Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

[vicberg]

North Oz it is. Suva first. I'll starve out Manila.

[vicberg]

March 19th, 1942

I don't think the Chinese north can hold. Looks like a defense in depth. I think that will only allow me to kill units in piecemeal.

Tienshui fell easily. It is so damn hard to coordinate multiple hex attacks. The northern most attack was on a road and the eastern thrust across a rail. So I coordinated moves vs. combats moves as best I could. Thought I had it correct, but the 3 divs to the east came up 1 mile short. That was LUCKY, as I would have been overstacked in spite of my math. I Div (26th Mongolian) and the armor/arty carried the day with ease across the river.

I already have 3 divs accross the river and will soon start more aggressive attacking.

Not sure why he's moving into the mountains (or staying there). Possibly to threaten my LOC, but with stacking limits in all of these hexes, I have more than enough to counter any moves he may make.

Ground combat at Tienshui (81,38)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 19919 troops, 292 guns, 491 vehicles, Assault Value = 716

Defending force 5262 troops, 6 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 102

Japanese adjusted assault: 914

Allied adjusted defense: 43

Japanese assault odds: 21 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Tienshui !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
181 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Vehicles lost 26 (1 destroyed, 25 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
4558 casualties reported
Squads: 72 destroyed, 58 disabled
Non Combat: 125 destroyed, 43 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 7 (7 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 4
Units destroyed 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
5th Armored Car Co
15th Tank Regiment
26th Division
9th Tank Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
8th Ind Engineer Regiment
13th Tank Regiment
10th Tank Regiment
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
1st Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
23rd Chinese Corps
34th Separate Brigade
43rd Chinese Corps
4th Group Army
6th Group Army

[vicberg]

Central/Southern China

And why I believe his forward deployment in the north may bite him.

The 25th Army has begun it's assault in the Southwest. 1 Division and 1 Brigade supported by armor and artillery. 2 more divisions are in route. Wuchow is the goal. From there, I can threaten both north straight into Chungking or continue towards Changsha. He'll need to disburse his units to cover both.

Wenchow is awaiting China Command.

Some definitely strange combat results. A Brigade crossed the river today. Armor was already in place, yet I torch his units. Nanning has been the target of airfield attacks for a few days now. Wondering if that caused the Chinese fatigue or the Armor crossing did it? The 56th Division will be crossing the river tomorrow and an corresponding attack for those units already across the river has been scheduled.

Ground combat at Nanning (72,55)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 3009 troops, 134 guns, 340 vehicles, Assault Value = 334

Defending force 17944 troops, 76 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 351

Japanese adjusted assault: 20

Allied adjusted defense: 369

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 18 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-)
fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 76 (4 destroyed, 72 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
672 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 37 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Assaulting units:
1st Tank Regiment
8th Tank Regiment
23rd Ind Engineer Regiment
19th Ind Engineer Regiment
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
4th Tank Regiment
15th Ind Engineer Regiment
20th Ind Engineer Regiment
6th Tank Regiment
25th Army
5th Mortar Battalion
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
1st RF Gun Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
52nd Chinese Corps
64th Chinese Corps
35th Group Army

[vicberg]

Somewhere Else!

Yes I finally have something to report somewhere else than China.

He's reinforcing Norfolk Island. He laid a CAP trap and nailed bout 10 Betties yesterday with Air Cobras. Today I responded with airfield attacks. KB was set to Naval/Airfield and chose the Airfield over the ships.

2 BB SAGS are in route to shut down the airfield and an Naval Guard will invade.

There's a good chance to destroy some of his planes. After the CAP Trap, which he seems quite good at, he grounded them today, as I usually respond with a sweep. I don't think he counted on the KB coming into play. The BB SAG should be hitting the field tomorrow morning, followed by another round from the KB and finally the invasion.

Afternoon Air attack on Norfolk Island , at 113,170

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 27 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 67
B5N2 Kate x 102
D3A1 Val x 69

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged
D3A1 Val: 7 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-400 Airacobra: 49 damaged
P-400 Airacobra: 6 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 22
Airbase supply hits 9
Runway hits 55


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Norfolk Island , at 113,170

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 71
B5N2 Kate x 110
D3A1 Val x 65

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 3 damaged
D3A1 Val: 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-400 Airacobra: 18 damaged
P-400 Airacobra: 4 destroyed on ground

[Lowpe]

Be aware that a North Oz move by Japan won't prevent the Allies from picking their axis of advance in 1943. See Mr. Kane vs Spidery....

However, having western Oz lets you search and see it coming hopefully and may cause the Allies to look to advance elsewhere. Whether that is good or bad is up to you...

I always pound Wenchow with ships to ease its capture. I believe I told you before that some elite Chinese start there, and that it does generate supply.

Keep moving forward in China, draining their supplies, and it will most likely be yours. Keep the Burma road cut, get the industrial production in the Changsha triangle, and push on to encircling Chungking. Destroyed Chinese will spawn there, overstack the base, and create a nightmare for the Allies.

[vicberg]

I've been pounding Wenchow every day for over a month. I allowed it to get to level 4 and it's a real pain in my side right now. Once China Command gets into range (it was focused on Tienshui and it now in route to Sinyang, I can start Wenchow (Operation Tojo Saves Face).

[ny59giants]

Be aware that a North Oz move by Japan won't prevent the Allies from picking their axis of advance in 1943. See Mr. Kane vs Spidery....

