War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
- Canoerebel
- Posts: 21099
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:21 pm
- Location: Northwestern Georgia, USA
- Contact:
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
12/24/41
A pretty good day for the Allies in ways that aren't sexy, but which are important.
NoPac: The KB and several combat TFs are close to Anchorage and SigInt reports a ground unit aboard a Maru making for Whittier. This is turning into a full-fledged operation to take Alaska. I'm fine with that. I also realize it could be the first step in some kind of unprecedented action agains the West Coast. But I've been alert to that since day one and I have been and will continue to position my troops and aircraft with that in mind. So, with certain caveats in mind, I am still very thankful to know exactly where the KB is positioned and to have her committed to a theater that I think isn't optimal for Japan. Queen Elizabeth and 27th Div. should each reach LA tomorrow. I'll divide the division so that I can make a partial purchase and get that part on the way to Melbourne.
CenPac: Saratoga refuels and continues to steam south, where she'll handle that theater. When Yortown arrives, she'll likely stay around Christmas Island. Sara and York will be the "cavalry" in the event of a major enemy move on Hawaii or West Coast. They wouldn't be able to take on the KB, of course, but they could raid LOCs.
SWPac: CL Adelaide is torpedoed at Rabaul. The remaining Allied cruisers will try to intercept enemy shipping west of Rabaul tomorrow.
DEI: Mini KBs are position on either side of the Moluccas. I don't think Steve knows the exact location of my carriers, but he may have suspcions. He has some BBs and a juicy LSD exposed at a beachhead just east of Batavia. I considered transferring my SBDs to Java to attack, but decided against it. SBDs tend not to harm battleships very much and I need my first strike to be very effective since sorties are limited and replenishment will be problematic and time consuming. The Allies have 150 AV at Koepang and most of a Dutch unit ashore at Cocos Island.
Malaya: The Japanese beat back the Allied blocking force west of Mersing. I got lucky in that my units retired south towards Singapore. The overall Allied withdrawal down the peninsula is therefore in good shape.
Burma: The Allies prevailed at Meiktila. This came as a pleasant surprise. The Burma Road is re-opened and the Allies have some time to work with here.
Philippines: The Allies go lucky on Luzon too. I had just enough at Manila to beat back the shock attack yesterday; Steve stood down his troops today; and all my infantry will leave the hex and reach Clark Field tomorrow. So the Allied defense of Clark and Bataan will be at full strength. Steve has committed a pretty large army to Luzon. I'd rather have them there than rampaging through Sumatra or Java at this early date.
China: I'm still working to get my MLRs established. Steve is trying to make some breakthroughs. It's not a sure thing yet, but I don't believe he'll succeed.
A pretty good day for the Allies in ways that aren't sexy, but which are important.
NoPac: The KB and several combat TFs are close to Anchorage and SigInt reports a ground unit aboard a Maru making for Whittier. This is turning into a full-fledged operation to take Alaska. I'm fine with that. I also realize it could be the first step in some kind of unprecedented action agains the West Coast. But I've been alert to that since day one and I have been and will continue to position my troops and aircraft with that in mind. So, with certain caveats in mind, I am still very thankful to know exactly where the KB is positioned and to have her committed to a theater that I think isn't optimal for Japan. Queen Elizabeth and 27th Div. should each reach LA tomorrow. I'll divide the division so that I can make a partial purchase and get that part on the way to Melbourne.
CenPac: Saratoga refuels and continues to steam south, where she'll handle that theater. When Yortown arrives, she'll likely stay around Christmas Island. Sara and York will be the "cavalry" in the event of a major enemy move on Hawaii or West Coast. They wouldn't be able to take on the KB, of course, but they could raid LOCs.
SWPac: CL Adelaide is torpedoed at Rabaul. The remaining Allied cruisers will try to intercept enemy shipping west of Rabaul tomorrow.
DEI: Mini KBs are position on either side of the Moluccas. I don't think Steve knows the exact location of my carriers, but he may have suspcions. He has some BBs and a juicy LSD exposed at a beachhead just east of Batavia. I considered transferring my SBDs to Java to attack, but decided against it. SBDs tend not to harm battleships very much and I need my first strike to be very effective since sorties are limited and replenishment will be problematic and time consuming. The Allies have 150 AV at Koepang and most of a Dutch unit ashore at Cocos Island.
Malaya: The Japanese beat back the Allied blocking force west of Mersing. I got lucky in that my units retired south towards Singapore. The overall Allied withdrawal down the peninsula is therefore in good shape.
