Aberdeen Proving Grounds

[TOMLABEL]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

If ya' wanna see a King Tiger, got to the Patton museum at Ft Knox, near Louisville.........


http://www.generalpatton.org/index.asp

Yes, that's right. I forgot that the Patton museum is who has the King Tiger.

TOMLABEL

[TOMLABEL]

ORIGINAL: DD696

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: DD696

Late US SPA

That's a German Ferdinand.

Wasn't this also called the Elefant? That just looked too new and in too good of shape to be one of the German AFV's. That's as good a find as the JagdTiger is.

As I recall, it has been recently refurbished. Here's an old pic on display at Aberdeen.

TOMLABEL

[TOMLABEL]

DD696,

It looks like you guys had a great time! I have always wanted to visit Aberdeen, but have not been there yet. Thanks for posting the pictures.

I really enjoyed the pics of the Panther D & G as well as the Marder III, the Panzer III & IVs, the Hornisse, Jadgpanther, Brummbar and the StuG IIIs. Man! I've got to get up there soon!

TOMLABEL

[Gem35]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

TOMLABEL,

Where can I get my hands on that pin-up work of art you are using for an avatar?

It is one I am not familiar with.

He still needs to change her to a Blonde.[:'(]

[crsutton]

Well, it is nice to see them refurbishing some of them. However, a pity to see so many in poor shape.
 
If I was king of the US, there would be some funding alloted to get them under cover at least.
 
Of course, if I was the king of the US, I would have many better things to do than post here---and, all of your taxes would be much higher..[X(]

[fmonster]

DD, Thank you so much for sharing! I lived and worked at Pax River Naval Air Station in the '90s and never did get a chance to go to Aberdeen for anything other than a high school football game. [:(] Missed opportunity. I did get to all the civil war battlegrounds in the surrounding states though. Like you said, so much more to see!

Again, thanks for the effort and the sharing. [&o]

Gary

[Speedysteve]

ORIGINAL: DD696

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: DD696

Late US SPA

That's a German Ferdinand.

Wasn't this also called the Elefant? That just looked too new and in too good of shape to be one of the German AFV's. That's as good a find as the JagdTiger is.

Thanks for the pics DD[8D]

I think the difference between Ferdinand and Elefant was that one had MG's and the other didn't?

[DuckofTindalos]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

ORIGINAL: DD696

ORIGINAL: Terminus




That's a German Ferdinand.

Wasn't this also called the Elefant? That just looked too new and in too good of shape to be one of the German AFV's. That's as good a find as the JagdTiger is.

Thanks for the pics DD[8D]

I think the difference between Ferdinand and Elefant was that one had MG's and the other didn't?

Correct. Elefant came first, had no MG's. Then Ferdinand.

[Local Yokel]

Very nice photographs, DD! [8D]

According to Walter Spielberger's profile:

'The new unit received the official designation Panzerjager Tiger (P) Elefant (SdKfz 184). Originally called "Ferdinand" after its designer, Dr Ferdinand Porsche, its official designation was "Elefant".'

So it appears that Ferdinand was the first name applied to the vehicle. Two battalions of these tank destroyers (some 90 vehicles) were committed to the attack on the north flank of the Soviet salient at Kursk in the Germans' 1943 summer offensive. The lack of a bow MG severely hampered their ability to defend against Soviet infantry (I have heard it suggested that crews had to resort to firing automatic weapons down the bore of the main armament!). Those recovered from the Kursk battlefield were retrospectively fitted with the bow MG for self-defence that is visible in the photos; thereafter some were sent to Italy.

The vehicle was highly unusual (?unique) in that it used electric transmission. In effect it was in competition with a Henschel design as a platform for an 8.8 cm-gunned tank. In the event, the Henschel design eventually went into production as the much better known PzKpfw VI Tiger 1.

I suggest that the PzKpfw IV shown at posts 129-131 is an Ausf. F2 model: the first to mount a long-barrelled 7.5 cm main gun that is distinguishable from later 'seventy-fives' by its single baffle muzzle brake. The different, double baffle brake of later weapons is apparent in the 'rarity' at post 145: a truly weird machine apparently sporting drive sprockets at front and rear! I assume that the front sprocket (the drive sprocket on the standard production model) is, in fact, free turning, and that drive is imparted by the entirely non-standard rear sprockets connected to the experimental hydraulic transmission.

[tocaff]

I really enjoyed that!  Thanks

[Raverdave]

Thanks for posting your pics...they are great.    But it is a pity that so many of those tanks are sitting in the open rusting away.  Real pity. [:(]

[DuckofTindalos]

RAVER![&o][&o]

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: DD696

Next, a Rhinosauerus (I really should take pictures of the plaque when I can't spell it)

just name it "Nashorn" [;)]

[mikemike]

Really great photos. I just wish you had been able to take more photos of the artillery. I went through my books and I've got some annotations to make (I like to show off, and this is a splendid occasion!)

