The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

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rhondabrwn
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by rhondabrwn »

ORIGINAL: Borg917
ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Finally, an idea regarding sales of back catalogue from Tim Stone a reporter at RPS has a certain resonance, as coincidentally we have been looking at doing something along the lines he suggests. Firstly we have to hear back from our developer partners, as we don’t cut their prices without consultation and they may not be interested. So how about this for an idea, as Tim seems keen to help us. We host a promotion, sale of the week and run it in conjunction with RPS.

If the developers agree, and you can offer these games in a £50 package, take my money please! [:)]

Spartan (2005)
Tin Soldiers: Alexander The Great (2004)
Tin Soldiers Julius Caesar (2005)

Flashpoint Germany (2005)
Norm Koger’s The Operational Art of War III (1998-2006) (already have this, but what the heck :)
Close Combat Modern Tactics (2007)

Battles In Normandy (2004)
Carriers At War (2007)
John Tiller’s Campaign Series (1999-2007)

Gary Grigsby’s War Between The States (2008)
Birth of America 2 (2008)
John Tiller’s Battleground Civil War (1995-2007)

Napoleon In Italy (2007)
John Tiller’s Battleground Napoleonic Wars (1996-2007)
Napoleon’s Campaigns (2007)

A deal on the latest version of Harpoon wouldn't hurt either [:D]

Pretty good choice for package deals! I think it's a great idea (too bad I own nearly all of these already). If you can wait till I drop dead in 20 years or so, I'm sure my kids would give you a great price on them [:D]
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Ashcloud
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by Ashcloud »

ORIGINAL: wodin

I think borg means fifty for the lot as Tim mentioned not fifty for a pack of three.

Id def buy a few of those packs at anywhere between £10 and £20 purely out of curiosity and know if I don't like them it's not much wasted.


That would be greedy - but I would take it :)
Aurelian
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by Aurelian »

ORIGINAL: grogmaster

I'd be lucky if I can afford one per year at full price.

Which is your problem. And yours alone.
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GreyJoy
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by GreyJoy »

Altough i do not attend a lot to the general discussion sub-forum and even if i admit that i didn't follow the whole discussion (but read the first pages), it seems to me pretty strange (but relevant) the fact that WITP:AE consumers (which is probably the most expensive game in Matrix's catalogue) are the ones who complain the less about Matrix pricing policies.
This, to my eyes, means that price is never (or vary seldom) a problem when the product shines like gold.
Tell a AE consumer to give 100 more dollars to michealm to keep on supporting the game and i bet 90% of them will do it (last year we even collected money to make him a present -a new laptop- for christmas).
 
MatrixGames is a company that knows its job. Its history talks more than 1,000,000 words.
 
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histgamer
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by histgamer »

Guys this is an amazing article that a new game which just came out posted on their blog. It's not strictly a wargame, it's not really, it's a game about building your own gaming company. Anyway they posted first day sales figures for a game which I purchased and think is deep enough to pay 3x what they charge (They only charged $7.99 on release day for their first day on Windows 7 and Mac)and they have some interesting little figures when it comes to piracy. I'm astounded by how high the numbers are, but it definitely kills the notion (if the figures are valid) that lowering prices will somehow kill piracy and that's the reason I included this here.

GameDevTycoon

P.S. My guess is the price is where it's at because they are trying to compete with GameDevStory which is a far more arcady title but is on iOS and Android and fills the same type of game.
Borg917
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by Borg917 »

Yep, £50 for all 15 games. Don't think there was anything that came out later than 2007 in that list Tim Stone provided, so if Matrix/Slitherine and the developers are okay with it, that would be great. :)
ORIGINAL: Ashcloud

That would be greedy - but I would take it :)

Nah, greedy (and possibly delusional) would be £5 for War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition [:D]
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by Ashcloud »

ORIGINAL: Borg917

Yep, £50 for all 15 games. Don't think there was anything that came out later than 2007 in that list Tim Stone provided, so if Matrix/Slitherine and the developers are okay with it, that would be great. :)
ORIGINAL: Ashcloud

That would be greedy - but I would take it :)

Nah, greedy (and possibly delusional) would be £5 for War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition [:D]

It would be GREAT!
VicKevlar
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by VicKevlar »

Am I having flashbacks from 6 years ago for IGotMilk or Oleg (grogmaster)???

