Allied vs. Jap AI
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: The Marianas Invasion is About to Begin
ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Jim can you send me a save please ? I want to take a look at the japanese side to see how the AI has done
a.mcphie@btinternet.com
Sure, will do. Let's see if I remember how.
RE: The Marianas Invasion is About to Begin
ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Jim can you send me a save please ? I want to take a look at the japanese side to see how the AI has done
a.mcphie@btinternet.com
Sent. Let me know if I sent you the right file. [:)]
Surprising Events in China
The China Situation
Well...who would have thought? Chinese forces are sitting outside the gates to Hong Kong? But that's exactly what has happened. The Chinese forces completely destroyed all the Japanese forces in/around Canton. Just a few more Jap forces need to be hunted down and killed.
After that? Hmm...not sure. I'll admit, Hong Kong IS tempting. But the Japanese can reinforce that so easily - or retake it so easily - I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. Additionally, the shock attack across the strait won't do the Chinese forces any favors, either. The way China can win a land combat with Japan is through grinding deliberate attacks. At first, the attacks don't do much. But after a few of these attacks, the Japanese casualties start rising quickly.
Most likely, once these isolated Japanese forces are eliminated, I'll send several corps units up to Nanning to end the seige there (and hopefully trap/destroy) the 30K Japanese troops there.
China and Supply
The supply situation in China is weird right now. The only reason the Chinese are running a bit wild now is because a few units are finding full supply. What's weird is that no other unit in China has fully supply (and at least half are at or near 0 supply) - only the units running around Kukong and Canton are gaining full supply. I truthfully do not know how or why these units are finding supply and other units in China are not. But oh well, I won't complain. Without the supply, none of these attacks could have happened.
Japanese Nightmare Come to Life
The Japanese have lots of potential nightmares in this game, but one not often thought about is what happens when very large Chinese Corps land units get to 60+ experience level. With that experience level, these huge Chinese Corps - if fully supplied and if they have some artillery with them - can really run roughshod over the Japanese units if they aren't dug in and have lots of armor/artillery of their own.
And pity the poor Japanese unit that tries a shock attack against these Chinese Corps. It's happened twice, and both times the Japanese unit took stratospheric casualties (and, of course the next turn the Chinese attacked back - shattering the Japanese unit).
Fortunately for the Japanese, AE is way different than stock. Back in stock WiTP, it was easy - if painful - to develop the ENTIRE Chinese Army to an experience level of 70+, with some units have 90+ - without ANY outside help from the Allies. Needless to say, the Japanese Army in China didn't last too long against that. Every game I ever played against the Japanese AI (which, in all fairness, played China very poorly) in stock WiTP had the entire Japanese Army in China being eliminated by no later than early 1944! In one memorable game against the AI, the US even borrowed a few Chinese Units for the invasion of Formosa - with the Chinese units embarking on the transports at Hong Kong!
With all the supply issues the Chinese have in this game, I don't expect anything like that to happen here. But I'll admit it IS fun having at least a few over-strength Chinese Corps that can do a standup fight with the Japanese and come out on the winning side on occasion.
Additionally, I also think the AI is paying right now for having withdrawn some units from China for use "elsewhere." But that's just a guess - I'm not sure if the AI has actually withdrawn units. But - considering how empty this the southern part of China is of Japanese units, I do wonder.
Well...who would have thought? Chinese forces are sitting outside the gates to Hong Kong? But that's exactly what has happened. The Chinese forces completely destroyed all the Japanese forces in/around Canton. Just a few more Jap forces need to be hunted down and killed.
After that? Hmm...not sure. I'll admit, Hong Kong IS tempting. But the Japanese can reinforce that so easily - or retake it so easily - I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. Additionally, the shock attack across the strait won't do the Chinese forces any favors, either. The way China can win a land combat with Japan is through grinding deliberate attacks. At first, the attacks don't do much. But after a few of these attacks, the Japanese casualties start rising quickly.
