[DWU] Balance Mod v0.9 (extended TechTree) [Cancelled in protest]

[Shogouki]

I too would be very grateful if you'd come back. [:)]

[feygan]

After reading the last few posts one thing became clear, there was lots of reference to a customer vs dev standpoint. I think you should be very careful with that viewpoint, most of the time you will find yourself in the wrong. A better definition is "customer vs publisher", the developer likely has little to no input on the pricing of a product, nor how it is packaged for release.

You can make the argument about the game code against the developer all you want, but if the publisher refuses to pay for any potential extra work incurred then where does that leave the developer? I agree with many of the points about the business practices here, but you cannot lay the blame for them at the feet of the developer. For all we know they could be locked into a contract that forbids them from speaking out about such issues, would you risk your entire income to do such?

There are some problems that Matrix have and they do indulge in crappy practices, but please make sure you are clear that Matrix are not a developer, they are simply the salesman at your door.

[Locarnus]

ORIGINAL: Varlun

Given this, I'd say that the problem here isn't with the developer or the company. I would in fact (respectfully) say that the problem is you. I don't say this with intentions to harm or attack. I say what I say because I hope that you'll come around. From what I've seen- and I will say in advance that this is most likely colored since I'm only really seeing your frustrated side- you seem to be (while intelligent) aggressive, demanding, and generally unkind.

Well, the "problem isnt the dev/company, its you" combined with the "aggressive, demanding, and generally unkind" (without the "while intelligent") could be a baseline quote from nearly every dispute between few powerful entities and many individually powerless entities thrown in the direction of the latter.

Whether it is/was chain retailers not reimbursing customers for faulty goods, where only the affected and few other fought for that right while being ignored/belittled by the majority, or on a greater scale the general employer/employee relationship.

The few who cared where nearly always belittled, attacked or ignored by the majority and the powerful entity. Until the majority woke up/got educated and/or making amends just became the less costly option for the "powerful entity".

History of individual rights in a nutshell for you...


@feygan:
You are absolutely right, I corrected those last 2 posts to lay the blame where it is, instead of falsely lumping together dev and publisher.

Thank you for that clarification!

[Icemania]

You know Locarnus, in my book it's your Mod, you can do as you wish. I have no expectations, and would only express gratitude if this Mod was ever finished.

I agree that the Matrix upgrade policy is completely unreasonable as has been discussed quite a bit on Steam. If you've purchased up to say Shadows, and missed the promotional period, it's just ridiculous to expect an established customer to pay full price for Universe. However, there is no evidence to suggest it's a scam. It may indeed just very difficult in the limited systems of a niche company. That said, they should fix the problem.

So in short, I partly agree, but would never use such a reason to justify stopping work on a Mod. Why? Well perhaps a story would help.

Many years ago I was working in Holland and the bus drivers had a strike. Now where I come from a strike would mean no buses were running and as passengers you would be screwed. But in Holland the buses still ran ... however the twist is that passengers did not have to pay their fare. Think about it for a moment, they avoided harming passengers who were not to blame for the strike. I thought this approach was brilliant.

So again it's your Mod but Matrix do not care at this point whether you do this Mod or not. The only people your decision effects is the community, and so you shouldn't be surprised at the commentary above.

[Falokis]

So again it's your Mod but Matrix do not care at this point whether you do this Mod or not. The only people your decision effects is the community, and so you shouldn't be surprised at the commentary above.

Exactly this.

I've been waiting for months for the megamod because I get tired of rebuilding my personal preferences every time there is a big change. Just do it. The players will thank you for it.

[Unforeseen]

I was just reading this thread and well... http://www.matrixgames.com/store/?k=Dis ... gin+Search
So if for some reason Universe was not available back when you were having this discussion, it is now.

[Bamilus]

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

I was just reading this thread and well... http://www.matrixgames.com/store/?k=Dis ... gin+Search
So if for some reason Universe was not available back when you were having this discussion, it is now.