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PipFromSlitherine
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by PipFromSlitherine »

ORIGINAL: Ashcloud


Are you questioning the fact that management vacationed on an exotic island last year? Please don't make me call you out on this one.

What is wrong with going on an exotic island vacation? I would go if I could.
So would we, it sounds like fun. It's a genuine shame it absolutely didn't happen.

Cheers

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catwhoorg
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by catwhoorg »

Mentioned this in another thread, the only full price (or nearly so) games I have bought in the last few years have all been here, though having thrown into kickstarter for a couple of games (for 2014 expected release), than run basically has ended.

Did pick up some bargin bin games in that time frame, but they really don't get much playtime.
Various free games on FB probably get more than they do.
:)

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Dragoon.
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by Dragoon. »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Altough i do not attend a lot to the general discussion sub-forum and even if i admit that i didn't follow the whole discussion (but read the first pages), it seems to me pretty strange (but relevant) the fact that WITP:AE consumers (which is probably the most expensive game in Matrix's catalogue) are the ones who complain the less about Matrix pricing policies.
This, to my eyes, means that price is never (or vary seldom) a problem when the product shines like gold.
Tell a AE consumer to give 100 more dollars to michealm to keep on supporting the game and i bet 90% of them will do it (last year we even collected money to make him a present -a new laptop- for christmas).

MatrixGames is a company that knows its job. Its history talks more than 1,000,000 words.

Keep on doing as you are and we'll all be fine!

I think the price of WITP:AE is fair. The game is very complex. I can only imagine the work that went into historic research, designing the game mechanics and programming the algorithms. Not to mention the time to balance, test everything and write the AI on top of that. Also the "high" price is necessary to make sure people know what they are getting into. If you're not into this you will hate this game to the bone and probably every cent spent.
This game is the exact opposite of triple A title. AAA titles while amazingly enjoyable at the beginning tend to become diminishing in fun with every hour you spent playing. In WITP:AE first dozen hours are plain and simple work. You have to study, memorize and iterate the manual before you can have any meaningful game. The "high" price will have an motivation effect on you while you suffer through the learning period. Just because you want get your money out of this. However I played Pacfic War before, so I knew what was coming to me.

I remember when I started with Pacific War. The game had no sound, graphics of an ancient Atari2600 with 320x200 resolution, but I wanted to try something new so I began reading the manual. I was 1/3 through the manual when I thought they (Matrix/Gary Grigsby) can't be serious. Who is going to read all this crap and play this trash?
I was ready to delete the game but for reason I don't remember I kept browsing through the manual.
At end of the manual was a reprint of a history article about the Pacific War.
As I read through article I became fascinated about this conflict. I spend the rest of the day researching the internet for more information about the war, the nations, people, culture, ships and planes involved. I read about the china-japan war, Japan's industry, US industry, both military doctrines, the island hoping campaign, the political parties, the atrocities and heroic acts that were committed.
At the end it was clear to me I had to play this game because on an abstract way I wanted to experience this. With that in mind reading the manual and learning the game itself became fun as I were already playing it. Because the actual game was not happening on my display but in my head.
Today I have a dozen of books about this conflict and the background. I learned a lot and all because of this stupid game and for that I'm grateful. :)
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by rodney727 »

I agree as WITE and witp take a while in between turns. While games like panzer corps and commander series would be playable very much on the iPad . Other games that would work well I think are unity of command and time of fury.
ORIGINAL: flanyboy

I think it depends largely on the type of game. I would definitely play Panzer Corps on an iPad or Android, I would not play WiTP nor do I think WiTP would run on most tablets out today.