Burma: The Allies prevailed at Meiktila. This came as a pleasant surprise. The Burma Road is re-opened and the Allies have some time to work with here.
Philippines: The Allies go lucky on Luzon too. I had just enough at Manila to beat back the shock attack yesterday; Steve stood down his troops today; and all my infantry will leave the hex and reach Clark Field tomorrow. So the Allied defense of Clark and Bataan will be at full strength. Steve has committed a pretty large army to Luzon. I'd rather have them there than rampaging through Sumatra or Java at this early date.
China: I'm still working to get my MLRs established. Steve is trying to make some breakthroughs. It's not a sure thing yet, but I don't believe he'll succeed.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
- Canoerebel
- Posts: 21099
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:21 pm
- Location: Northwestern Georgia, USA
- Contact:
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft
I don't know what PH is thinking, but one thing I do know is that as Japan you absolutely do not need your CVs to take the DEI. A single land-based torpedo-equipped air flotilla can put paid to any Allied CV effort in the area.
Most players are far too obsessed with the SRA in general. The way the game works, Japan almost doesn't even need the place. It's not very realistic but there you go.
This is a general statement that is sometimes true but often untrue. So newbs beware.
The Allies need to fight to slow Japan and keep the Japanese player reasonably cautious and honest. The Allies generally can't afford to go head-to-head with Japan early on, so it is incumbent upon the Allied player to accurately assess where Japan's assets are and to then identify places where the Allies can fight effectively.
With Japan very heavy in the Aluetians, the Aliles are in a position to contest SoPac, SWPac and the eastern DEI. But if the KB were in the DEI, I'd be doing my thing elsewhere. Hit 'em where they aint.
Besides its obvious strategic importance, the DEI is a good place for the Allies to gather info, fight, and try to come up with ambushes. With the KB far away, there's no place I'd rather be engaged.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Japan can't win by taking Alaska, but they can lose by not securing the DEI in a timely manner......going to be interesting if that's what he is thinking. Perhaps he's trying to make a good show to make you commit resources up north.....but again, it isn't all that important to the overall Allied war effort.
Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Yeah, hard to imagine how taking some/all of Alaska does much. But certainly it will make for great AAR theater. So for that reason alone I'm hoping he really is going to invade here. (Why else "raid" this area? Hardly likely to be any significant shipping that can flee with the kinds of heads up you have gotten).
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
I think he gambled that the allied carriers would head north after the PH attack and he planned to trap them in the Bering Sea while executing landings or raids in Alaska to provoke a reaction. I doubt he will plan to stay on mainland Alaska. As you said, nothing much there to gain and a lot of effort to keep the bases supplied, let alone defended.
Japan never has enough ships to support a huge extension of the perimeter. After 1943, the Allies do have enough to go the distance.
Japan never has enough ships to support a huge extension of the perimeter. After 1943, the Allies do have enough to go the distance.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
- Canoerebel
- Posts: 21099
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:21 pm
- Location: Northwestern Georgia, USA
- Contact:
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
From the first day, I did have a fair amount of assets moving towards Alaska when the warning bells went off. These included a transport TF carrying a big CD unit, two destroyer TFs, the Saratoga TF, and a variety of supply, replenishment and support TFs. To be honest, Steve might have bagged a great deal more if he had been careful in orchestrating his move instead of immediately revealing so the scope of his interest.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
- Canoerebel
- Posts: 21099
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:21 pm
- Location: Northwestern Georgia, USA
- Contact:
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
12/25/42
NoPac: The invasion of Whittier is underway. The main KB is nearby, while at least two carriers are over near Cold Bay.
CenPac: Louisville has been operating on it's own since the war started, making several intercepts of IJ invasion TFs. Unfortunately, the commander refuses to engage, though his ship does keep driving the enemy away from various targets - today it was Tabituea. Two stouter USN combat TFs are almost on the scene to lend a hand. Steve has at least three subs off San Diego, but none off LA or SF. This suggests that he has info that I like using SD as my main port of debarkation. If he also heavily blockades Cochin, India, then I'll know he's using info about my tendencies.
SWPac: Canbera and friends sank three PB and a small DD west of Rabaul. The TF is low on ammo and will have to retire a long way, leaving this theater undefended until reinforcements can arrive.
Eastern DEI: I'm pretty sure that Steve wonders if Ent and York are in theater, but isn't positive. He's mopping up bases in his rear (Ternate for instance), but he's afraid to come forward. I'm glad he hasn't forced me to reveal Ent and York, because I think uncertainty keeps him honest up around Rabaul too.