Most likely, once these isolated Japanese forces are eliminated, I'll send several corps units up to Nanning to end the seige there (and hopefully trap/destroy) the 30K Japanese troops there.
China and Supply
The supply situation in China is weird right now. The only reason the Chinese are running a bit wild now is because a few units are finding full supply. What's weird is that no other unit in China has fully supply (and at least half are at or near 0 supply) - only the units running around Kukong and Canton are gaining full supply. I truthfully do not know how or why these units are finding supply and other units in China are not. But oh well, I won't complain. Without the supply, none of these attacks could have happened.
Japanese Nightmare Come to Life
The Japanese have lots of potential nightmares in this game, but one not often thought about is what happens when very large Chinese Corps land units get to 60+ experience level. With that experience level, these huge Chinese Corps - if fully supplied and if they have some artillery with them - can really run roughshod over the Japanese units if they aren't dug in and have lots of armor/artillery of their own.
And pity the poor Japanese unit that tries a shock attack against these Chinese Corps. It's happened twice, and both times the Japanese unit took stratospheric casualties (and, of course the next turn the Chinese attacked back - shattering the Japanese unit).
Fortunately for the Japanese, AE is way different than stock. Back in stock WiTP, it was easy - if painful - to develop the ENTIRE Chinese Army to an experience level of 70+, with some units have 90+ - without ANY outside help from the Allies. Needless to say, the Japanese Army in China didn't last too long against that. Every game I ever played against the Japanese AI (which, in all fairness, played China very poorly) in stock WiTP had the entire Japanese Army in China being eliminated by no later than early 1944! In one memorable game against the AI, the US even borrowed a few Chinese Units for the invasion of Formosa - with the Chinese units embarking on the transports at Hong Kong!
With all the supply issues the Chinese have in this game, I don't expect anything like that to happen here. But I'll admit it IS fun having at least a few over-strength Chinese Corps that can do a standup fight with the Japanese and come out on the winning side on occasion.
Additionally, I also think the AI is paying right now for having withdrawn some units from China for use "elsewhere." But that's just a guess - I'm not sure if the AI has actually withdrawn units. But - considering how empty this the southern part of China is of Japanese units, I do wonder.
- Attachments
-
- china.jpg (278.11 KiB) Viewed 309 times
RE: Surprising Events in China
Ai doesnt pull China units out opther than 38th Div
RE: Surprising Events in China
Do you actually have a schwerpunkt? It seems that many of those Burmese thrusts are woefully weak. Of course this is against the AI so probably the weakness won't matter. Against an experienced player though I think you might find they'd commit a blocking force against the main thrust ( jungle and forts would combine to mean that a force of 1,000 AV could comfortably hold the 3,500 AV thrust ) before combining against the other thrusts and defeating them in series and in detail - potentially even with surroundings given the adverse force correlation which would prevail vs the last 2 thrusts.
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
Well, that's that settled then.
RE: Surprising Events in China
ORIGINAL: Nemo121
Do you actually have a schwerpunkt? It seems that many of those Burmese thrusts are woefully weak. Of course this is against the AI so probably the weakness won't matter. Against an experienced player though I think you might find they'd commit a blocking force against the main thrust ( jungle and forts would combine to mean that a force of 1,000 AV could comfortably hold the 3,500 AV thrust ) before combining against the other thrusts and defeating them in series and in detail - potentially even with surroundings given the adverse force correlation which would prevail vs the last 2 thrusts.
Thrust #4 and #5 are weak...but they aren't really intended to combat anyone. Just shrink the battlefield and hopefully pin the Japanese units in place. If all works well, these two thrusts will combine with the main one.
Thrusts #1-#3 will combine into one outside of Shebow...so it will be a substantial force.
The reason this strategy has unfolded is due to Japanese failure earlier in the war in Burma. Three high quality divisions were completely eliminated (2 at Imphal, 1 at Chittagong). If the Japanese still had these divisions available, most likely I wouldn't be contemplating an invasion of Burma at all - for the very reasons you stated.