I think the only way I would play a game like WiTP on a tablet at this point is if the mobile version let you wirelessly sync with your computer version so you could play on your PC at home and also play on the go. That's really where I hope a lot of the Tablet/PC gaming goes next, once tablets are a bit more powerful.
ORIGINAL: rogo727

Here is my progression in college... Risk which led to A&A which then led to house rules of that game...soon after got my first computer bought steel panthers and panzer general. Eventually found matrix games. I think slitherine has opened up a whole new door with tablet gamming. While the "hard core" wargamers will only buy games that will and can only be played on computers. Some of course will do both but many will choose the tablet. To get younger future people to play wargames I think this is the best option.
ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

I continue to think that the proper target audiences for wargame promotions are to be found on college campuses. There you've got the right age-group for future wargamers and the right intellect pool. I can never forget that that is just how SPI got me hooked, so many decades ago: They placed their games in the college bookstore. That's probably not doable anymore, but, somehow, that audience needs to be targeted.
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rodney727
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by rodney727 »

I remember when they said they were making the iPad how the so called experts in the industry said it wouldn't sell. So yes I agree it's an option but not the answer. My first computer in 1994 only had 4mb of memory and it was huge! Five years from now maybe tablets will equal laptops who knows?
ORIGINAL: wodin

Tablets are an option but not the answer..apparently the bigger tablets are dead and it's all going to be 7 inch. My 19 inch screen is a huge issue for me in wargames let alone a 7 inch one. Yes you can plug it into a TV..but isn't that then defeating the whole purpose of an IPad in the first place?

IOS is a good way to get the lighter wargames out there leading them onto the games on a PC I suppose.

TabletPC hybrids might be the way forward..where the screen detaches to be a tablet..just a rather big one. One has already been made I believe.
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dutchman55555
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by dutchman55555 »

ORIGINAL: Borg917
ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Finally, an idea regarding sales of back catalogue from Tim Stone a reporter at RPS has a certain resonance, as coincidentally we have been looking at doing something along the lines he suggests. Firstly we have to hear back from our developer partners, as we don’t cut their prices without consultation and they may not be interested. So how about this for an idea, as Tim seems keen to help us. We host a promotion, sale of the week and run it in conjunction with RPS.

If the developers agree, and you can offer these games in a £50 package, take my money please! [:)]

Spartan (2005)
Tin Soldiers: Alexander The Great (2004)
Tin Soldiers Julius Caesar (2005)

Flashpoint Germany (2005)
Norm Koger’s The Operational Art of War III (1998-2006) (already have this, but what the heck :)
Close Combat Modern Tactics (2007)

Battles In Normandy (2004)
Carriers At War (2007)
John Tiller’s Campaign Series (1999-2007)

Gary Grigsby’s War Between The States (2008)
Birth of America 2 (2008)
John Tiller’s Battleground Civil War (1995-2007)

Napoleon In Italy (2007)
John Tiller’s Battleground Napoleonic Wars (1996-2007)
Napoleon’s Campaigns (2007)

A deal on the latest version of Harpoon wouldn't hurt either [:D]
And for perspective, Tim Stone suggests a price point of £10, not £50, for each of those bundles. It won't surprise if Matrix chooses £50, but I would expect the sales to peak at dozens with a price like that. You're looking at games that are basically 6-9 years old.

Now if you were suggesting all of those games for £50, that I could understand.

Edited to (add) reflect the fact that OP was indeed suggesting £10 for each bundle, or £50 to purchase all five bundles. And yeah, even though it would mean repurchasing 3 of the 15 (so basically 12 games for £50) I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I still stick by my precognition that Matrix's price point will be closer (far closer) to £50/£250 than £10/£50. For games 6-9 years old.
dutchman55555
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by dutchman55555 »

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
ORIGINAL: grogmaster

I'd be lucky if I can afford one per year at full price.

Which is your problem. And yours alone.
So if someone can afford full price but wants a lower price they are "greedy", and if they can only afford one a year that's "their problem"?

