movement bonuses.


Perhaps a workaround would be to model timezones in WiTPII and have it such that Turn 1 surprise effect decreases as the delay in sunrise pushes Japanese attack times back the farther west we go? That would allow the Japanese to exploit Turn 1 yet also prevent every base being as surprised as PH was...

My comment is that to pretty much everyone on this forum it is a clear and blatant abuse of a broken rule. If your opponent was fine that there is no problem. I am just saying that is why so many people may have seemed, well lets face it, were in fact very negative of your AAR.

People place restrictions because in "real life" you could never do what you have done. You are using game mechanics to produce an impossible result. It is just like being unable to intercept aerial mineing missions. A game mechanis that produces non real life results.

To do what you want and be "historical" you would in fact need to turn surprise off and then attack all over the map. This is your game and you and your opponent can play any way you want. If people do not like your play style then they need to go elsewhere.

The other thing is you came accross as negative to the Nik mod. Many people have a lot of respect for Nik. People get defensive when they should just not be involved. Just trying to explain why people were so negative. As I said, its your game and I hope you enjoy yourself and we can all calm down a little.