Luzon: Manila falls today, but the 220 AV had already evacuated to Clark Field.
Hong Kong: Capitulates today.
China: Steve is probing forward with a couple of isolated infantry divisions. The Chinese army is about to come together at Nanning, so this may present some "attack in detail" opportunities. I random thought occurred today: Is it a viable and effective option for Japan to attack China from the south, coming up from Burma? I assume that it is, meaning that China has to defend the mountain roads to some extent. This requires further thought. Perhaps I don't want to move Chinese divisions into Burma and thence into India? Or do I?
NoPac: The invasion of Whittier is underway. The main KB is nearby, while at least two carriers are over near Cold Bay.
CenPac: Louisville has been operating on it's own since the war started, making several intercepts of IJ invasion TFs. Unfortunately, the commander refuses to engage, though his ship does keep driving the enemy away from various targets - today it was Tabituea. Two stouter USN combat TFs are almost on the scene to lend a hand. Steve has at least three subs off San Diego, but none off LA or SF. This suggests that he has info that I like using SD as my main port of debarkation. If he also heavily blockades Cochin, India, then I'll know he's using info about my tendencies.
SWPac: Canbera and friends sank three PB and a small DD west of Rabaul. The TF is low on ammo and will have to retire a long way, leaving this theater undefended until reinforcements can arrive.
Eastern DEI: I'm pretty sure that Steve wonders if Ent and York are in theater, but isn't positive. He's mopping up bases in his rear (Ternate for instance), but he's afraid to come forward. I'm glad he hasn't forced me to reveal Ent and York, because I think uncertainty keeps him honest up around Rabaul too.
Luzon: Manila falls today, but the 220 AV had already evacuated to Clark Field.
Hong Kong: Capitulates today.
China: Steve is probing forward with a couple of isolated infantry divisions. The Chinese army is about to come together at Nanning, so this may present some "attack in detail" opportunities. I random thought occurred today: Is it a viable and effective option for Japan to attack China from the south, coming up from Burma? I assume that it is, meaning that China has to defend the mountain roads to some extent. This requires further thought. Perhaps I don't want to move Chinese divisions into Burma and thence into India? Or do I?
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Other than the coastal road from Hanoi, isn't the Burma road the ONLY continuous road through the mountains?
It is possible to come that way, but he would have difficulty getting enough supply from Rangoon fed up to the road to fight a campaign along its length.
If you fortify the base at the East end of the road [forget the name - starts with K and has some industry - Kunming??] it would be darn difficult to dislodge you.
It is possible to come that way, but he would have difficulty getting enough supply from Rangoon fed up to the road to fight a campaign along its length.
If you fortify the base at the East end of the road [forget the name - starts with K and has some industry - Kunming??] it would be darn difficult to dislodge you.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
- Canoerebel
- Posts: 21099
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:21 pm
- Location: Northwestern Georgia, USA
- Contact:
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Yeah, I had better keep that base (Kunming) well garrisoned to prevent massed bomber attack followed by para assault. It's also worth having a decent garrison of 150 AV or so in that last base in China on the Burma Road (begins with a P).
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Just wondering if the occupation of continental Alaska does trigger any special reinforcements for the Allies?
- Historiker
- Posts: 4742
- Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:11 pm
- Location: Deutschland
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
no, none
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!
There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
No, the only areas that trigger additional reinforcements to be placed for the Allies are:
»» Northern India
»» New Zealand
»» Southern Australia
»» West Coast of North America south of Vancouver.
Guys, it's funny reading the two AAR of you [:D]
»» Northern India
»» New Zealand
»» Southern Australia
»» West Coast of North America south of Vancouver.
Guys, it's funny reading the two AAR of you [:D]
- castor troy
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am
- Location: Austria
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Yeah, I had better keep that base (Kunming) well garrisoned to prevent massed bomber attack followed by para assault. It's also worth having a decent garrison of 150 AV or so in that last base in China on the Burma Road (begins with a P).
Paoshan
- Canoerebel
- Posts: 21099
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:21 pm
- Location: Northwestern Georgia, USA
- Contact:
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
12/26/42
NoPac: Japan takes Whittier and Cold Bay and lands at Dutch Harbor.
West Coast: I evaluate it highly unlikely that Steve will invade the USA, but on the off-chance I continue to shift units around to protect resource centers against para attacks. I think it much more likely that Steve would invade Canada and use the air bases for a strategic bombing campaign for strategic points. The Allies have several hundred fighters on the continent and they'll remain there against such a possibility. I divided 27th Div., bought out regiment, loaded Queen Elizabeth, and she'll set sail tonight for the high-speed run to Melbourne. She should have time for at least two round trips.