But without those three divisions, plus the armor units that were lost, it really opens up the door to Burma. Japan simply doesn't have enough forces to block the entire axis of advance through the jungle. If it attempts to do so, the Allies can simply march around and isolate the units - while still being strong enough to prevent successful Japanese attacks.
I know from Intel that the Japanese aren't anywhere in the jungle. Instead, they are holding in Mandalay and vicinity. So the Japanese making a stand in the jungle really isn't an issue.
The big question is whether the Allies will be able to a) supply this whole Army marching through the jungle and, b) whether the Allies can knock the Japanese out of Mandalay/Shebow, as these units are likely very, very dug-in.
RE: Ramblings on CV's and Strategy
[Lots of interesting stuff]
Thanks for the heads-up, for a newbie like me this kind of strategic stuff is priceless! [&o]
By the way, I like the way you're planning the logistic for Guam forces. As you say, if there is no strange problems regarding low unload rates because of port sizes, etc., that will save you a lot of time and wear and tear in your vessels.
Are the invasions already underway?
RE: Ramblings on CV's and Strategy
Also thanks for this great AAR! It's my first game with the AE and you help me to prevent many mistakes!!
Best wishes for 2010 and that the AAR will be continued for a long, long time[:)]
Best wishes for 2010 and that the AAR will be continued for a long, long time[:)]
Saipan, Rota and Tinian Secured
This AAR Covers 7/31/43 to 9/6/43
Sorry for the delay. But between doing lots in the game and Christmas travels, I never got around to posting the latest AAR. So...here it is.
Marianas Invasion
The invasion of Rota, Tinian and Saipan went off far, far better than I could have hoped. As intel showed, Rota and Tinian were lightly defended. In two days, Allied assault forces took the islands - allowing for a staging base for everything else and allowing Allied CV's and other vessels the ability to refuel/rearm while on station.
Saipan fell a week after Tinian and Rota were secured (Tinian was invaded one day after Rota). All in all, the invasion to secure these three islands - and allowing two days for bombardment - took only 10 days.
Saipan, much to my surprise, fell easily. For whatever reason, the AI didn't really garrison it. There were a lot of support units there, but not much in the way of infantry. But it really didn't matter, since the Allies had 5+ divisions, 4+ armor units, 3+ combat engineer units, and 4+ field artillery regiments. Combined with days and days of bombardment, the Jap forces on Saipan never had a chance. When the Allies invaded, the Japanese units were so badly disrupted that their combat defensive factor had dropped to less than 20 (they had around 300 AV there, give or take).
Guam
All that is left is Guam. After offloading all the units that are to participate in the Guam invasion at Rota (big mistake...Rota has a stacking limit of 60K men. I should have done this on Tinian instead!), I've begun reloading the units on APA's and LST's. 4 divisions are now loaded, along with two armor and one field artillery regiment. Just need to load up the support units and a few smaller combat units an everything will be ready.
Unlike the other islands, Guam is well defended. Intel shows the 21st division and a whole gaggle of other Japanese LCU's. So, invading Guam won't be the cake walk the other three islands were. That said, due to the daily bombardment by BB's and carrier aircraft, I suspect the disruption level of Japanese units on Guam will be very high - so I still anticipate taking the island relatively easily.
The offloading of all the units on Rota - despite the stacking problem - went off without a hitch. The "plan" to transport these units to Guam in xAP's, offload them, then reload them on APA's has worked to perfection. Due to having 300 Naval Support on Rota, all these units offloaded within a few turns. By dragging all these units to Rota, instead of keeping them at Pearl, I've saved a good 30+ days in the overall time line.
Air and Naval Resistance at the Marianas Plus Organization of Attack
There was no naval resistance at the Marianas at all, due to the decimated IJN. It's helpful that I invaded the Marianas so early. If I had waited until mid 1944 as was done historically, the japanese would have had quite a few more carriers (new ones) that they could have used to resist - however meager the resistance might have been. In any event, the lack of naval resistance was no surprise.
