Is the save game crash bug just annoying?

[myros]

The whole name we have given this bug is a little missleading ... its not actualy a 'save game bug'. It doesnt affect the save games in any way, in fact it has nothing to do with saving games, you dont even have to save a game to be struck by the bug.

Just going to the save game screen (press 'f') and then right away try to exit the screen can cause the crash, in fact that may be the best way to track it down.

It is more annoying that anything else, the game is very stable these days so dealing with this bug isnt to bad. Not a reason to avoid this one-of-a-kind amazing game thats for sure.

Myros

[Mynok]

I told Yank about this and asked him to not compress the files and he stopped doing it. Since then I've only had one Save Game CTD and that was likely due to a "fast finger".

FYI, I'm playing Yank as well. He sends me compressed files and I've never seen the save game exit CTD.

Does it affect Allied players more than Japanese players possibly?

[33Vyper]

ORIGINAL: Longstreet

Hi Folks,

I really want to buy this game, but of all of the problems I have heard, the one that bothers me the most, for whatever strange reason, is the saving a game and then crashing to desktop bug. I have seen some folks say this is beyond annoying where others say it hardly ever happens. I do know that I do not like it when a software package crashes to desktop. It is unsettling to say the least. So...is it a real game-stopper for some, or should I quit crying in my beer and but the game? [:D]

Longstreet

Hello Longstreet,

I am perhaps one that has bitched the most about this....and let me tell you yes it can be annoying. That being said what would be worse is if you did not purchase the game simply because of this. This IS the end all and be all of pacific based WWII games. The ongoing patches and support from Matrix is fantastic. And as Don has mentioned they are working on this.

When I look back at all of the wargames I have purchased over the years...the only games that have ever been left on my hard drive were the original PacWar and PG. Now those are some classics. What I can assure you right now is that WITP will also be one of those games that remains on my hard drive.

So....take the leap here and join the club. Get your digital download today .... but only if you are prepared to spend the next year immersed in the most fun you have had in ages.

Wishing you well

A VERY satisfied customer !

[mlees]

Does it affect Allied players more than Japanese players possibly?

I am playing single player mode. (As Allied, mostly.)

Still see the CTD.

Edit: Just saying this in response to your musings about the PBEM files being compressed, uncompressed, or whatever... [:)] Doesn't matter, I think.

[Nemo121]

To be honest with you the save game crash bug isn't a big deal. I am only new to the game but I haven't had it occur yet. And even if you do crash to desktop there is no loss of info etc so the workaround is simply to restart. Now I know that might still be annoying BUT I would argue that it isn't half as annoying as encountering a multitude of game bugs which do, clearly, negatively impact the veracity and believability of the model.


No, if you are thinking of not getting the game then there are a LOT of more serious bugs which need to be addressed which directly impact the outcome of the game at tactical, operational and strategic levels. As an example in the last three turns of my PBEM game I've come across the following bugs:

1. Forced re-assignment of carrier-based aircraft to restricted HQs, thus crippling my ability to re-organise my carrier TFs. One of the matrix people hinted that they knew the cause of this but when asked to expand on the triggers so it could be avoided in future and to comment on workarounds they have maintained a vow of complete silence for three days.

2. Land combat movement bug in which a unit which had moved 125 miles to Hyderabad ( in India) which was shown to be 120 miles from its original position was actually located in the wrong hex, 120 miles from Hyderabad. End result, the city fell. I've asked matrix about this... Again no answer so far.

3. Incorrect display of supplies for the same unit. Instead of requiring about 1500 tons of supplies the 25000 men in the unit are shown as requiring only 13 tons per month . Since strategy is essentially the application of logistics and forces which result from those logistics in order to achieve national policy objectives a bug which understates logistical requirements by 99% is pretty serious. Mentioned to matrix. Again no reply.

4. Task Force movement bug. For some reason task forces which have had all the necessary precautions ( do not retire, do not refuel etc etc) and have been ordered to FAST MOVE seem to move an average of 75% of the distance the game claims they should move.

5. There's also, arguably, an air squadron bug which allows a massive exploit of the training system and allows both sides to, effectively, easily set up a training programme a minimum of 4 times the size of the maximal training programme envisioned by the designers and testers within 6 months of the game's start.

Those are just the big bugs I noticed in the past 3 turns. I'm sure several others are occuring but are obscured by the scale of the game and my focus on these major bugs.


Now, that's not to say some very good things aren't being done in upgrading the game and squashing bugs BUT be prepared that with the good comes a major dose of frustration AND having requests for clarification of triggers and work-arounds being ignored by matrix if you happen to complain about a clear bug they choose to call irrelevant. Their criteria for irrelevance don't seem to include impact on gameplay as that can be clearly demonstrated for several of the above bugs.


So, good game? Yes, very BUT there are a lot of holes beneath the waterline also. To be honest if I wasn't already committed to a PBEM I don't want to bail out on for my opponent's sake I'd be contacting my local consumer advice department to enquire about my ability to return this game for refund. If there was clear, constructive engagements about these bugs it would be a different matter of course but 72 hours is more than enough to post an explanation or, at the least, a "we don't have a clue what causes it or how to fix it can you send a save game file". Neither of these has occurred. Draw your own conclusions from this.

So, a good game but if you get frustrated when asked to deal with a lot of clear game bugs then this may not be for you. One an individual level the more information you gather about the number and impact of game bugs the more information you'll have to make the right decision for you. For game marketing purposes Matrix, obviously, is unwilling to sticky a thread for all bug reports in any forum so it is impossible to direct you to a one-stop shop for this information so I would suggest searching the forum for threads on individual bugs. Unfortunately it won't be difficult to find many, many threads on many, many different bugs.

[mlees]

Nemo, I am aware that there are more serious issues.

