But we are getting UV2... with much more heavily detailed carrier ops
Yeah, and that's spelled W-E-I-R-D...[&:]
Not really, 2by3 seem to like recycling old code. World at War has just been recycled as "A World Divided", Bombing the Reich is already being recylced by another team, and thinking about WitP still induces nightmares, so the obvious one to recycle is UV. [:D]
But we are getting UV2... with much more heavily detailed carrier ops
Yeah, and that's spelled W-E-I-R-D...[&:]
Not really, 2by3 seem to like recycling old code. World at War has just been recycled as "A World Divided", Bombing the Reich is already being recylced by another team, and thinking about WitP still induces nightmares, so the obvious one to recycle is UV. [:D]
Do we really need more carrier games? They've suspended development on WitE to do this... That's what's weird...
I for one don't want World at War 2 or UV 2, I want a new game on the UV/Witp engine. I don't see why a med game (aka bomb alley) couldn't be done with a re-vamped UV engine. Matrix is not just re-hashing old games now it seems that are letting the developers re-hashing the newer ones. Pretty soon there well be nothing left but re-hash of re-hashes. [8|]
I for one don't want World at War 2 or UV 2, I want a new game on the UV/Witp engine. I don't see why a med game (aka bomb alley) couldn't be done with a re-vamped UV engine. Matrix is not just re-hashing old games now it seems that are letting the developers re-hashing the newer ones. Pretty soon there well be nothing left but re-hash of re-hashes. [8|]
I would love to see a MED based game. But I think it was stated almost two years ago that this will not happen. To bad because I really like the MED theater of OPs.
It's all about money. We're an active forum, but an active forum doesn't mean money in the pocket. Nor does patching old games - we're lucky they take care of us as well as they do. Making a game as complex as WITP has got to take a lot of man hours, and you've got to prove that these man hours will be made up for with very high sales.
I for one don't want World at War 2 or UV 2, I want a new game on the UV/Witp engine. I don't see why a med game (aka bomb alley) couldn't be done with a re-vamped UV engine. Matrix is not just re-hashing old games now it seems that are letting the developers re-hashing the newer ones. Pretty soon there well be nothing left but re-hash of re-hashes. [8|]
I'd love to see a Med game as well, but NOT in a million years should it be based on the WitP engine. Said engine should never ever be used for any new games ever again.
ORIGINAL: Terminus
I'd love to see a Med game as well, but NOT in a million years should it be based on the WitP engine. Said engine should never ever be used for any new games ever again.
True wisdom coming from the land of the often-vandalized, fequently-stolen mermaid (okay, so she's not really a mermaid. It helps my fantasies to think of her that way).
Fresh start, folks, we need a fresh start. Problem is, everything will now be area movement based on the CoG (not interested) or GGWaW (definitely not interested) system.
Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
CoG (not interested) or GGWaW (definitely not interested) system.
MED theater of OPs
[:D]Don't want to be rude or something guys but even I have sometimes problem with those shortcuts of yours... maybe create a thread for new people called "Abbreviations of Forum Users" [8D][:D]
CoG (not interested) or GGWaW (definitely not interested) system.
MED theater of OPs
[:D]Don't want to be rude or something guys but even I have sometimes problem with those shortcuts of yours... maybe create a thread for new people called "Abbreviations of Forum Users" [8D][:D]
Izvenitia.
CoG - Crown of Glory, the strategic Napoleonic game that reminds me (in unfriendly ways) of Imperialism (a game I tried to like, but couldn't).
GGWaW - Gary Grigsby's World at War, the globe-encompassing strategic World War II game that gave new meaning to the computer wargame designer phrase, "If we just make something that looks like Axis and Allies, then convince people to believe that it is something special, we can sell a sh1tload of 'em."
I will leave the MED (which I believe refers to the Mediterranean theater in WWII) commentary to the person who made it.
Sorry, Yava.
Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
I will leave the MED (which I believe refers to the Mediterranean theater in WWII) commentary to the person who made it.
That would be me, my apologies. I tend to rush things somtimes and type horribly. Yes, MED refers to the entire Mediterrnean theatre of operations. Not limited to North Africa/Malta but including the Italian campaign, Crete, Greece, etc...
I'll try to not type short cuts that are not obvious to people any more.
As long as I am here let me state I am not lover of area movement either, I like hexes. It is what I grew up with so many years ago.
Thanks guys, frankly I just couldn't figure out this Crown of Glory[:)]
I like hexes. It is what I grew up with so many years ago.
Same here, grew up on good old board strategic games and later on the Panzer Generals and other... and yes the Mediterrnean theatre would be good, thou it would be have to combined with lot of ground combat.
Atlantic, nah U-Boats U-Boats and once again U-Boats, I don't think that many people would like to play scenarios based on hunting these subs or a scenario named "Find the Pocket Battleship" refearing to Admiral Graf Spee... would be a bit boring... or maybe not if someone likes sneaking aroun the ocean with one CA or BB just to hunt some allied shipping, still on War in The Pacific engine it would be imposible to do it since the AP's, AK's, TK's and so on can resist lot's of shell hits before going down...
Another fact is that we already have 3 games concerning the Pacific and I don't really think that we need another one even if it was going to simulate China vs USA in the near future...
[;)] If one can dream freely, Matrix now has access to a range of games, which put together (veeeeeeeeery far fetched, I know) would become the mother of all wargames. Imagine the WitP high level naval model with the H3:ANW detailed level to resolve battles. Then add TOAW III for ground ops modelling with COTA to resolve battles. Everyting to be possible for the players to select at which level to resolve during the game of course
It´s possible it would take more time to play through WWII than the actual war took, but, hey, time´s availaible 24 hrs per day.....
