Pass the Kryptonite - Oleg's Supermen are coming! 1943 AAR.

[ComradeP]

Mynok, could you post a screenshot of all sectors of the front, in a zoom level that displays CV's? We'll always be here for advise, but of course we can't really give it until we know what your situation is like. Are you still in control of the town at X 99 Y 117 (I believe) on the Crimea? You could move some forces out by naval transport. Also: is there a reason why you can't move the forces out of the Crimea by rail?

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

OK, enough is enough.

I surrender. Oleg beat me fair and square.

I have apologised to Oleg for wasting his time twice, privately. Which I felt would be sufficient, but now it seems I must make a public apology too, as my last act on these forums for a while.

My time as a tester has come to an end. I have thouroughly enjoyed the last 14 months, and have done my best to make a great game better, but all good things must come to an end. It is unfortunate that this has coincided with a game that I decided to make public, because I genuinely believed it would show that the Axis can survive a very tough situation.

I made a mistake. I am human. I am sorry to have wasted Oleg's time. Oleg is a good player. I asked him to keep the contents of my e-mail confidential, but he has decided to take this thread in this particular direction. Well that is his choice, and he obviously has his own agenda that I am not privy to.

Please no more Beta tester bashing - they are are great bunch of guys, and it has been a pleasure to work and play with them.

@Bob Speaking as a foreigner ( English not Cornish for other readers. The Cornish see them selves as very different -Celtic fringe etc and can get a bit upset if genetic testing indicates they are as mongrel as some of the rest of us) you have my sympathy. Breaching confidentiality in this way is unforgiveable especially in such a hostile way.

This game is a work in progress and it will be our loss if you drop out of it.

@ everyone else

All my GC PBEM opponents so far have surrendered -the first on T3 which may be a record- though my current 2 have agreed not to and I won't either. It seems to me that the test of balance is to replay swapping sides and compare results. If I win or lose both times then it's more likely to be the better player winning. I know not an exact science with all the updates coming out but I'm a few years off retirement still.

I have to say I'm not really interested in the later scenarios because result should be Germans wiped out. The only real point for me would be and to compare results.

Perhaps the lesson is to agree in advance about when it is or is not OK to quit and then hope the other player sticks to it. I promise I will.

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Mynok, could you post a screenshot of all sectors of the front, in a zoom level that displays CV's? We'll always be here for advise, but of course we can't really give it until we know what your situation is like. Are you still in control of the town at X 99 Y 117 (I believe) on the Crimea? You could move some forces out by naval transport. Also: is there a reason why you can't move the forces out of the Crimea by rail?

Certainly. I'll post shortly. And I hadn't even thought of rail. Gotta remember it isn't '41. [:D]

[Encircled]

Looking forward to it

[Mynok]

Here's the sitrep.

[Mynok]

There we go. Full frontal exposure. [:D]

Some of my thoughts here. First, I really need to start activating the leftovers of 3rd Panzer as he has a large contingent of goons staged in that zone. Looks like Bob had already started doing this, so I'll continue.

In the center down to the marshes, we are pulling back to the Dnepr immediately. Right flank of 8th army will echelon a bit to cover the withdrawal of 2nd army and the remnants of 9th army. What a shadow of their former selves that latter one is. [X(] The poor inf div way out in the end of the pocket will be left behind. It is doomed.

Seriously pondering some consolidation in this sector. There are a bunch of formations with minimal troops assigned. Thoughts on this? 4th Panzer army is a remnant, as are both 2nd and 9th army. Combine them all and disband the extra HQs for some much needed manpower? Thoughts?

A retreat to the Dnepr and Kiev for the Hungarians and Army Det Kempf (say what? Who are these guys? Look like 8th army, smell like desparation.).

1st Panzer and 6th army are going to have to be my go-to guys to hold the Dnepropetrovsk breach. Not at all sure they can do it really. I'll be retreating the infantry to shorten lines and pulling the panzers back into reserve (yet another thing I have to learn about). The panzers have decent CVs despite relatively low TOE levels. He doesn't appear to have his massive arty tube farms down here so maybe there is hope for a few turns of delay.

