GC 76mm (Sov) vs Ketza (Ketza Welcome)

[kirkgregerson]

No sure why your loses are so high.  I've never seen anything as Axis or Allied even near what your game is displaying.  Wonder what is so different that would lead to these very high loses?  

[hfarrish]

I just started a '43 Campaign and after 3.5 Turns (i.e. German player just sent me Turn 4), I have lost nearly 1760 aircraft to his 150. Nothing really seems to explain this vast differential in losses, which is worse than what I am experiencing in a '41 campaign! To make things even more interesting, there was only actual combat for two of those turns...

[76mm]

For this turn, I cannot post a screen shot of air losses, because after I looked at them once, they reset to zero...kind of frustrating. But the numbers were 600+ losses for me, vs 23 for him, so almost a 30:1 loss ratio. That can't last. I will dial back interdiction doctrine to 100%, but doubt that is the main reason. I looked at the interdiction attacks shown in the screenshot above, and losses were less than 60 aircraft. While there were many other interdiction attacks across the front, these on the screenshot were probably at least half the total. Where are the rest of the losses coming from?

Someone suggesting that I look at the training losses, so I did so: there were 2856 training missions, and 408 planes were damaged, and 147 were destroyed. I guess that would account for more than 550 of the 600+ losses. Can that be right? 20% losses just during training missions (and this during good weather). Are they being sucked into some time-space vortex, or what? It sure seems like training losses should be much lower, I don't know, maybe 1%? Isn't the whole point of training to do something easy so you get better at it without taking too much risk?

[76mm]

During my turn, I was interdicted four times in a row, and the air losses during these attacks were typical of what I've been seeing:
Four interdiction attacks, with a total of 161 German sorties vs 83 Russian sorties. Losses: zero German losses vs 16 Russian losses. That kind of thing adds up. While looking at this data, I clicked on one of the successful ground attacks that he launched last turn just to take a look: 297 German planes vs 301 Sov planes; he lost one, I lost 67! Give me a break!

[76mm]

During the same turn, but on a differnt part of the front, I was again interdicted several times while moving my troops, but in this sector it was the Germans that took one or two losses every mission, and I didn't lose any. Weird, maybe it depends on the air commanders, etc.

[DTurtle]

Under the "Battles" screen of the Commander's Report, you can switch to air losses (in the top right), which will give you an overview of the losses that took place during all the battles of the turn (including battles that took place during his turn).

Then it should be easy to find where all the losses are coming from.

I think that only the "destroyed" aircraft during training count towards losses. The damaged ones should be repaired and not permanently lost - though it wouldn't surprise me if some of them were written off.

It might be worth checking the battles in the commander's report + the losses due to training and seeing if they add up.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: DTurtle

Under the "Battles" screen of the Commander's Report, you can switch to air losses (in the top right), which will give you an overview of the losses that took place during all the battles of the turn (including battles that took place during his turn).

Thanks, didn't notice that you could switch to show air losses, that will be very helpful!

[abulbulian]

76mm, you must have save a good deal of your air production as you still have a large AF considering the loses. Which leads me to wonder the potential size of the Soviet AF if the loses were not this high. Kind of scary for 1942? But it seems the exp of the Luftwaffe hasn't been diminished enough for the Soviet numbers to be much of a factor?

Either way, you two have the best tandem of AARs I've seen to date! Kudos and keep it up.

[&o]

PS: enjoyed your pics from your recent trip to Russia.

[76mm]

I think I saved all of my air production but frankly am not sure, because I wasn't really paying attention. If there is any air production in Lgrad or the Stalino area I lost it, otherwise I probably saved it.

Finished Turn 59, but forgot to take screenshots, but that's OK because I already showed the most important thing, Ketza's withdrawal in the south. I was rather surprised by this, and as mentioned in a previous post, if he had not withdrawn I had in fact planned to do so myself. This game is very mental...

Anyway, so what does this mean? Is this the end of the German 1942 offensive? Is it the end of any German offensives? I guess we will see, but Ketza is pretty agressive and I doubt that we have seen the last of his attacks. In fact, due to concentrating on his push in the south, many parts of my line are stretched rather thin and are seriously vulnerable to a multi-panzer-corps attack. Large pockets could be in my future.

That said, my army is much much stronger than it was several turns ago. Not sure why, but the CVs have really crept up. The problem now is that his forces over most of the front have been digging in for several turns, and now it is hard to find any of his units in less than a level 3 fort, often level 4, with CVs of 40 or more. These are still hard nuts to crack, I will need more corps to do so.