Thanks for bumping this thread, otherwise I would've never seen it. Hilarious to see the OP freak out over font changes rofl

[Unforeseen]

Lol I know right. Sure it's his time and effort but he was vastly over-reacting. Then he got mad because we were bashing him for it, but even I would expect to be ridiculed a little bit for having a nervous break down over a font size. I don't think he realized how it looked from our point of view and how frustrating it was because we were all looking forward to his mod and then he suddenly quits it because of something petty and won't let us finish it for him. We STILL don't have a finished research mod. Reloadeds beta isn't even available for download and Starfalls author is missing now. I'm actually thinking about saying F it and playing the game with vanilla tech (yuck).

I was curious about his accusation of fraud and such so I looked up universe and it's been there. The entire time. It was even on sale during the holidays.

Locarnus has a point regarding retailers and really every major corporation atm, but his hostility to matrix is misplaced. There simply seems to be a misunderstanding of priorities here.

[Bamilus]

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

Lol I know right. Sure it's his time and effort but he was vastly over-reacting. Then he got mad because we were bashing him for it, but even I would expect to be ridiculed a little bit for having a nervous break down over a font size. I don't think he realized how it looked from our point of view and how frustrating it was because we were all looking forward to his mod and then he suddenly quits it because of something petty and won't let us finish it for him. We STILL don't have a finished research mod. Reloadeds beta isn't even available for download and Starfalls author is missing now. I'm actually thinking about saying F it and playing the game with vanilla tech (yuck).

I was curious about his accusation of fraud and such so I looked up universe and it's been there. The entire time. It was even on sale during the holidays.

Locarnus has a point regarding retailers and really every major corporation atm, but his hostility to matrix is misplaced. There simply seems to be a misunderstanding of priorities here.

Extremely well said. It's like he realized how dumb he was for freaking out over a font size change and then he comes back three months later and throws out some BS argument about how Matrix "dupes" people. I've bought over twenty games from Matrix, including all of their "premium" titles ($70+) and not once have I been burned.

If he wants to know what being burned is then he should go to the Paradox forums where their moderators can ban you for no reason and then you lose all access to beta patches and mods. Pretty BS (especially since they banned my one account for something I didn't do). I can understand that mods have the right to ban people but as a paying customer your access to post on the forums shouldn't be linked with your ability to access tech support and mods. After spending hundreds with them that pretty much sealed the deal. Haven't looked back since, especially since their games are becoming mainstream (HoI4 doesn't even have NATO counters, rofl). But I digress.

Back to DW....I've owned this game forever but recently just decided to get into it. That's when I stumbled upon this thread and had a good chuckle. But yea, it's a damn shame the other research mods are dead, too.

[Unforeseen]

I know how you feel. I was banned from Nexus Mods just because one single moderator misunderstood a post I made, he claimed I was being Racist and denied my appeal and IP Blocked me from the entire site. All I did was suggest that the Stormcloaks from Skyrim were similar to the American Confederacy in the Civil War which they are.

Glad to see another player digging into the massive heap of epicness that is Distant Worlds. I can only imagine what DW2 will look like, probably twice as many star systems, better graphics, more races etc. Will be incredible.

[Bamilus]

Locarnus is a perfect example of why the United States is screwed in 50 years. My generation and those coming up are the most entitled pricks I have ever seen. "If I can't have it, no one will!"

[Unforeseen]

Yeah that mindset is a complete contradiction of the principles in which this nation was founded. Everyone is supposed to be helping each other, not short sightedly focusing on advancing themselves and trying to be better than everyone else. This is exactly why the economy can't even be fixed. Capitalism was not designed with the mindset that those with money would hoard it because that defies the American Idea. The point of Capitalism is to let everyone have an equal chance at success, if that aspect is taken away then Capitalism is no longer working. The aspect HAS been taken away, Corporations have all the money, they are hoarding it and thus making it practically impossible for the majority to advance causing poverty even in the middle class. Then to make matters worse, the rich have so much money that they are able to pay off the government to protect them and disallow any attempt to rectify the situation.

Sadly, there is simply nothing that can be done about it. Because the mindset of the rich is essentially the mindset of everyone else. And even if it wasn't, doing something to change things would cost a great deal of money. Something we don't have.

Unless your a sports athlete. For some reason they get paid millions, sometimes over a hundred million dollars over the course a few years. No idea how that happened.