But what was a surprise was the total domination of the skies by the Allies. The Japanese had hundreds of planes on Guam, Tinian and Saipan each - figure a total of at least 700 planes. I was really expecting to take some losses to these planes, as I expected they had very high experience levels. But alas, my strategy worked - leading to basically another "Great Marianas Turkey Shoot." Only a handful of bombs ever were dropped, and those that were hit nothing except for a lone hit on a BB that caused slight damage (wasn't a BB slightly damaged by a bomb hit the real-life Turkey Shoot?). The Hellcats simply chewed up everything and anything the Japanese sent.
To avoid potential damage to all the transports and supply ships, the strategy utilized to thin down the Japanese air attacks was to send all CV's out in front - well out in front - of the main invasion forces. I kept the main invasion forces, under cover of two CVE task forces - about 12 hexes away. Meanwhile, I sent in the CV's and one replenishment group with replenishment CVE's and parked them two hexes away from Tinian. I was hoping that the CV's would draw all the interest of the Japanese bombers, and they did. Additionally, I also did NOT have my aircraft attack any airfields during the first two days. Instead, I had everything on defensive CAP and kept all the carrier bombers on "naval attack" only. The goal simply was to either defeat the Japanese in air-to-air combat or having them get chewed up in the flak. Or to put it another way, I didn't want to reduce/dilute my fighter protection by sending out half of the fighters on raids against Japanese airfields - at least not at first.
Beginning on the third day, I moved in the rest of the invasion force to the same hex that the carriers were in - no small task considering there was nearly 70 TF's that I had to move one by one!! On this day I also started attacking the Japanese airfields in the Marianas. Due to the two days prior losses in air to air combat, resistance by Japanese fighters was negligible and Allies losses were light.
On the fifth day, I moved the three bombardment BB's into Rota and bombed Rota's ground units. The CVE task forces also moved in to Rota, reinforced by some LRCAP from the fleet carriers - which remained two hexes away. The BB's did their thing for two days, then the invasion forces moved in.
A day later, I repeated the process at Tinian - moving in the BB's for bombardment while covered by the two CVE task forces, followed by the invasion.
Saipan was a bit different. I waited until everything was secure on Rota and Tinian and had some land based air over each island. Then I moved in everything to Saipan, bombarded for several days, flew every carrier bomber against the ground units for several days, then invaded. Losses were virtually non-existent. Only one ship (unfortunately, an APA), was knocked out by the shore guns - although several others were banged up pretty good.
Keeping Supplied
The strategy of dragging along about 25 TK's to replenish the replenishment groups worked splendidly. Allied CV's have been on station for more than a month now, but are still able to draw fuel from fully fueled replenishment groups. Remember, the trick to keep your replenishment TF's fully replenished is to have a tanker TF's parked (does not need to be docked) in a friendly base hex. Then hit the replenishment button on the replenishment TF and presto, you're fully fueled. And don't forget the keep your AKE's and AE's fully stocked with supplies, too - as the Allied BB's will draw down the supplies quickly if you do lots of bombardment.
Setting Up the Supply Network
A new supply network will soon be setup. Allies will begin running routine convoys between Pearl Harbor and Saipan/Guam. I specifically pulled out the faster moving xAK's for this - speeds of 14 knots or greater. With 100 Naval Support at both Saipan and Guam, these supply groups should unload quickly - especially since these supply TF's will be amphibious TF's.
