Directive 21 playtesters thread

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Don't forget that they have 'special' capabilities.

Oh. I guess I should have looked at one that was parked on an airport. Hey, and while I have your attention: I'm not sure I like the 11 railroad dudes that don't have to actually do anything besides park near a rail to repair it. I'm noticing that they aren't nearly keeping up with the front lines. And it's not even winter yet.

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Don't forget that they have 'special' capabilities.

Oh. I guess I should have looked at one that was parked on an airport. Hey, and while I have your attention: I'm not sure I like the 11 railroad dudes that don't have to actually do anything besides park near a rail to repair it. I'm noticing that they aren't nearly keeping up with the front lines. And it's not even winter yet.

Rick and I have done extensive testing to get the proper mix of number of supply units, supply radius and auto-repair capability. It really shouldn't be enough to keep up, but it should be enough to not fall too far behind. The overall effect is on a percentage rate, so some turns you will get less, and some turns more. It all evens out eventually. I will point out that it should actually be far more difficult to keep up. The Germans had extreme difficulty with the rail situation, and it was only because of motor transport that the whole supply system didn't collapse. Because intact rail lines provide full supply, we have to keep a bit of a reign on it. We could talk about it forever, but it is quite boring.

Also, keep the little supply units up front within one hex of your favorite units. They help out a lot. At the start, the supply radius is 6, so keeping a supply unit 6 hexes from the nearest railhead will provide 150% of full supply to any adjacent unit, and a one level boost to any unit within 6 hexes of the supply unit. So you get to some point during the initial advance where you have to make decisions as far as if you want to wait for the railhead to catch up a little, to keep in good shape, or just let your units go ahead and run low.

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

I played up to 52 but there wasn't much point - the -ve shock was completely countered by the overwhelming Axis numbers - there were only 340 Russian units left at the end - 1 Romanian division disintegrated under counter-attack by Novorossisk, but otherwise the massacre continued....

Maybe we need the cease fires to prevent forward movement, and negative shock at the same time to restrict movement behind the lines?

[SMK-at-work]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Don't forget that they have 'special' capabilities.

Oh. I guess I should have looked at one that was parked on an airport.

Me too!

Hey, and while I have your attention: I'm not sure I like the 11 railroad dudes that don't have to actually do anything besides park near a rail to repair it. I'm noticing that they aren't nearly keeping up with the front lines. And it's not even winter yet.

Well that much at least is perfectly reasonable then!

I find they go much faster when I pay attention to exactly where they are and how many broken rails are nearby.

But overall they shouldn't keep/catch up until some time in the winter.

[Silvanski]

FYI, an article about railroad conversion on the east front. It gives some dates of completion
http://www.feldgrau.com/dreichsbahn.html

[SMK-at-work]

Yep I've seen that document a lot.  The very best cases are listed where rail lines were repaired right up to the front line either immediately or within a few days - 3 of them....3 cases across the whole of the Russian front from the start of Barbarossa until December.

And you can do that if you concentrate your rail repair in D21 too.

But not if you spread it out - you get 1 really good line and 1 reasonable 1, or 3 not so good ones...or 4 not very good ones at all...etc

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

Yep I've seen that document a lot.  The very best cases are listed where rail lines were repaired right up to the front line either immediately or within a few days - 3 of them....3 cases across the whole of the Russian front from the start of Barbarossa until December.

"Repaired", yes. "Converted", I'm not so sure. In other words, I suspect they were operational only for the few wide gauge trains the Germans could field. I don't think the converted railhead was keeping up with the panzers.

[larryfulkerson]

One of our Soviet fort units has a space in it's name. Is that a problem? I don't mind, and I'm not complaining I just noticed it.

[sPzAbt653]

No worries, it's just a way to tell the difference between formations with the same name. It doesn't have any effect on play, it's just a design thing.

[larryfulkerson]

So um........the Hungarians, Romanians, Finns, Spanish and Italians have their own style of Infantry squad. So I'm wondering why the Slovak units don't. I'm not complaining and I don't mind that they don't I'm just curious. They seem to have the regular Axis squads as seen in the picture below.

[sPzAbt653]

I guess because they only have two non-reconstituting units that they don't rate separate squads.

[sPzAbt653]

I was wrong about unit proficiencies creeping up to 100% by turn 200. It's only turn 135.