17th army is so screwed. There's no bloody rail anywhere in the vicinity and there's nothing between the Soviets and their supply lines but a lone panzer div and some rabbit food. The only good news is there's a shortage of mech and armor down there for the Bols. Not for long I'd suspect.

That poor little Rumanian cav div stuck in the Crimea is going to run for the port nearby and see if it can catch a short bus to Odessa. [:D]

Alrighty gents...this is where you come in with the sage strategies that will keep me from yelling BOHICA every turn.

[TulliusDetritus]

Why don't you simply start from scracth? A new fresh game [:)] 14 turns are not a lot.

Or a point has to be proven?

[Mynok]

I certainly have no point to prove. I'm here to learn the hard way what the red hordes will look like down the road. [:D]

[ComradeP]

I'm not sure I see the problem you see with 17th Army. Based on the MP values in that screenshot, all or most of them should be able to move across the Dnepr this turn (it takes 9 MP's to cross it for the stack with 5-13 furthest to the south, for example). Still, moving into the swamp hexes is good enough if you have a desire to stay on the eastern/southern bank of the Dnepr for another turn. Move the Slovakian division into the enemy hex next to it and then across the Dnepr.

There are plenty of LW Field units in the AGS area, I suggest disbanding all of them, but not quite yet. Wait until the mud, the same goes for any HQ or support unit disbanding you want to do. The reason is pretty simple: the Soviets won't be able to attack in the mud, so replacements can actually go where you want them to if you als manipulate TOE% settings. You don't have the risk of the Soviets simply bulldozing a division you just refitted. The same reason applies to my advise not to merge any divisions/de facto disbanding them just yet.

I'd also suggest setting everything to 50% TOE, aside from a few units you want to get back up to strength. This is especially critical for your mobile units if you want to have at least some units in fighting shape. Even though counterattacks don't really leave much of an impression, they are still needed and your mobile units will be the ones making them. Replacement management is essential in a scenario like this.

Pull all mobile units out of the frontline.

Just pull back a bit in the Krivoi Rog>Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye triangle. He has his bridgehead, you're not going to throw him across the Dnepr again, so just fall back 2-3 hexes each turn, so that on the third turn you move behind the Ingulets. That should also be one of the last clear weather turns.

Evacuate what you can from that salient northwest of Sumy, but move the other units in the area back. He'll close the pocket no matter what next turn, no need to waste forces trying to keep it open in vain.

Form a line from the 7-38 Panzer division south of the Dnepr south towards the Uday river. Pull the Hungarians back 2-3 hexes and Army Det. Kempf back across the Dnepr.

Pull the guys north of Chernigov up to the guys north of Gomel back 2-3 hexes or across the Dnepr.

Move the 4th Army guys north of Mogilev across the Drut, with a line two hexes to the west from Mogilev, then across the Drut and then 4 hexes north to positions assisting 3rd Panzer Army. Activate the 5-1, 8-1 and 4-1 infantry divisions south of Vitebsk and move them back 3 hexes or so. Move the 5-1 infantry division next to Vitebsk into Vitebsk and the security unit(s) out.

Pulling back 2-3 hexes with the infantry is a better idea than holding a secondary line with mobile units.

It should be perfectly possible to keep the Soviets well east of their 1944 start point in the Ukraine, but they'll be possibly two dozen hexes west of the Dnepr at the end of winter, which isn't necessarily a problem as it also straightens the line.

In the mud and winter, I'd suggest getting AGN to its 1944 start positions, or possibly even pulling it back all the way to the Daugava. There are two ways to move AGN at some speed, one requires reactivation and one doesn't. The way that doesn't require activation is to rail some reasonable CV divisions up there before the mud, split them up, let them hold the forts the static units are holding and moving them to a nearby rail hex. Keep in mind that even if raillines to the south are mostly cut by partisans for some reason, you can also rail the units to a port and have the Kriegsmarine sealift them elsewhere.