[Zap]

You still have a chance at success, if your so inclined. What you describe, as I see it, is called greed. Its not a failure of Capitalism but a failure of man. Christianity or even simple ethics teaches to not allow greed to be one motivation. People are not hearing the message for whatever reason. Human nature can be corrupted easily if no foundation (chritain ethics inspired) is laid when we're young.

[Unforeseen]

Assuming we are talking about someone just getting started that does not initially have enough money to make long term investments your success depends on two things. Availability, and Allowance. Availability refers to a position allowing more money to flow in. This occurs when someone dies, moves up higher up the chain, or loses that position. If this does not occur, there is no chance for success short of circumstances out of your power. Simply put, if a position is not available, it doesn't matter how hard you work. That isn't supposed to be the case, and this is partly an issue with the fact that the entire system was designed during a time period when their weren't as many people all vying for the same positions. There were plenty of opportunities, and the rich were not so greedy. The second thing, Allowance refers to the people who benefit from the companies bottom line. Such as CEO's. They make the decision to allow some of their potential income to be distributed to employees. If an employer wants to make a million dollars, and he makes 1 million, 100 thousand dollars and he has no other expenses and isn't inclined to skim from the top then he will allocate 100 thousand dollars to employee expenses. If this means some poor entry level employee has to be laid off, then that poor guy is SOL despite the fact that the employer had plenty of money to pay to keep that guy on. Yes the problem is greed, and greed is the reason why capitalism has failed and our economy is permanently crippled because ones success is no longer determined by hard work, and instead by other people.

EDIT: Religious morals are not a solution to the worlds problems. I believe that it caused them. It is a source of fear instilled by those who mean to force the masses into acting a certain way. Some of it is justified but the means does not justify the ends. Fear is not the answer. There is no God, of any religion to date. Even if there was, his/it's ethics are perhaps worse than anything any Human is capable of. The Christian God knows the future, created Humanity with the ability to make the mistakes he knows that they will make in advance and then punishes them for it with Eternal Damnation. That is pure evil. Religion has single handedly been the cause of hundreds of wars, the loss of millions of lives, religious terrorism, and hundreds of years of lost social and scientific development. This goes for pretty much every religion dating back to even greek mythology. The only religion that might have slight merit is that of Ancient Sumer, and even that is a stretch depending on how you interpret it. The only "God" is the one a person chooses to believe in despite the facts and consequently inhibits them from making informed intelligent decisions. Thus I strongly disagree that children should be taught about Religion. That child can simply give up that belief system and then they have no reason to fear retribution for acting unethically. Children should instead be taught by example to be good, and shown that being bad is not as rewarding as it might appear. Teach them to be good because it's the right thing to do, not because some ridiculous dude in the sky says they have to.

[Zap]

I won't make many comments here to not take this way off topic.

I disagree with many of your conclusions.

1. Capitalism is a neutral system. Simply a supply and demand through the free market. The failure is eclusively human weakness. poor and rich suffer from greed.
There could be an argument for a better system but one has not been created as of yet.
The failure of monarchies, of Marxist inspired societies are simply greed and power abuse by government.
Lets hope a new form will of governance will be fertile ground for individual rights to be respected.

2.Your view of religion is, well very different from mine. The fear you speak of is not my motivating factor. Its love for the Supreme Being who guides me. I'm taught to respect my neighbor, to avoid greed. These along with many other teachings on how to being a good human being(as you stated, we need the good example of people ) push me to give good example.

I think I will leave it at that, since I've already got into non permitted areas, politics and religion. I'm now a 2 time offender of the rule here on these boards

[Bamilus]

Didn't meant to derail this thread and yea we should obey forum rules and probably stop discussing sensitive topics here (although they were very good posts).

To try and bring this back on track: currently all the research mods are dead, right? Anyone want to take up the torch? lol

[Osito]

The problem is that it's so difficult to get them running with other mods. That's a bit of a disincentive.

For example, if you do a mod for Icemania's AI improvement, you have to stay consistent with what Icemania did, or you lose the AI improvements. And if you want the mod to work with Icemania's AI 'extended' mod, you'll need a completely separate file.

And then if Icemania or Haree update their mods, you may need to update your own for consistency.

