War Reports from the Eastern Front: Carnage vs Redmarkus

[CarnageINC]

I canceled my Ares II Ops. I know a lot of you would like to see Moscow fall but I just know I would get so close and then have to withdraw for a better position come winter time. Instead I'm looking for depth in my ground. I'm really concerned about the Sumy Front, its to close to the Dnepr for my liking.

[CarnageINC]

Here is the stagnet part of the war. I'm bring 1st Panzer and 2nd & 3rd Panzers here to create some depth, but I'm sure I won't have enough time to do so.

[CarnageINC]

I extracted my forces and reverse pocketed his. I made some temporarily isolated so that should slow him down some when I start driving my 1st Panzer's north. I airdropped to the farthest 2 units again.

[CarnageINC]

Still pushing east, should be okay for the winter here I don't think he will commit many troops here.

[Mynok]

You using those forts for digging only I trust?

[Klydon]

It is unfortunate that he is mostly using a "every solder on the front" mentality because the Russians simply did not do that. He is playing more like later war Germans that had a hard crust, but few to no back up positions. The Russians build multiple defensive lines, especially in front of Moscow. The Germans would break one line only to find another in their way. Kursk was certainly that way where the Russians had defensive line after defensive line.

He is getting enough re-enforcements now where Carnage is not attacking across the entire front because he is too weak to do so. It is starting to look ugly north of Rzhev. Single 7 and 8 point infantry divisions are not doing much with that. I think Carnage made a wise decision to cancel going for Moscow and at least he has a couple of turns to try to clear up the issues in the center before the weather gets bad.

Carnage may also not get Leningrad in 1941, but he is going to have it thinned down enough where hopefully Leningrad won't risk an attack during the blizzard because they don't have enough troops and he can keep things close there and make that one of the first targets for 1942. Who knows, he may still get lucky there, especially during snow, but the odds are against cleaning it out in time. I think he will still need some more troops up there to keep the pressure on and be able to withdraw 4th panzer army.

[notenome]

If you take the ports on the Leningrad land bridge coast you can still isolate the city. Since you're planning on attacking the fortifications anyways, and red doesn't defend in depth, that's what I would do.

[jjdenver]

ORIGINAL: notenome
Put it to you this way, the Soviet army pulling back 100 miles is far more unrealistic than any checkerboard. When, during all of WWII, was any Soviet general allowed to give up ground for any reason?

Yes. One good example is the Soviet retreat in the south during summer of 42. As Glantz says on page 27 of "Colossus Reborn": "Finally acknowledging that the German summer offensive was actually taking place in southern Russia [my note: previously Stalin expected it against Moskva], Stalin altered his strategy a week after Operation Blau began. He ordered his Southwestern and Southern Fronts to withdraw their decimated forces eastward toward the Don River, Stalingrad, and Rostov..."

And the Germans did the same later in 42. It's not accurate to say that either side "never" permitted retreat. Of course they did.

I don't disagree w/ some of the posts about game balance, historical results in winter if Germans choose a non-historical strategy, etc, etc - but certainly the Red Army was not above retreating when it obviously should retreat.

[notenome]

I believe it is Glantz himself who sais that the Red Army posture after Kharkov was not a retreat (like redmarcus has done) but a delaying action/fighting withdrawl, which included some fairly massive tank battles for good measure.

[CarnageINC]

Hello here is the turn 15 report.

[CarnageINC]

I'm not an expert by far, but I thought I was doing well. I looked at the casualty list and this shows that what ever Red defense is like its got me short a million where I would like to be. The death by a thousand cuts just isn't cutting it. I expect his winter offensive to be brutal with these numbers.

Looking back there are a few things I would of liked to do different but there really isn't IMO much I could of done to make up a million more KIA/POW. Anyone see something that I don't? Do please tell.

[CarnageINC]

This shows that I'm having a harder time pushing Red back. In the north I'm almost stagnate in my movements. I forgot to label the line...AHHHH
...anyway there about a month apart, every 5 turns to be exact. Yellow is the start line, black is turn 5, red turn 10, green turn 15.

[hfarrish]

Very interesting thread - currently engaged in PBEM GC as Soviets and leads me to a question - I haven't generally used checkerboard (aside from delaying units in cities/strongpoints as I retreat) primarily because my opponent did a fantastic job wiping out huge pockets on turn 1; plus having never played as the Soviets before at all I'm sure I made some bungled calls here and there.  In any case, I barely had enough units after the first turn to man a linear defense along a Dneptrovosk - Kiev - Smolensk axis on the Dnepr...which worked in drastically slowing down the enemy offensive for weeks but also led to pockets when the line finally collapsed.  I guess my question is this - if forced to make a choice between checkerboard and holding (and heavily fortifying) each hex along a major river, which one would you guys pick?  Despite my losses in pockets when the line finally collapsed, its not clear to me, at least, that I made the wrong call in going linear.

I did invest in making two backup defensive lines in front of Moscow (not checkerboard, but rather new linear cadres digging in on the next river), and my Leningrad defenses seem solid.  Its in the South where potential issues lurk.

[CarnageINC]

For a operation that wasn't suppose to go anywhere this one sure did. I'm sure if I had thrown more troops in this area instead of the south I would of been a lot better off here. I might have made it, but who knows. I'm going to remove 4th Panzer from this area come summer and thrown it down in AGS to assist 1st Pz Grp and drive toward the Don and maybe Baku but I need to take Rostov for that to happen I think.

[CarnageINC]

Im glad I stopped Operation Ares, my lines were a mess and I hate having my panzers up front doing all the work. I think I'm going to be much better off for the winter now that I'm organizing them. Next year I'll be better about my movements, I've never been this messy yet about how I move my Corps around.

[CarnageINC]

Again, this is my most disappointing front. I was going to bring 4th Panzer Group here and push toward Kharkov but Leningrad was just going well enough to justify having them there. Rats! [:@] I'm shifting everyone north a tad to make some reserves or do a linebacker defense. I'm not sure what kind of defenses to use where I think one the line sets up I'll decide who goes where and does what.

[CarnageINC]

Time was against me here. I did make some good ground in the very southern sector, but I don't like being so near to the Dnepr as I am now. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to fall behind it for defense but I'm sure that I will.

[CarnageINC]

I'm going to push forward in the snow here and get as much depth as possible. I don't think he will push hard here just because he hasn't commited enough units to protect it. I'm sure driving toward the land bridges behind my frontlines here will be a priority for Red. I might send a Corps or two back to assist in protecting it, otherwise I'll have to retreat all the way back out and it will have been all for not. Gads I hope I can hold it!

[CarnageINC]

ORIGINAL: hfarrish

  I guess my question is this - if forced to make a choice between checkerboard and holding (and heavily fortifying) each hex along a major river, which one would you guys pick? 

I would go linear, for a checker board I would be able to cross using my full MP's into the vacant hex then attack the next turn without the penalties for major rivers.

[hfarrish]

Thanks - confirms my thinking that it would have been insane to give up major river frontage. Having watched this thread has only increased my determination to build rear area lines, which have been my saving grace all along.

We aren't quite as far along as your game so hopefully my nemesis doesn't blast my lines all over the place like you have...nice work.