Also will be running between Pearl Harbor and Guam/Saipan will be several tanker TF's - sized appropriately for the port. Remember, all the naval support in the world doesn't help you unload tankers any faster. To unload tankers, they really need to be docked! For this reason, I'll likely be keeping a tanker TF stocked with fuel anchored at all times in Guam. It's purpose will be to provide continuous refueling for the replenishment groups that I have there. When it runs low on fuel, another one from LA will head out. Really, I'm unloading fuel on Guam and Saipan more for all the transport ships that will come and go, as well as the submarines that will soon be based there. A size 5 port is just too small to be actively used to keep the huge allied fleet fully refueled. For pure "fleet use," (the CV and BB TF's), most likely all fuel will continue to come from replenishment groups that will always be parked at Guam/Saipan (and which are then resupplied by the tanker TF's).
What's Next?
Pagan. This island is the one lone island that can still do some damage via air attacks on the fleet that is based in the Marianas. The Japanese have it very well defended - more so than Tinian and Rota, oddly enough. However, I need to invade Guam first, then move the land combat units slated for Pagan out to Guam. There the land forces that will invade Pagan will be unloaded, then reloaded on APA's and LST's. This will likely take a month or so.
As you can see, most likely I'll be basing virtually all APA's and LST's in the Marianas from now on. Land forces from the USA and Pearl Harbor that will needed for future invasions will first be moved to Guam and Saipan via xAP's. the 100+ Naval Support makes unloading these forces quite simple and relatively quick. Then they'll be reloaded on the APA's and LST's for the actual invasions. This saves an immense amount of time (LST's are horribly slow!) and lots of wear and tear on the invasion ships, too. To help keep things organized, I'll likely be utilizing both Guam and Saipan as bases for future invasions...but I suppose it's possible I might use Guam exclusively at some point.
After Pagan, I've targeted Iwo Jima, Ulithi, Woleai and a few other bases in that general area. Now that the Marianas are almost secure, I need to "broaden the wedge" in the Japanese defense perimeter as well as to allow for complete and unhindered control of the air and waters around the Marianas.
Other Stuff
The Indians and British are slogging through the jungle - they have a long ways to go, but are getting there, ever so slowly. Suspect it will be at least another month before anything exciting happens in Burma. However, the Brits are beginning to wrest control of the skies back from the Japanese. I guess the war of attrition the past few months has taken it's toll on Japanese aircraft/pilots - as the results are becoming more one-sided for the Allies now (at the beginning of the Burma Air Blitz by the Japanese a few months ago, they were really cleaning the Brits clock).
Sorry for the delay. But between doing lots in the game and Christmas travels, I never got around to posting the latest AAR. So...here it is.
Marianas Invasion
The invasion of Rota, Tinian and Saipan went off far, far better than I could have hoped. As intel showed, Rota and Tinian were lightly defended. In two days, Allied assault forces took the islands - allowing for a staging base for everything else and allowing Allied CV's and other vessels the ability to refuel/rearm while on station.
Saipan fell a week after Tinian and Rota were secured (Tinian was invaded one day after Rota). All in all, the invasion to secure these three islands - and allowing two days for bombardment - took only 10 days.
Saipan, much to my surprise, fell easily. For whatever reason, the AI didn't really garrison it. There were a lot of support units there, but not much in the way of infantry. But it really didn't matter, since the Allies had 5+ divisions, 4+ armor units, 3+ combat engineer units, and 4+ field artillery regiments. Combined with days and days of bombardment, the Jap forces on Saipan never had a chance. When the Allies invaded, the Japanese units were so badly disrupted that their combat defensive factor had dropped to less than 20 (they had around 300 AV there, give or take).
Guam
All that is left is Guam. After offloading all the units that are to participate in the Guam invasion at Rota (big mistake...Rota has a stacking limit of 60K men. I should have done this on Tinian instead!), I've begun reloading the units on APA's and LST's. 4 divisions are now loaded, along with two armor and one field artillery regiment. Just need to load up the support units and a few smaller combat units an everything will be ready.
Unlike the other islands, Guam is well defended. Intel shows the 21st division and a whole gaggle of other Japanese LCU's. So, invading Guam won't be the cake walk the other three islands were. That said, due to the daily bombardment by BB's and carrier aircraft, I suspect the disruption level of Japanese units on Guam will be very high - so I still anticipate taking the island relatively easily.
