Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

1) Should you be forming more Tank Bdes and Rifle units?

1a) IMO, you get more Tank Bdes than you can realistically support, so you can afford to lose some in 1942 without replacing them. IIRC, you get around 100-ish or so, and I think more than 24 Tank Corps is tough to support logistically, at least until mid-43 or later. That's the equivalent of 75 Tank Bdes.

1b) With Rifle units, I think you get around 450 division equivalents. You probably need 8 mil men to round all those out completely, so you can get away with less. I personally wouldn't build any, unless you are close to 100% TOE on every Rifle unit on the map, and you have excess Manpower/Armaments building in the pool.

1c) How many Rifle Div equivalents do you have at the moment? (Count Corps as 3, and Brigades as 1/2)

2) Instead of creating new units, you need to be hoarding APs, so that when January '43 hits, you can start converting Rifle Div to Corps wholesale (it costs 20 APs in 1942, but only 10 in 43+, providing a large incentive to hold-off alot of Corps conversion until 1943). For my part, I want to have near the MAX in APs in Jan '43, and immediately create 40 Rifle Corps.

3) If you are forming any new mobile units, look at Motorized Brigades, and form them into MECH CORPS. Mech Corps unfortunately start at an experience level of 15 after formation, so they take many months to train-up. I would build a few early, giving them time to train, and build into something worthwhile. That is a better use of extra vehicles, IMO, than more Tank Bdes.

MECH CORPS are the #1 Red Army unit once they train, but you have to plan ahead to get them there. Once trained, they are the equivalent of a Panzer Division.

1) I think I need a few more?

1a) I currently have 14 tank corps and 30 tank brigades which then just hits the number of 24 corps

1b) I have spare armaments, but you have a good point about manpower

1c) I am at 385 Rifle division equivalents, + 10 mountain division = 395, or somewhat lower than your number

2) But that again seems to me to be a way to halter me from making attacks in winter. Not attacks at all, but in the way that my CV values will be lower, and my ability to push will be limited? But the point about AP is well taken.
Also, unless I am way off, TOE of 2 divisions + 1 brigade > TOE of a corps, while CV of a corps > CV of two divisions and a brigade. This too suggests that forming corps is a good thing?

3) Thank you, that is useful info. Will take that into account, yet it seems to me that right now my major concern should be having assault troops for the winter?

Again, thank you for the feedback, I really appreciate it [&o]
Terje

[M60A3TTS]

My thoughts on your Leningrad plan is that the chance of success of actually getting (to) the city is very low. You will find it exceedingly difficult in breaking through there as he'll have the ability to pile units up to plug the gaps in terrain that will favor the defender in virtually every case. And you won't extend his lines to any degree contrary to what you may suppose. Also don't forget that you don't get the same first winter bonuses this time. The only real benefit to winter now is the frozen rivers won't provide the same defensive bonuses as under normal conditions.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

My thoughts on your Leningrad plan is that the chance of success of actually getting (to) the city is very low. You will find it exceedingly difficult in breaking through there as he'll have the ability to pile units up to plug the gaps in terrain that will favor the defender in virtually every case. And you won't extend his lines to any degree contrary to what you may suppose. Also don't forget that you don't get the same first winter bonuses this time. The only real benefit to winter now is the frozen rivers won't provide the same defensive bonuses as under normal conditions.

I think that's all true, and I highly doubt you could reach Leningrad. It's a very defensible position for the Germans; I would be surprised if any player who gained it lost it before mid-1944.

Maybe a better idea is a push straight south toward Smolensk, out of that bulge (hard to see, but I think that's where that bulge is). That would also lengthen his line (which is good thinking, BTW), but allow you to advance through better terrain. It would also unhinge any defenses to the East of that.

Rifle Corps, BTW, don't get any more CV than the combination of their units. The TOE's expand, though, so they become more powerful than 2 div + a brigade. Also, you can make attachments to a Rifle Corps, like Sappers and AT guns; very useful, and gives it more punch.

Like I said, I think you have the right idea to lengthen his lines. Mostly, you want to do that, and kill Germans.

[terje439]

Turn 76

Overall
Another quiet turn. For a while I was tempted to launch a minor attack across the river south of Moscow, but decided against it simply because it would not achieve anything but shorten the Axis front by one hex.
The Axis launched 4 anti partisan attacks this turn, and our bombers killed off about 1.000 Axis troops. That was all the action this turn. There is however something that I do not understand, and that is despite no Axis attack on my line neither on the ground nor in the air, I still lose close to 200 guns.
Even though 89.000 are returned to the manpower pool and 92.000 are added from our manpower centres, our manpower pool holds a staggering 47 troops. This validates the view of Comrade Q-Ball, that I should not build alot more units for a while.
Losses this turn are reported at 21.000 Axis to our 63.000, so nothing changes here either.

Units
I decided not to build anything this turn, I really need to find out where to focus my attack, and that soon, as I will need to relocate some forces to the front that will attack. Still I feel weak across the board. Not good.
We gained a net increase of 114.000 troops this turn.
Almost forgot to mention, we got the usual airfield this turn too...