Well since we have mentioned a game with all of World War II, I for one would like to see it. Further since Hearts of Iron
(HOI) was mentioned, I think there are aspects from HOI that I think are worthwhile to incorporate into a game. I noticed
that many of the features of GGWaW and the sequel are borrowed from HOI, such as the newly implemented espionage. I
know that it is difficult to make comparrisons with HOI and WitP since WitP is a much more complex game.
I would like to see a research and development model that is similar to HOI, in that you have a technology tree. However,
unlike HOI, where you have generic models for all combatants I would like the tech tree, where you could develop
historical models, and also what-if equipment. Another element, would be to have major industrial concerns represented
within the game.
Using Focke Wulf, as an example, you would have Focke-Wulf Flugzeugbau AG, instead of having the micromanagement of
individual factories, you as the CINC, would establish a level of funding for Focke-Wulf, this level of funding would govern
the output of Focke-Wulf factories and aircraft, it would also impact R&D, so if you elevate Focke-Wulf funding at the
expense of Messerschmidt, yes you will get more Fw-190s, and maybe even an earlier Ta-152, however, the cut
Messerschmidt funding would impact the ability to obtain Me-262's. Continuing, with Focke Wulf a good example of a what
if aircraft is the Fw-187 Falke (Falcon), which was preferred by pilots over the Me-110C, and when it was designed has a
max speed 50 mph greater than the Me-109B, despite the fact that the Fw-187 was a significantly larger and heavier
aircraft. Given a majorly overhauled and revised WitP engine covering the all of WW2, it would be interesting to see how
such a plane would have faired in the Battle of Britian.
As the head of state you would have production/R&D priorities for the different services branches of armed forces and the
associated companies that handle production. In terms of R&D, not many games do a good job of capturing the constant
escalation caused by the gun/armor race between Germany, the USSR, and the US/UK. Also another area was the
constant race to seek more powerful aircraft engines, which led to the ushering of the jet age. Another aspect is the long
lead time between the development of a prototype and a working combat system. There are of course some phenomenal
exceptions such as how the Soviet La-5, was developed by Lavochkin without official sanction, yet ended up being one of
the better Soviet fighter planes. In terms of technology there would be applied and theoretical research:
applied would be weapon systems and tied to individual companies, and have the ability to provide 'grants' or subsidies.
theoretical would be
electronics-> RADAR, ASDIC, signals, gun fire control for capital ships
rocketry -> solid state rockets, could to lead to spin-offs like Fritz-X, and HS-293, and possible SAMs,
air-to-air missles and air-to-surface missles
armament -> although more of an applied area, but somehow have a method to capture the gun race,
for example 2 pdr, 6 pdr, 17 pdr. Furthermore, for navies AAA armament race, using the USN as an example .50 cal MG, to 1.1 inch gun, to 20 mm Oerkilon, to 40mm Bofors gun, 5"/38 DP to the final 5"/54 DP gun.
Another aspect would be setting national economic policies, for example Japan and Germany failed to rationalize and
centralize their industries until it was too late. For example Japan did not make an effort to have a Munitions Ministry until
1943 at which point there was a substantial increase in aircraft output, I will have to dig up my book on the Air War by
Overy to get the exact numbers. Anyhow, I like how GGWaW, seems to have this built in, since the Allies and the Russians
get more out of their production as the war footing level increases, and at some point so does Germany. Unlike the current
WitP model were all factories have the same output level based upon having adequate resource input.
Another area, and this is were I think HOI shines is in the area of diplomacy and trade. There should be some manner of
negotiating diplomacy and trade deals, either with neutrals, or putting out peace feelers with belligerent nations. Recently
in a library I recalled skimming a book by a Russian author about the first couple of weeks of Barbarrossa, interestingly
enough he mentioned that Stalin put out peace feelers with the Germans in October of 1941. Granted there are some
states were peace agreements should be highly unlikely, Hitler bent on world conquest, Allies 'unconditional surrender'
doctrine.
I imagine that some will cry foul, or say some of these things make the wargame 'gamey' and not a simulation, but for
myself I would really like to see the ablitiy to have 'what if's' of course there could be a mechanism like political points, or
a similar correllarly, like influence points to maintain some level of game 'balance' and keep things with a historical context.
In my mind, playing any World War II game against a competent opponent as the Axis should be a major challenge, most
of the time as the Axis you should loose. The Axis powers, mistakenly believed that their individual marial prowness could
overcome the economic might of the Allies, this was a flawed premise, there were instances were Axis operational brillance
lead to significant defeats for the Allies, but ultimately even if playing a realistic simulation and avoiding operational
disasters such as Stalingrad or Midway. Even when Axis powers recognized the economic nature of the war it was too little
too late. Interestingly enough, I read were some 'rationalized' the Japanese aircraft industry, and was 'winning' a war of
attrition against the USN, since the USN was not receiving enough F6F Hellcat fighters, of course this probably a
consequence of the lack of control of production for the Allies.
Anyhow, I have more ideas, of course ideas are cheap, compared to making the idea a reality. But if anyone has interest I will go into more depth.
I know I'll get killed for saying this but I did not like HoI at all. I bought it based on all the buzz but still found it to be just another real-time game. I don't even like the new CW game that just came out that everyone else likes so much. I guess I'm stuck in the past. If it isn't turn-based with hexes, I won't like it.
Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.
HoI was not, IMHO, one of Paradox's better efforts. It was an attempt to capitalize on the success of the Europa Universalis engine but it really can't quite handle proper air & sea. It can be fun if you're not in the mood for historical accuracy and want to play an Empire Building type game.
This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.