The offloading of all the units on Rota - despite the stacking problem - went off without a hitch. The "plan" to transport these units to Guam in xAP's, offload them, then reload them on APA's has worked to perfection. Due to having 300 Naval Support on Rota, all these units offloaded within a few turns. By dragging all these units to Rota, instead of keeping them at Pearl, I've saved a good 30+ days in the overall time line.
Air and Naval Resistance at the Marianas Plus Organization of Attack
There was no naval resistance at the Marianas at all, due to the decimated IJN. It's helpful that I invaded the Marianas so early. If I had waited until mid 1944 as was done historically, the japanese would have had quite a few more carriers (new ones) that they could have used to resist - however meager the resistance might have been. In any event, the lack of naval resistance was no surprise.
But what was a surprise was the total domination of the skies by the Allies. The Japanese had hundreds of planes on Guam, Tinian and Saipan each - figure a total of at least 700 planes. I was really expecting to take some losses to these planes, as I expected they had very high experience levels. But alas, my strategy worked - leading to basically another "Great Marianas Turkey Shoot." Only a handful of bombs ever were dropped, and those that were hit nothing except for a lone hit on a BB that caused slight damage (wasn't a BB slightly damaged by a bomb hit the real-life Turkey Shoot?). The Hellcats simply chewed up everything and anything the Japanese sent.
To avoid potential damage to all the transports and supply ships, the strategy utilized to thin down the Japanese air attacks was to send all CV's out in front - well out in front - of the main invasion forces. I kept the main invasion forces, under cover of two CVE task forces - about 12 hexes away. Meanwhile, I sent in the CV's and one replenishment group with replenishment CVE's and parked them two hexes away from Tinian. I was hoping that the CV's would draw all the interest of the Japanese bombers, and they did. Additionally, I also did NOT have my aircraft attack any airfields during the first two days. Instead, I had everything on defensive CAP and kept all the carrier bombers on "naval attack" only. The goal simply was to either defeat the Japanese in air-to-air combat or having them get chewed up in the flak. Or to put it another way, I didn't want to reduce/dilute my fighter protection by sending out half of the fighters on raids against Japanese airfields - at least not at first.
Beginning on the third day, I moved in the rest of the invasion force to the same hex that the carriers were in - no small task considering there was nearly 70 TF's that I had to move one by one!! On this day I also started attacking the Japanese airfields in the Marianas. Due to the two days prior losses in air to air combat, resistance by Japanese fighters was negligible and Allies losses were light.
On the fifth day, I moved the three bombardment BB's into Rota and bombed Rota's ground units. The CVE task forces also moved in to Rota, reinforced by some LRCAP from the fleet carriers - which remained two hexes away. The BB's did their thing for two days, then the invasion forces moved in.
A day later, I repeated the process at Tinian - moving in the BB's for bombardment while covered by the two CVE task forces, followed by the invasion.
Saipan was a bit different. I waited until everything was secure on Rota and Tinian and had some land based air over each island. Then I moved in everything to Saipan, bombarded for several days, flew every carrier bomber against the ground units for several days, then invaded. Losses were virtually non-existent. Only one ship (unfortunately, an APA), was knocked out by the shore guns - although several others were banged up pretty good.
Keeping Supplied
The strategy of dragging along about 25 TK's to replenish the replenishment groups worked splendidly. Allied CV's have been on station for more than a month now, but are still able to draw fuel from fully fueled replenishment groups. Remember, the trick to keep your replenishment TF's fully replenished is to have a tanker TF's parked (does not need to be docked) in a friendly base hex. Then hit the replenishment button on the replenishment TF and presto, you're fully fueled. And don't forget the keep your AKE's and AE's fully stocked with supplies, too - as the Allied BB's will draw down the supplies quickly if you do lots of bombardment.