Partisans
This was a good "partisan turn", with 6 sabotage actions performed and 17 units on the map before the Axis forced 4 of them to retreat. That still leaves 13 on the map at the end of our turn.
Somewhat low ammount of supply drops though, with no more than 7 being made this turn.

Worries
More a concern I guess, but I feel too weak to actually be able to achieve anything during winter. Those unmodified Axis defensive CV are HIGH!!

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

My thoughts on your Leningrad plan is that the chance of success of actually getting (to) the city is very low. You will find it exceedingly difficult in breaking through there as he'll have the ability to pile units up to plug the gaps in terrain that will favor the defender in virtually every case. And you won't extend his lines to any degree contrary to what you may suppose. Also don't forget that you don't get the same first winter bonuses this time. The only real benefit to winter now is the frozen rivers won't provide the same defensive bonuses as under normal conditions.

Yup, did not think about terrain. As to lengthening the Axis line, that would have happened, but you are right, maybe not by alot.
So I should not expect to see the Axis defensive CV to drop? If so I am (and quoting Leonard from Big Bang Theory here)
"attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis"...
Going to be interesting to see how this winter turns out.

Again, thank you for the feedback!!

Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
Rifle Corps, BTW, don't get any more CV than the combination of their units. The TOE's expand, though, so they become more powerful than 2 div + a brigade. Also, you can make attachments to a Rifle Corps, like Sappers and AT guns; very useful, and gives it more punch.

Now you go tme confused [:D]
When I have formed a corps, let us say by two 1CV divisions and a 1CV brigade, the corps CV usually ends up around 2 before it seem to max out around 7 or 8 which I guess is what I can get if I filled out those divisions and the brigade, HOWEVER the newly formed corps will also be listed with something like 150% on all points in terms of TOE, so I thought that ment they got the same or better CV for a lower TOE?

(hope I managed to make myself clear here, as I am too tired right now to think in english, and instead translate as I write [:)])


Terje

[Joel Billings]

Did Oloren use the technique of using more than one FBD to repair the same rail line in this game (this was a bug and is no longer possible, but just curious if it was used here)?

[terje439]

Turn 77

Overall
Blizzard with level 7 ground freezing, and those Axis troops still look comfy [:(]
As usual I only fly with my airforce, and the Axis are happy hunting partisans, leaving losses once more at 22.000 to 64.000.
I am now gathering my Ad-hoc assault force, it will consist of a few rifle divisions, all my Guards Rifle Corps. 2 Rifle Corps and 2 tank Corps as well as eventually 4 artillery pieces. Not much to launch an offensive with, but all that can be spared if I am not to leave myself overly vulnerable everywhere else.
154.000 men and women were returned to the manpower pool this turn, and 92.000 new people arrive to do our bidding. Our current manpower pool is now at a staggering 43 [:)].

Units
Beside the usual airfield, we actually recieved something useful from Stalin this turn, a brand new Shock Army! I am now contemplating placing all my attacking units in this army, which will drain my AP, but might still be a good idea.
I also decided to build some artillery units this turn, 1 light gun brigade, 1 gun brigade and 1 artillery division (want to see its TOE) which will give arty support during the initial battles when we launch an attack.
A net gain in troops of 114.000 is also quite nice.

Partisans
Despite only 6 supply drops this turn, our guys were very busy, conducting 11 sabotage actions this turn. After the Axis force 5 of our partisans to retreat this turn, we still have 14 units on the map.

Worries
My Ad-Hoc battlegroup available for attack is looking very small...
And more worrying, I've lost sight of the Axis panzer divisions (with a few exceptions).

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Did Oloren use the technique of using more than one FBD to repair the same rail line in this game (this was a bug and is no longer possible, but just curious if it was used here)?

No idea, will ask in the next mail

Terje

[gingerbread]

I would recommend at least 2, preferably 3 Sapper regiments per fort level of the hex you intend to attack. Also bring lots of artillery.

[Baelfiin]

Dont waste ap's putting guards into a shock army, they wont get any benefit from it. Nor will tanks.

[Mike13z50]

Not Cavalry or Mountain troops either; just infantry and artillery get the bonus for being in Shock Army.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

I would recommend at least 2, preferably 3 Sapper regiments per fort level of the hex you intend to attack. Also bring lots of artillery.

When you say BRING artillery, do you mean arty brigades attached directly to the corps attacking, or independent arty units placed one hex to the rear firing in support of the assault?

Terje

[terje439]

Turn 78

Overall
My attack force is slooowly gathering, while the weather is as bad as it will ever get (blizzard, lvl 10 frost), I need a few more turns to be ready, so for now I only use my airforce.
Losses are once more within the "normal" range, with 22.000 Axis troops to our 62.000.
158.000 labourers are returned to the manpower pool this turn, while 92.000 fresh pair of hands are rectuited in our manpower centres. The manpower pool however is at an all time low with 37.