Post 41/42: That's a Panzer IV D
Post 51-53: A Panzer IIIM or later: the smoke dischargers on the turret came with that model.
79: JagdPanzer Kanone, correct. Weight 23 tons, 500 hp, speed 44 mph, 90mm gun that fired the same ammo as the M47/48. Was used by the Bundeswehr until late '70s, then converted to fire TOW ATGMs. The design owed its concept to the Hetzer and the JagdPz IV.
80: a US M55 203mm SP howitzer
86: a Sturmgeschütz III, but a late model, you can see the reinforced front armor. The gun seems a larger caliber than 75 mm. From the look of the mantle, I'd say it's probably a 105 mm Sturmhaubitze (assault howitzer) with a short barrel
101: JagdPz IV. Had no official name, but was nicknamed "Guderianente" (Guderian Duck) - Guderian had initiated the design. The gun doesn't have the usual muzzle brake, and the road wheels look more like those on the version with the L/70 gun.
130-132 show a Panzer IV F2
151: in the background left you can see a Soviet 203mm howitzer on a tracked carriage
153: the twin AA gun is not an 88 mm, but a 128 mm twin as used on the flak towers in Hamburg, Berlin, and Vienna.
154: the grey-painted vehicle third from left is an Italian tank destroyer, a Semovente M.41M da 90/53 (Self-propelled 90mm/L53 type M.41M. The gun (which is as powerful as a German 88 mm) is mounted at the front of the vehicle, pointing aft. Set up obviously for shoot-and-scoot. The guns in the background visible between the tanks: the grey-painted gun second from left looks like a German 150 mm K18 gun, the one to the right is a French 155 mm GPF-T, also visible in the background of post 121.
155:the vehicle on the right is a "Heuschrecke" (Locust), not a tank destroyer, as Terminus thinks, but a 105 mm howitzer, a field artillery gun. This was a prototype. In principle this was what the British called a "portee", a vehicle to carry a gun into the firing position and retreat to the rear after offloading the gun. Not really SP artillery.
156:The vehicle in front is a Heavy 150 mm Field Howitzer 13 (a WWI gun) on the chassis of a French Lorraine artillery tractor, a SdKfz 135/1. The vehicle behind is a 150mm Heavy Infantry Gun on a Gun Vehicle 38M (a vehicle derived from the Czech-designed Pz 38t, the version with the engine in the middle - SdKfz 138/1.
171-173: the little tank is a French Hotchkiss H.35

Concerning "Anzio Annie": this was the most numerous German railway gun, with 25 built. An example modified to a 310mm smoothbore barrel fired a fin-stabilized shell and demonstrated a range of 100 miles on trials.

That's all the stuff I could positively identify.

[DuckofTindalos]

True, the Locust wasn't a Jagdpanzer, I had my missions mixed up for that one. It was still, however, a MONUMENTAL waste of resources, even though only 3 were built.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuschrecke_10

[DD696]

That definately wasn't my last trip there, and on my next one I will take photos of the artillery since interest has been expressed. It's only just a bit over an hour away. So much to see there. I really don't know if they have plaques identifying the arty. I didn't notice any but there may have been. So with an arty expert (probably more than one out there) I will take the pictures and let the experts tell me (and the rest of you) about them. I better get a bigger memory stick for the camera.

Thanks for the info you posted.

There is another tank museum in Danville, Virginia. Maybe I can make a little trip to it and then run on over to the Patton museum in Kentucky. Anyone interested in pictures from the Air & Space museum in Washington, D.C., or the annex out by Dulles?

[John Lansford]

That's a German Ferdinand heavy tank destroyer. When they were designing the Tiger, Porsche designed a model that was rejected. There were 90 lower chassis already made though, so they put a super heavy armored box on them and an 88mm long AT gun, and used them in the Kursk offensive. Later some were used in Italy.

[Blackwatch_it]

ORIGINAL: TOMLABEL

ORIGINAL: m10bob

If ya' wanna see a King Tiger, got to the Patton museum at Ft Knox, near Louisville.........


http://www.generalpatton.org/index.asp

Yes, that's right. I forgot that the Patton museum is who has the King Tiger.

TOMLABEL

The Kampfgruppe Peiper King Tiger in La Gleize, Ardennes

[John Lansford]

There's a much smaller armored museum in Danville, Virginia, that has many rare vehicles in it and adding more all the time.  They've got a Pzkw IV-J that was in the German, Finnish, Syrian and Israeli armies, and some APC's from the Soviet, British, German and US armies.  They're all indoors and don't allow photography, but it's a real nice visit.

http://www.aaftankmuseum.com/

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Thanks for posting your pics...they are great.    But it is a pity that so many of those tanks are sitting in the open rusting away.  Real pity. [:(]

Ditto, there is a lot of history turning into rust.

I regularly drop in at the Royal Australian Armoured Corps Museum at Puckapunyal, 60 miles nth of Melbourne.

They have about 80 AFV, from pre WW2 Medium Mk III, Vickers Mk VI, a good collection of M3 Stuarts, M3 Lees & Grants, Matilda II in many versions, A Crusader I, Cromwell(6pdr), Shermans tested on Bouganville, Chaffee, various Japanese tanks. lots of Centurions, T54/72, Swedish S Tank, & Ifv90, and while I was walking around, one of our second hand Abrams was buzzing around in the background.

All are well restored, a fantastic effort by the RAAC and the Army.