Setting Up the Supply Network
A new supply network will soon be setup. Allies will begin running routine convoys between Pearl Harbor and Saipan/Guam. I specifically pulled out the faster moving xAK's for this - speeds of 14 knots or greater. With 100 Naval Support at both Saipan and Guam, these supply groups should unload quickly - especially since these supply TF's will be amphibious TF's.
Also will be running between Pearl Harbor and Guam/Saipan will be several tanker TF's - sized appropriately for the port. Remember, all the naval support in the world doesn't help you unload tankers any faster. To unload tankers, they really need to be docked! For this reason, I'll likely be keeping a tanker TF stocked with fuel anchored at all times in Guam. It's purpose will be to provide continuous refueling for the replenishment groups that I have there. When it runs low on fuel, another one from LA will head out. Really, I'm unloading fuel on Guam and Saipan more for all the transport ships that will come and go, as well as the submarines that will soon be based there. A size 5 port is just too small to be actively used to keep the huge allied fleet fully refueled. For pure "fleet use," (the CV and BB TF's), most likely all fuel will continue to come from replenishment groups that will always be parked at Guam/Saipan (and which are then resupplied by the tanker TF's).
What's Next?
Pagan. This island is the one lone island that can still do some damage via air attacks on the fleet that is based in the Marianas. The Japanese have it very well defended - more so than Tinian and Rota, oddly enough. However, I need to invade Guam first, then move the land combat units slated for Pagan out to Guam. There the land forces that will invade Pagan will be unloaded, then reloaded on APA's and LST's. This will likely take a month or so.
As you can see, most likely I'll be basing virtually all APA's and LST's in the Marianas from now on. Land forces from the USA and Pearl Harbor that will needed for future invasions will first be moved to Guam and Saipan via xAP's. the 100+ Naval Support makes unloading these forces quite simple and relatively quick. Then they'll be reloaded on the APA's and LST's for the actual invasions. This saves an immense amount of time (LST's are horribly slow!) and lots of wear and tear on the invasion ships, too. To help keep things organized, I'll likely be utilizing both Guam and Saipan as bases for future invasions...but I suppose it's possible I might use Guam exclusively at some point.
After Pagan, I've targeted Iwo Jima, Ulithi, Woleai and a few other bases in that general area. Now that the Marianas are almost secure, I need to "broaden the wedge" in the Japanese defense perimeter as well as to allow for complete and unhindered control of the air and waters around the Marianas.
Other Stuff
The Indians and British are slogging through the jungle - they have a long ways to go, but are getting there, ever so slowly. Suspect it will be at least another month before anything exciting happens in Burma. However, the Brits are beginning to wrest control of the skies back from the Japanese. I guess the war of attrition the past few months has taken it's toll on Japanese aircraft/pilots - as the results are becoming more one-sided for the Allies now (at the beginning of the Burma Air Blitz by the Japanese a few months ago, they were really cleaning the Brits clock).
RE: Ramblings on CV's and Strategy
ORIGINAL: Oehm
Also thanks for this great AAR! It's my first game with the AE and you help me to prevent many mistakes!!
Best wishes for 2010 and that the AAR will be continued for a long, long time[:)]
Hi,
I'm glad you find the AAR useful. Not sure how much longer it will go one for, but at least through 1943, for sure. I have started - first turn only so far - a new game against the AI. I might put up an AAR for that when this game is done and I start actively playing that game.
Organization and Naming of TF's in Large Invasions
ORIGINAL: Galahad78
Thanks for the heads-up, for a newbie like me this kind of strategic stuff is priceless! [&o]
By the way, I like the way you're planning the logistic for Guam forces. As you say, if there is no strange problems regarding low unload rates because of port sizes, etc., that will save you a lot of time and wear and tear in your vessels.
Are the invasions already underway?