Units
Once more I resisted the urge to build more units, yet I have a strong feeling I will need more at the end of the winter, as I will need to place three units on the line along the rivers if I am to hold the rivers come spring. That does not leave me alot of units to the rear, and none as a mobile reserve. It seems I am currently suffering worse from the long front than the Axis.
So, the only new unit this turn is....yes. An airfield...
Our existing forces record a net increase of 186.000 troops this turn. We are once more close to the 7.000.000 mark.

Partisans
The Axis launched 6 attacks on our partisans this turn, scoring 5 retreats and 1 surrender [:@]
Oh well, we are still left with 18 partisan units on the map after the Axis have finished. 8 sabotage missions are conducted this turn, while the airforce decide to only perform 4 supply drops.

Worries
I am not at all confident about attacking I must say. But the forces are gathering, and we will make an attempt, now all I need to decide is what units to attack. I also estimate that I will do no more than pushing them back one hex, which last winter showed to do little to their CV, well atleast if they are knocked back they cannot use their forts anymore. ETA on the assault is Christmas Eve (2 turns).

[Q-Ball]

Terje;

Great AAR BTW, which is why I keep commenting.

One way to crack almost any German line: Launch a couple suicide attacks on a unit, THEN your main one. The suicide attacks fatigue the unit, and make it very vulnerable to a determined attack.

This will cause huge losses on that initial line, but I would bet the Collective Farm that there are not lvl 3 trenches behind it.

So, if you push 2 units with a hex in between them, and push units in there gettting a ZOC lock, he'll have to fall back. And probably fall back into less fortified hexes.

Hope that helps.

PS: On Corps, not sure on the TOE's, it's been awhile, but IIRC, the initial TOE for Rifle Corps is very low, but increases greatly in October '42. I would not create Corps before then. I like Tank Attachments, but Flavius also likes AT guns, I would look at that.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Terje;

Great AAR BTW, which is why I keep commenting.

One way to crack almost any German line: Launch a couple suicide attacks on a unit, THEN your main one. The suicide attacks fatigue the unit, and make it very vulnerable to a determined attack.

This will cause huge losses on that initial line, but I would bet the Collective Farm that there are not lvl 3 trenches behind it.

So, if you push 2 units with a hex in between them, and push units in there gettting a ZOC lock, he'll have to fall back. And probably fall back into less fortified hexes.

Hope that helps.

PS: On Corps, not sure on the TOE's, it's been awhile, but IIRC, the initial TOE for Rifle Corps is very low, but increases greatly in October '42. I would not create Corps before then. I like Tank Attachments, but Flavius also likes AT guns, I would look at that.

Thank you, I appreciate the kind words. So the key to play the USSR is to do as the USSR actually did? [:D]
Yes, the plan for when I attack will be
1. Aerial attacks
2. Weak single unit attacks
3. Main attack with arty support
My main concern is the ability (or lack there of) to attack two hexes with enough force to actually succeed. But will see what can be done. I am also contemplating attacking in the south next turn in the vain hope he will direct some of his reserves down there (the reason is that this is where his line is weakest, but an attack here would also shorten the line which is why I will not launch the main attack there).

My attachments will be 1 sapper regiment, 1 heavy tank regiment, 1 tank regiment. I would love to replace the normal tank regiment with 1 more sapper, but I do not have the spare units in pool to actually build more sappers.

Anyway will be fun to see me botch up another part of the year 1943 [:D]

Once more, all feedback, be it praise or telling me how foolish I am behaving is greatly appreciated from one and all that post here [&o]


Terje

[M60A3TTS]

Remember that since it is now December 42, you can build artillery or rocket divisions that can engage the bad guys at a range of two hexes. That can help bulk up your offensive.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Remember that since it is now December 42, you can build artillery or rocket divisions that can engage the bad guys at a range of two hexes. That can help bulk up your offensive.

Yup, have 5 of them now on the map, although on their own they do not seem to do very well, I hope they will be worth it when I use them to support my main attacks.


Terje

[TulliusDetritus]

On my other game I hadn't created artillery units in 1942. This time it's different. Almost the end of blizzard and I have already created half a dozen: light guns and howitzers. I plan to have a dozen minimum (Stavka strategic reserves).

First of all because they are more toys, and I want all of them (just like a kid)! [:D]

Now more seriously, these artillery units CAN be very useful now with the new rules. Why? Because the 1:1 = 2:1 is gone [;)] This means you will need to look under every rock to find offensive CVs (if you want to make successful attacks that is). And that's exactly what these artillery units will give you. So as long as you can afford them (armaments) they make much more sense now.

[gingerbread]

ORIGINAL: terje439

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

I would recommend at least 2, preferably 3 Sapper regiments per fort level of the hex you intend to attack. Also bring lots of artillery.

When you say BRING artillery, do you mean arty brigades attached directly to the corps attacking, or independent arty units placed one hex to the rear firing in support of the assault?

Terje

Actually, I meant it more in a cheery send of kind of way - the Soviets usually have lots of artillery. I don't think you can attach art to corps, so they must come either from HQ or on map. But do spend some love on ensuring that the HQ's have a productive load out without going overboard on AP spent.