[Klydon]

Sound advice from ComradeP. I would also suggest looking over your support units and where they are. I don't know at this point if it is worth having every type of support unit there is or if you are better off disbanding some of them and letting their elements go back into the pool to recycle into regular TOE's. I would certainly look at getting some of the more nasty armor support units (like your Tigers for example) into some good panzer units, etc which should help punch them up quite a bit hopefully. Obviously with command points being tight at the moment reactivating units, this can be a tall order, but making some adjustment would likely be beneficial. 

[Tarhunnas]

Interesting that the problems Mynok have are the opposite of those I have in my campaign. I have long since activated all the units in the northern sector and replaced all commanders I don't want, so I have way more AP than I can use. And I have a big armaments problem but no lack of manpower.

Edit: For some reason I can't see the picture in #205.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Mynok

Here's the sitrep.

No picture...


Leo "Apollo11"

[ComradeP]

I don't know at this point if it is worth having every type of support unit there is or if you are better off disbanding some of them and letting their elements go back into the pool to recycle into regular TOE's.

I'm not sure what Bob has already disbanded, but I'd advise disbanding most of the regular artillery battalions, aside from the 10 90 morale/experience ones you start with if they're still around. Distribute the Nebelwerfer units to your mobile unit corps. Ideally, your mobile units will never again be attacked by large quantities of artillery so the rocket units should be fairly safe from counterbattery fire.

Disband all AA units that don't have 88's, the VVS is already "too big to fail", your divisions have reasonable AA of their own and AA is generally underwhelming to begin with. You could consider not disbanding the motorized AA units that upgrade in 1944, but that would be up to you.

I'd suggest not disbanding engineer or other combat support units.

As partisan attacks decrease and your lines shorten, you could consider disbanding construction units, although I'd say you could also keep them around to help you build forts. Forts are probably worth more than the few hundred men you get from each of the construction units. On the other hand, when you get close to Germany you can disband the FBD units.

You can consider disbanding Finnish AA units too and moving the Finns on the Svir back, gradually, to Sortavala/Janisjarvi and X 82 Y 0 to shorten your line and free up troops. You can rail the static units in Finland proper there too. If you use primarily brigades, you only need 2 divisions in that area, the rest can move to the border near Leningrad to help out there, where they'll probably be needed more. The Finnish towns of Savonlinna and Imatra (that can trigger a Finnish surrender) are fairly close to that line, but I doubt he's going to capture them quickly.

Remember to start preparing defences between the border and Vyborg. If this were the 1941-1945 campaign, you would have rows of level 5 forts in place, but it isn't so your men need to start digging. Holding Vyborg for as long as possible is essential. You can't completely prevent the Finns from surrendering, but you can reduce the chance that they will to 1/10.

[Aditia]

Why would you disband artillery units when you have plenty of armament points? The Germans are desparately short on manpower, but that's about it

[Klydon]

The AA units and some of the others he mentions also use up manpower. 

[Aditia]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

The AA units and some of the others he mentions also use up manpower. 

To the extent you should disband them? I thought the purpose of adjusting TOE of stuff that uses tubes was to direct armament points towards rifle squads. Disbanding force multiplying units so 1 in 3 of the men you free up will carry a gun and 2 in 3 will be an extra truck driver/cook seems silly to me

[ComradeP]

Why would you disband artillery units when you have plenty of armament points? The Germans are desparately short on manpower, but that's about it

Because they get zapped by artillery divisions, are small and thus fragile and are always refitting so they can suck up a lot of replacements. Many artillery units also don't add anything your division doesn't already have, they're just another battalion of 150mm's. 12 guns can hardly be called a "force multiplier".

Efficiency comes from having fewer, stronger units, not from having a number of good units (the on-map ones) and a large number of fragile ones (support units).

[Aditia]

btw, when reserve commitment and defensive SU commitment issues get fixed, that should provide a very different twist to this scenario. it should make the german lines much stronger

[Mynok]

Well, I'm sending it off to Oleg. Really think I'm going to lose 3 inf divs down in that problem zone, maybe more. My finest could not make a dent in his front to open up more space for units to retreat. None.

What a learning experience this will be.

Thanks for all contributions. Please keep them coming. I'll post smaller maps in the future since my big one seems to have been problematic.

[PeeDeeAitch]

-edit- too lat