Having said that, I am myself working on a research mod specifically for the AI improvement mod. This is intended for my own use, and I am calling it 'Research UNBALANCED'. I may release it, if I enjoy playing it myself.

Osito

[Unforeseen]

My bad for breaking the rules, my hatred of religion demands that I respond with hostility to any mention of it and I generally don't think to check the guidelines which I should get better about. But anyways back on topic...there are only a couple people left in the community that I think would be willing to undertake such a task and they are all already busy with other mods. I'm not even prepared to do it.

I'm sure someone will eventually finish a nice big one at some point, perhaps Lurchi will come back and finish or something. But It doesn't look like we can expect one in the near future and we are all able to make little modifications of our own anyways. I like to change several of the weapons names, and change the tree a bit.

[Locarnus]

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

I was curious about his accusation of fraud and such so I looked up universe and it's been there. The entire time. It was even on sale during the holidays.

Locarnus has a point regarding retailers and really every major corporation atm, but his hostility to matrix is misplaced. There simply seems to be a misunderstanding of priorities here.

You show me how someone who bought Vanilla+RotS+Legends+Shadows can upgrade to Universe without paying full price again, and I reconsider my accessment of matrixgames as being scammers.

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

Locarnus is a perfect example of why the United States is screwed in 50 years. My generation and those coming up are the most entitled pricks I have ever seen. "If I can't have it, no one will!"

Yeah, says the freeloader who thinks he is entitled to a mod he did not pay for and did not help with in any regard while insulting the mod author for having moral standards, which are the basis of every community.

Then continues on whining that there is no one left, willing to supply the free mods he feels entitled to...

You know, people like me might be a small example of why the US is failing at least since the 80s. Because people like me tend to leave when people like you get the upper hand. And people like you do not seem to be very productive except for providing even more incentives for people like me to leave...


It was a game with great potential, unfortunately dev, publisher and community were not, when it mattered. So the first is "rich", the second as well and the community is dead/virtually non-existant. I wonder who made the wrong choices...


It is always fun to come back here and see what happens, when short-sighted greed gets the upper hand. Very few get the money and do not care while the consuming masses are irrelevant, and are still defending the ideology which got them into this situation. A little like watching news about the US, from a safe distance [:'(].

I guess I have to amend to what I stated above, you are productive.
Thank you for the entertainment you provide.

[mnjiman]

I think it is Locarnus's right whether or not he wants to continue working on his Mod. That is up to him, whether we like his reasoning or not. What does attacking his fundamentals do for the community besides continue to bolster our ego's? Well, I guess the majority of people here might be upset that a decent mod maker decided to stop working. That doesn't mean there are not other modders out there willing to make mods like this one. It isn't hard to do just takes time.

I mean the entire purpose of Distant Worlds Universe was to introduce a easier ability to make modifications to the game, and to share them to one another. We should be grateful to anyone who considers making these huge mods for us to further enjoy the game. Some of these mods would not even be possible without the Universe addition.

I agree though, Matrix Games have become such scammers. If you went ahead and purchased every single expansion you should have every right to the this new expansion, providing further support for a 5 year old game for free. Forcing players to pay what, 20-25 dollars after reducing the price of it. I mean, how dare they force players to pay for their hard work...

Really I hope you can tell my sarcasm at this point. The level or irony of you complaining that people are mooching off your free work as your complaining about Matrix Games not providing their work for free... wow. Its hard to imagine someone attempting to defend their position with type of argument. You are complaining about people mooching off of you... as you are complaining about that Matrix games not providing their continue support for free? That is their choice, as its your own choice to stop working on this modification that you created. People are annoyed not that you are stopping. People are not bothered that you are moving on with your life.

People are just starting to have severe aneurysms over your reasoning's and the way your attempt to communicate your thoughts to explain your choices. I stick to my very first statement. It is your right to stop your mod. That is up to you. However if you are going to go ahead and make nonsensical posts and then get pissed off at people not understanding your positioning, the only person here to blame is yourself and your fundamentals for your reasoning simply collapses.

I would not even call you a modder at this point. I would not call this mess anything relating to programming or the community. You are just a troll.