Ah, the lip smacking greatness of Triple Awesome Grape(tm).
dutchman55555
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by dutchman55555 »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Altough i do not attend a lot to the general discussion sub-forum and even if i admit that i didn't follow the whole discussion (but read the first pages), it seems to me pretty strange (but relevant) the fact that WITP:AE consumers (which is probably the most expensive game in Matrix's catalogue) are the ones who complain the less about Matrix pricing policies.
This, to my eyes, means that price is never (or vary seldom) a problem when the product shines like gold.
Tell a AE consumer to give 100 more dollars to michealm to keep on supporting the game and i bet 90% of them will do it (last year we even collected money to make him a present -a new laptop- for christmas).
Cool. Any word on when the tutorial promised on the very first page of the manual (Section 1.1, as a matter of fact) will be released? When will a working index be made available? Honestly if it wasn't for fan support WitP:AE would be pretty much unplayable by anyone who hadn't been in the Beta test group.
Aurelian
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by Aurelian »

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
ORIGINAL: grogmaster

I'd be lucky if I can afford one per year at full price.

Which is your problem. And yours alone.
So if someone can afford full price but wants a lower price they are "greedy", and if they can only afford one a year that's "their problem"?

Ah, the lip smacking greatness of Triple Awesome Grape(tm).

What are you sucking on your pacifier about this time.

Yeah, if you can't afford more than one game a year, that is your problem. Instead of coming onto a public message board and whine about something so inconsequential, try something else. Like a job. Or saving some money to put towards such a luxury.

Lots of people out there who would just laugh at you. Either because they have *real* problems. Or because, as I did, they worked hard, saved even harder, passed up on a lot of the hot things to have.

Now, for instance, I can buy any game I want. Every week. Been doing that for 30 years in fact. Couldn't always do it. But when I couldn't, There is one thing I never did.

Which was to come to a message board and blame everyone else.

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Erik Rutins
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555
Cool. Any word on when the tutorial promised on the very first page of the manual (Section 1.1, as a matter of fact) will be released? When will a working index be made available? Honestly if it wasn't for fan support WitP:AE would be pretty much unplayable by anyone who hadn't been in the Beta test group.

As was explained at release, the reference to the tutorial was an editing error. The 300+ page manual, largest we've still printed to date (until World in Flames is released), is there for you though. That said, a new manual is actually in the works for AE, and hopefully will be ready before the next reprint.

AE was a community project from start to finish, so I think it's fair to say that without some very talented and skilled members of the commmunity, AE would not even exist. While we at Matrix and 2by3 love WITP at that point 2by3 did not have time to revisit WITP on their own. I think the number of folks who are playing it speaks to the fact that it can be learned just fine. Figuring out how to play it is not that hard - playing it well is much more challenging and experience and discussion with other players is the best aid there. A new tutorial or larger manual would be of limited use, there's only so much that can really be explained without practice.

Regards,

- Erik

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


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dutchman55555
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by dutchman55555 »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
ORIGINAL: dutchman55555
Cool. Any word on when the tutorial promised on the very first page of the manual (Section 1.1, as a matter of fact) will be released? When will a working index be made available? Honestly if it wasn't for fan support WitP:AE would be pretty much unplayable by anyone who hadn't been in the Beta test group.

As was explained at release, the reference to the tutorial was an editing error. The 300+ page manual, largest we've still printed to date (until World in Flames is released), is there for you though. That said, a new manual is actually in the works for AE, and hopefully will be ready before the next reprint.

AE was a community project from start to finish, so I think it's fair to say that without some very talented and skilled members of the commmunity, AE would not even exist. While we at Matrix and 2by3 love WITP at that point 2by3 did not have time to revisit WITP on their own. I think the number of folks who are playing it speaks to the fact that it can be learned just fine. Figuring out how to play it is not that hard - playing it well is much more challenging and experience and discussion with other players is the best aid there. A new tutorial or larger manual would be of limited use, there's only so much that can really be explained without practice.

Regards,

- Erik

Yes Erik, the manual is wonderfully comprehensive at 320 pages. But it fails with a puny and less than comprehensive 6 page index, to the point where I put it down and wondered why I shelled out an extra $15 for a hard copy. But hey, that's just my impression, YMMV.
dutchman55555
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RE: The Good Health of the Wargaming Niche

Post by dutchman55555 »

Ever so pleased to see the Deal of the Week. Well done, Matrix. A shame I already have the Tiller collection, but that's luck of the draw. I'll give a long, hard thought about Forge of Freedom. A $22 (CAD) price is closer to Matrix's idea of a price point than mine for a six and a half year old game, but I'd certainly like to encourage further deals in the future.
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