[sPzAbt653]

Turns 120-127. Moving south from Vologda thru Yaroslavl to come in behind the Soviet forces gathering to the north of Moscow.

[sPzAbt653]

Turns 127-137. Working on the Soviet forces to the south of Moscow. These guys have been attacking and pushing me back hex by hex for about 30 turns, so it will be nice to surround and eliminate them. I've gathered up 12 panzer divisions and 5 motorized divisions, plus 4 infantry divisions, as a striking force. But just now the mud hit, so I'll have to wait about ten turns to get moving again.

Since turn 95 when the loss ratio was 10-1, it has been slowly dropping and is now at 4.5-1. Elmer is only getting 1,189 rifle squads per turn, so my 431 per turn is good until the loss ratio gets below 2.8-1. Tula and Orel might be captured soon after the mud, so that would help out a little.

[sPzAbt653]

Check out fancy Elmer attacking and surrounding some of my guys! But he isn't strong enough yet to keep me from recovering the line. A few turns ago he attacked in the same area and squirted several tank brigades thru my lines. I had to round them up and eliminate them while making sure he didn't bust my defense up.

[MechFO]

Great Stuff! Have been waiting for something like this since Trey Marshalls ?War in Russia? in 98 or 99.

Is there still going to be work done on the OOB's? There are some weird inconsistencies like nearly no Maultiers, some odds and sods using Sdkfz 7/1, instead of the generic 20mm SPAAG in all the other units, masses of Sdkfz 233's but no Inf Squads in PzAufkl. Abteilungen etc.

Not meant as criticism, just wondering if it's worth starting work on my own OOB adaption or to wait until the final version is released.

Also does the German production increase with time or does it stay constant? Would it be worth considering giving a German player some bonuses if he controls the Ukraine for an extended time period? Right now it seems to be just manoeuvre room after the initial conquest. AFAIK they did get quite a bit of use of the resources in the Ukraine.

[sPzAbt653]

Hello MechFO,

We can make changes to the oob. Are Maultiers the '150mm PanzerWerfer Self Propelled Multiple Rocket Launchers'? The 7/1's are probably only in the '42+ units. The 233's were used to standardize the unit equipment due to the extended time period covered by the scenario. I don't know why there are no Inf Squads in the Auf units. These units could use some revision, I think. Currently they stay in for the duration, but it is possible to make an early and late version. Here's a picture of the current configuration. If anybody has any suggestions ...

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: MechFO
Also does the German production increase with time or does it stay constant? Would it be worth considering giving a German player some bonuses if he controls the Ukraine for an extended time period? Right now it seems to be just manoeuvre room after the initial conquest. AFAIK they did get quite a bit of use of the resources in the Ukraine.

It is worth consideration, along with the loss of the Silesia area later in the scenario. From what I understand the Soviets made the important areas unusable, and the Germans would have had to have the manpower and resources in place for up to a year in some cases in order to gain a measurable benefit.

As it is now, there is an increase in the Axis supply level if Maikop is taken and held, and there is a 5% production increase in 1943. It has been suggested that the 5% increase in 1943 is too little, but the overall effect has to be taken into consideration, not just the raw numbers. That said, it can be changed if it is felt it should be.

[MechFO]

I would put events in giving bonuses after capturing 2-3 cities, but with a long time delay after the initial capture. Then have another event which reverses the bonus when/if the soviets recapture them.

[MechFO]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Hello MechFO,

We can make changes to the oob. Are Maultiers the '150mm PanzerWerfer Self Propelled Multiple Rocket Launchers'? The 7/1's are probably only in the '42+ units. The 233's were used to standardize the unit equipment due to the extended time period covered by the scenario. I don't know why there are no Inf Squads in the Auf units. These units could use some revision, I think. Currently they stay in for the duration, but it is possible to make an early and late version. Here's a picture of the current configuration. If anybody has any suggestions ...

OOps, I see that they are already in. Must have missed it the first time round.

sPz Abt and PzJg Abt have unique 7/1 and 6/2. Might be worth looking for the other exotics and standardize on one type.

In general there are some weird discrepancies. I have nearly the same numbers for the German and Finnish Inf Div's (including the temp boosts), but Luftwaffe, Italian, Rumanian and Russian Rifle Div's are all lacking significant numbers of Inf squads.

Also the Pz Divisions are all significantly overstrength, especially in Infantry.

Here's my suggestion for the Recon Abt in 41/early 42.