I have a disciplined approach for using my APs: I build one rifle corp per turn, currently only in the Shock or Reserve Fronts, build a few new rifle divisions to replace divisions lost during the spring encirclements, and then have a few AP left over to build SU, transfer units, create cavalry corps, etc. I would like to build more tank corps but can't really use them now because of the static nature of the front, and I already have a truck deficit which I don't want to aggravate yet. I think I'll be building rifle corps until the fall--I really need to grind down his force through attrition for a while before cracking the line and being able to make decent penetrations.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: abulbulian
But it seems the exp of the Luftwaffe hasn't been diminished enough for the Soviet numbers to be much of a factor?

Well, I don't expect my airforce to be as good as the Luftwaffe, but I also don't expect losses of 67:1! I know it is just one battle, but it is just slightly more extreme than the aggregate turn losses I'm seeing. I will have to look at the air losses in the commanders report next turn (forgot this turn).

ORIGINAL: abulbulian
PS: enjoyed your pics from your recent trip to Russia.

I live in Moscow, so technically not a trip TO Russia, but IN Russia! [8D]

I travel a fair bit here, but have not been to many WWII (or rather Great Patriotic War) sites.

[Flaviusx]

If he decides to turtle on you, it's going to be a very quiet 1942. Can't really generate a lot of momentum until you get your rifle corps and artillery divisions. If you aren't careful, you could even be suckered into a backhand blow situation.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

If he decides to turtle on you, it's going to be a very quiet 1942...If you aren't careful, you could even be suckered into a backhand blow situation.

I can't see him being that passive, I expect some attacks somewhere, at least until I get my defenses sorted out again. As mentioned, I have thin parts of my line which would be tempting targets for him.

Definitely aware of back-hand-blow potential, that's why I want to just grind away for the summer until my army is better, so I can present fewer open-field opportunities. If this is how I play it, it will be kind of a boring summer, but I'm not sure how many viable options I really have. And besides, summer is half over!

[randallw]

Air units don't train up very well in the national reserve; Soviet units sitting in it may only be in the low 50's for experience even if they have been there for about 5 or 6 months.

Getting killed in those air combat ratios sounds like the German air units may be way up there in experience, maybe upper 80's or low 90's?

Don't forget to build those ant brigades into divisions!

[76mm]

Unlike some on this forum, I kind of liked having the brigades during the fall, winter, and spring.

But I've gradually been combining them into divisions and by now I don't have many left on most sectors of the front with the exception of a couple of "checkerboard corps"--ie airborne corps filled with abn or rifle brigades which I try to deploy in checkerboard formation behind threatened sectors.

[abulbulian]

How are things going here? Been a few days without some action?

[:(]

[76mm]

Waiting on a turn from Ketza. But bad news, I'm going on vacation soon, so there will be a break from at least June 9 till June 20.

[76mm]

Turn 60 almost over, I might tweak a few more things. Not much going on--his panzer divs have sort of disappeared, dispersed, my panzer count picked up a few here there, but no major concentrations. Not sure if that is good or bad...

My air losses continue to be massive; now that I know you can show air losses in the battle screen in the commanders report, I see that he has bombed many of my bases, with me suffering massive losses for very few of his (I lost 95, he lost 16). I tried bombing some of his bases, got slaughtered. I've decided AA units in the Air HQs might help, so I'm building those out. Hopefully they'll help. I also lost 35 aircraft in partisan supply missions. This seems really heavy to me, dunno.

On the ground front, I have been repositioning, not sure what he is doing. I launched a handful of attacks, some successful, some not, but I am having a hard time finding places where my 8-10 CV stacks can take on his 50-70 CV stacks (with forts). I need more rifle corps, but it will be a looong process to build up enough of them. I expect some kind of attack by Ketza, otherwise things could be a bit tedious for a couple of months here as I build rifle corps.

I go on vacation at the end of this week, so you won't see much on this thread for a while.

[Flaviusx]

You will need artillery divisions to really crack his line if he turtles up hard on you. It's unlikely you will be able to do much until 1943.

Note the early rifle corps has a very poor TOE. Not until October do you get a good one. It's also costing you 20 APs a pop to put one out as opposed to 10 in 1943. You may be better off waiting a bit to make these if other things need attending to.

Withdraw you air bases beyond his escort range. The fundamental problem the early Red Air force has is the 20 aircraft regiment structure. This makes the units extremely fragile; they become substantially more robust when they go up to 32 planes and eventually 40. Building AA definitely helps, too.

[randallw]

Try to put the air bases about 20 hexes behind the front line; some of the better German fighter types can't reach that far.  If your opponent wants to bomb you he'll have to do it with the support of just the lousy twin engine fighter types, like the Bf-110.

[76mm]

Thanks to Flavious and randallw for the idea of moving the airbases back; one of those simple things that simply never occurred to me...duh!

I'll move them back and then end the turn.

I seriously doubt we'll just be sitting around until 1943, I expect some kind of fireworks, but the fact that he seems to have dispersed his panzers would seem to indicate otherwise. I will try the panzer count again next turn, I did not find all of them this turn.