I didn't run into any unexpected problems unloading everything - except for forgetting about Rota's 60K man limit! Thus, when you do it in your game, be sure to use Tinian or Saipan as the "unload place" for forces, since these islands don't have the stacking limit. But in terms of speed, I'd say all these forces unloaded from their xAP's in three days or less. And they loaded up on their APA's and LST's just as quickly as they do in Pearl Harbor due to all the naval support.
Really, the larger challenge in the invasion of the Marianas was the organization of everything. Trying to keep track of 70+ TF's isn't easy! Thankfully, AE allows you to name TF's. Thus, I named each invasion and supply task force in a way that let me know what TF was supposed to do what.
For example, I had five TF's dropping off land units in Saipan. They were numbered like this:
Saipan Invasion TF1
Saipan Invasion TF2, etc..
Reason for the naming like this isn't just to find stuff easier - although that is a big reason! Remember, the order your forces unload is dictated by TF number. Since these TF's didn't have a number, they unloaded by their alphabetical listing, instead. Thus, by organizing and naming my invasion TF's this way, I was able to insure that my two Marine Divisions offloaded first (which were loaded in Saipan Invasion TF1 and 2), then all the rest.
Other naming conventions I used sort of went like this:
Saipan follow-on TF 1 (for unloading base units, engineers, AA units, etc..)
Saipan Amphib Supply TF 1 (for unloading supplies at the same time the invasion happens)
Saipan Air Transport TF
Saipan Tanker TF
Anyways, just some ideas for your future campaign game.
RE: Organization and Naming of TF's in Large Invasions
ORIGINAL: jimh009
For example, I had five TF's dropping off land units in Saipan. They were numbered like this:
Saipan Invasion TF1
Saipan Invasion TF2, etc..
Reason for the naming like this isn't just to find stuff easier - although that is a big reason! Remember, the order your forces unload is dictated by TF number. Since these TF's didn't have a number, they unloaded by their alphabetical listing, instead. Thus, by organizing and naming my invasion TF's this way, I was able to insure that my two Marine Divisions offloaded first (which were loaded in Saipan Invasion TF1 and 2), then all the rest.
Damn! Is it so easy??? And I've searching the reason why my forces kept unloading base forces before infantry (with the consecuences you can imagine [:D]).
I have started to use your same strategy in my Guadalcanal scenario, sending the CVs first as decoy/trap to draw Betties' attention away from my resupply and landing forces. CAP will deal with near all Betties before they can arrive to my ships. Risky, perhaps, but my LBA LRCAP doesn't seem to work very well (experience levels, I guess).
RE: Organization and Naming of TF's in Large Invasions
ORIGINAL: Galahad78
Damn! Is it so easy??? And I've searching the reason why my forces kept unloading base forces before infantry (with the consecuences you can imagine [:D]).
I have started to use your same strategy in my Guadalcanal scenario, sending the CVs first as decoy/trap to draw Betties' attention away from my resupply and landing forces. CAP will deal with near all Betties before they can arrive to my ships. Risky, perhaps, but my LBA LRCAP doesn't seem to work very well (experience levels, I guess).
Well, you also need to be careful. I always unload invasion forces first. I usually do NOT unload follow-on support forces until the base has actually been taken. Thus, a typical example for invading an island (atolls in particular) might work like this:
1. Day 1 - Invasion forces land.
2. Day 2 - Invasion forces attack. If base captured then...
3. Day 3 - Unload all other forces
The good news is that in AE your follow-on forces usually don't get decimated even if you don't hold the base yet. Thus, I have landed some support forces right away with the invasion forces - especially in Rota where I just unloaded everything in one-fell swoop. But if you do, always make sure they land in later-numbered task forces. Also, never unload support forces in the Day 1 invasion of an atoll. For taking atolls, only land combat forces. Atolls are too small to land everything at once.
RE: Organization and Naming of TF's in Large Invasions
Good day Jimh009!
Any development in this game, or are you already playing the new one? [;)]
Any development in this game, or are you already playing the new one? [;)]