CenPac and SoPac: The Allies sortie several additional combat TFs and replenishment TFs, hoping to raid deep behind enemy lines. Saratoga continues making south. Tarawa falls.
SWPac: IJA 144th Regiment landing at Rabaul.
Eastern DEI: Ent and York slide a bit to the SW of Timor. Cocos Island garrison is complete.
China: Looking for a chance to strike some lonely IJA divisions.
NoPac: Japan takes Whittier and Cold Bay and lands at Dutch Harbor.
West Coast: I evaluate it highly unlikely that Steve will invade the USA, but on the off-chance I continue to shift units around to protect resource centers against para attacks. I think it much more likely that Steve would invade Canada and use the air bases for a strategic bombing campaign for strategic points. The Allies have several hundred fighters on the continent and they'll remain there against such a possibility. I divided 27th Div., bought out regiment, loaded Queen Elizabeth, and she'll set sail tonight for the high-speed run to Melbourne. She should have time for at least two round trips.
CenPac and SoPac: The Allies sortie several additional combat TFs and replenishment TFs, hoping to raid deep behind enemy lines. Saratoga continues making south. Tarawa falls.
SWPac: IJA 144th Regiment landing at Rabaul.
Eastern DEI: Ent and York slide a bit to the SW of Timor. Cocos Island garrison is complete.
China: Looking for a chance to strike some lonely IJA divisions.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
OK then - CR did get it right!ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Yeah, I had better keep that base (Kunming) well garrisoned to prevent massed bomber attack followed by para assault. It's also worth having a decent garrison of 150 AV or so in that last base in China on the Burma Road (begins with a P).
Paoshan
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
12/26/42
NoPac: Japan takes Whittier and Cold Bay and lands at Dutch Harbor.
If he goes farther toward AK or Canada how do you anticipate matching this threat and over what timeline would you think of challenging these and other Northern conquests by Japan?
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
I would humbly like to request screen shots of Alaska as his invasion progresses. It's just the kind of picture I've never seen in any AAR!
- Canoerebel
- Posts: 21099
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:21 pm
- Location: Northwestern Georgia, USA
- Contact:
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
I'll post some later today after I get the next turn. I think Steve will have everything signficiant up the chain except Kodiak and Anchorage. Those are probably high-priority targets for him.
The defense of the West Coast of Canada and the USA will be complicated. There is no way the Allies can take on the concentrated power of the KB, so I'm not planning direct opposition. Instead, the Allies will try to probe deeply into CenPac using combat ships, replenishment TFs, and perhaps even lone carriers (if I continue to get good info of the exact whereabouts of enemy carriers). The Allies would also increase efforts to hold Timor.
I do not think Japan will invade the continental United States. I do think Steve might try to take Canadian airfields and then engage in a strategic bombing campaign. From that standpoint, the Allies will have to maintain a large airforce in the USA - heavy bombers to hit enemy airfields and fighters to protect American strategic targets.
This is just one part of the big picture. Steve's moves could also be a diversion while he organizes a major move on Australia or India, so I'm still working to attend to both of those targets, which are far more important than Alaska.
The defense of the West Coast of Canada and the USA will be complicated. There is no way the Allies can take on the concentrated power of the KB, so I'm not planning direct opposition. Instead, the Allies will try to probe deeply into CenPac using combat ships, replenishment TFs, and perhaps even lone carriers (if I continue to get good info of the exact whereabouts of enemy carriers). The Allies would also increase efforts to hold Timor.
I do not think Japan will invade the continental United States. I do think Steve might try to take Canadian airfields and then engage in a strategic bombing campaign. From that standpoint, the Allies will have to maintain a large airforce in the USA - heavy bombers to hit enemy airfields and fighters to protect American strategic targets.
This is just one part of the big picture. Steve's moves could also be a diversion while he organizes a major move on Australia or India, so I'm still working to attend to both of those targets, which are far more important than Alaska.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
- Historiker
- Posts: 4742
- Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:11 pm
- Location: Deutschland
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
How much strategic bombing can he do, after all? You have more than enough permanently restricted fighter units at the West Coast to deal with every bombing campaing, no?
Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!
There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
I concur. He might do it for a while but it is a long supply line and he will just lose too many bombers in the end. Allied factories will repair super fast anyways. He might steal a few VP but I just think it will cost him too much in the end. I think his real goal is just to build up a strong string of bases as he knows CR has a history of taking the northern route.
I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.
Sigismund of Luxemburg
Sigismund of Luxemburg