No one has debated against that opinion, no one has stated that this is a "game breaking" bug.

The posters with the Matrix logo have themselves stated that there are more serious issues that they want to spend the time with, and that is why this bug is still around.

I merely posted my comments as a sort of, well, "whisper" to Matrix that the bug is still out there. No flaming, no hissy fits, not a big deal. Just a note to the big guys. [8D]

[Longstreet_slith]

Oh my. As I suspected, quite a spectrum of opinions. I think I will go ahead and get the game as it does sound like THE Pacific War game....but I am still concerned....and now more about what sounds like some major bugs still out there. But it sounds like the positives far outweigh the negatives....[:)]

Longstreet

[ChezDaJez]

Does it affect Allied players more than Japanese players possibly?

I think it effects both equally.

I also believe this only applies to the "in turn" save game feature and not the "end of turn" PBEM save game feature... at least I've never seen it at the end of turn save, only the "in turn" save.

Chez

[mlees]

Longstreet:

Yes. Think of it this way. If the game was a stinker, would it be generating such passion, sustained for over a year? (The game was out late 2004.) [:)]

[Nemo121]

With all due respect I am constrained to point out that yes, even if the game WAS a stinker, it could be generating controversy and passion over a year after release.

The reason for this is usually that as players new to the game come to the forum they re-energise the discussion. An excellent example of this would be my recent purchase of the game which led me to be, initially, extremely impressed by the game and then less so as I got to notice the large array of bugs. As requests for official input and advice re: triggers and solutions was ignored posts became more passionate as my frustration at the unwillingness of officials to engage in meaningful discussion grew.


So, while I'm sure most of the passion on these boards for this game is due to players thinking it is absolutely great at the very least some of the passion is of a more negative form born out of frustration at the inability/unwillingness of designers to engage in discussion about specific bugs and their triggers and work-arounds.


Longstreet,
Ok you are the only person who can decide what level of bugs etc you, as an individual, can tolerate and still find the game enjoyable. I do, however, urge you to just spend one evening reading some of the bug threads on the forum before purchasing so you can make your decision in light of more complete information. Delaying your purchase by one evening won't destroy your enjoyment of the game if you decide to go ahead but it could give you a more complete picture of what you're getting into.

With that said if you buy the game I hope you enjoy it thoroughly.


Here's a list of a few great bugs to get you started. These are just the more obvious bugs and links to discussions of the more obvious bugs. I've come across all but 2 of them and am only in my 2nd month of play.


tm.asp?m=937968&mpage=1&key=bug&#937968

tm.asp?m=892217&mpage=1&key=bug&#892217 ( A really strange exploit which definitely qualifies as a bug).

tm.asp?m=844979&mpage=1&key=bug&#844979 (This is one of my favourites)

tm.asp?m=774106&mpage=1&key=bug&#774106 ( I have observed a variant of this bug with the same end result in several units in my current game and I think it was claimed to be fixed previously)


Can't find a link to it but Japanese radar is simply broken. If I remember it right it was given the wrong device number and so doesn't function. People can argue over the exact impact of this bug and many try to explain it away as not causing a major effect. That may be so that may not be so. It doesn't change the fact that such a widely identified bug shouldn't exist in the official version of the game after 7 post-release updates.

If you air transport units using dedicated transport planes there is a limit on the size of gun etc transported. If you load the troops onto non-specialised planes ( bombers pressed into service in an emergency) with lesser cargo capacity etc you can load a gun of ANY size onto the plane. Basically if it can be moved on the ground bombers and floatplanes can move it by air even though, by the game's own rules, it is too large to be air-transportable.


Paratroop units in-game routinely upgrade their equipment to non-airtransportable Anti-tank guns etc. So, if you want to keep the unit air-transportable using transport planes you need to stop it receiving replacements ( and let it wither away through attrition) OR you need to fly the infantry with transport planes and the heavy guns etc in bombers ( completely the opposite of what would have happened in extremis historically).


Well, that's enough to get you started...

Take care and if you do buy I hope you enjoy the game. It requires a bit more polish but is a very worthwhile addition to the genre.

[pad152]

Save Game Crash Bug.

Seems to happen when I have more than 15 saves!

Seems to happen a lot more when my hard disk needs a defrag!

[Gem35]

WitP is the best wargame I have ever had the chance to enjoy, Yes this so-called bug rears it's ugly head every now and then, but it's not a game breaker , just look at it this way, perhaps it may motivate you to buy a new computer that launches the game that much faster and then allows you to enjoy this great game that much sooner after the rare CTD after saving the game occurs. I like to look at the glass half full and this glass is a tall one. If you are thinking about getting yourself a copy of this game, by all means, let the download begin.

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: myros

The whole name we have given this bug is a little missleading ... its not actualy a 'save game bug'. It doesnt affect the save games in any way, in fact it has nothing to do with saving games, you dont even have to save a game to be struck by the bug.

Just going to the save game screen (press 'f') and then right away try to exit the screen can cause the crash, in fact that may be the best way to track it down.

It is more annoying that anything else, the game is very stable these days so dealing with this bug isnt to bad. Not a reason to avoid this one-of-a-kind amazing game thats for sure.

Myros

How many people with this problem have always used hte "f" key? I have never used that key, instead using the mouse through menus and it's happened to me only once. All my CTD's with the one excpetion have nothing to do with the saved game screen. Mine occur without warning with no discernible pattern and if I were playing it every day would amount to a crash every 2 weeks. It's actually more of a memory leak or freeze than anything, but I end up re-booting as a small fix almost every time (I have had it entirely shut down the computer too).

BTW, I also wonder if the majority of those having the saved game CTD, are not also those who PBEM. I'm an AI guy only, with a 2.8G w/1MB RAM.