This is true. However, if Allies have the NW corner of Australia, then Japan needs to garrison a lot of territory from Java down to Timor. IMO, it make this threat axis more vulnerable.

Wenchow - In my current game vs John 3rd, he had three divisions there and devoted some BBs to hit the base. Eventually, he kicked me out, but the 100th Chinese Corp is still putting up a stiff resistance to NE of base as of May '42. At the time, he had me on the ropes from Kukong up to Changsha and had troops in Hengyang. If those troops had been further west when he did his big initial push, he could have overwhelmed me. IMO, keep a strong brigade at Wenchow now and use those divisions to make a push somewhere else. From your map, if you capture Pingsiang, then you can cut off those three bases in clear terrain near Changsha and possibly isolate Changsha.

[vicberg]

I'm not sure Tojo's fragile psyche could handle not taking Wenchow. Definitely something to consider. It's a true beotch.

NW OZ will be taken. I'm amassing initial troops (I have the 21st Div in Soerabaja) and a couple of regiments plus transports. The 1st Para Division is on Ambon (also just taken) and can either clean up all the other bases in the area that need taking or go forward with OZ. The Tinas have the range for a paradrop.

With Norfolk and Lord Howe, and taking Suva. I'll be done in SoPac. For NW OZ, I believe Koepang can cover a coastal invasion. At least that's my initial plan. The KB could easily shift, but with 4 assault divs and 1 mixed Bdg, slew of reinforcement naval guards now in Truk and the KB in the area, I'm considering an invasion of NE OZ as well. I'll lose the amphib bonus though.

I've decided to go ahead and take a pop at Manila and test it's strength. If it looks promising, I'll take it. If not, I'll transfer troops down for NW OZ and leave a couple of divs and the 65th army to starve them out. Naval bombardments of Manila are starting today.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Wenchow - In my current game vs John 3rd, he had three divisions there and devoted some BBs to hit the base. Eventually, he kicked me out, but the 100th Chinese Corp is still putting up a stiff resistance to NE of base as of May '42. At the time, he had me on the ropes from Kukong up to Changsha and had troops in Hengyang. If those troops had been further west when he did his big initial push, he could have overwhelmed me. IMO, keep a strong brigade at Wenchow now and use those divisions to make a push somewhere else. From your map, if you capture Pingsiang, then you can cut off those three bases in clear terrain near Changsha and possibly isolate Changsha.

That is probably very sound advice.[&o] Speeding up the fall of China has a ton of positive impacts on the game for Japan.

[vicberg]

I've wondered what would happen if Japan took a historical perimeter, stopping at Solomons, Gilberts, no OZ, India, etc...and then just builds up. Conserve fuel and supply, build up massive air power, possibly even expand the economy for greater air production. Boring game (at least until 43), but enables Japan to use it's meager ENG and INF Units to defend and build up a tighter area with high forts, interlocking bases, etc...

When I look at the war historically, Japan *should* have focused on collapsing China long before deciding to attack the US, and open the LOC from Vietnam to Fusan. They launched an operation in 44 exactly for this purpose, and succeeded, but it was too late.

Unfortunately, this game doesn't accurately reflect the combat that occurred in China. It's too easy for Japan to collapse China. At least with this mod, you MUST dedicate additional troops to make it happen because of the massive garrison increase. I have 200 garrisons for Urmuchi and another 450 for Yenki. I'm afraid to see what's coming down the pike for the cities yet to be taken.

Interesting enough, the WITP board game (which I owned) did reflect combat in China. No matter how much firepower japan brought to a hex, only the top Chinese unit was affected. I forget how it worked for China attacking, but it wasn't good. In essence, China could defend like there's no tomorrow. They did little damage and caused little damage, but it took forever to chew through their units.

[ny59giants]

Avoid Lord Howe Island - I'm not sure, but the 'country code' may be for Australia and since its below Brisbane, you 'may' trigger emergency reinforcements.

[vicberg]

I won't take a chance on Lord Howe then.

[vicberg]

March 22nd, 1942

The first attack on Manila went much better than I expected. I'll stay and take the city.

Ground combat at Manila (79,77)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 77169 troops, 736 guns, 344 vehicles, Assault Value = 2021

Defending force 63443 troops, 442 guns, 170 vehicles, Assault Value = 1582

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 1171

Allied adjusted defense: 1149

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), preparation(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
5259 casualties reported
Squads: 45 destroyed, 387 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 63 disabled
Engineers: 11 destroyed, 52 disabled
Guns lost 37 (1 destroyed, 36 disabled)
Vehicles lost 13 (1 destroyed, 12 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1184 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 131 disabled
Non Combat: 9 destroyed, 79 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled
Guns lost 41 (1 destroyed, 40 disabled)
Vehicles lost 21 (2 destroyed, 19 disabled)

Assaulting units:
65th Brigade
4th Division
5th Division
16th Division
21st Ind Engineer Regiment
48th Division
2nd Division
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
14th Army
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
21st PA Infantry Division
1st PA Infantry Division
51st PA Infantry Division
1st Constabulary Regiment
41st PA Infantry Division
194th Tank Battalion
26th PS Cavalry Regiment
24th Avn Sup
192nd Tank Battalion
71st PA Infantry Division
35th Avn Sup
91st PA Infantry Division
11th PA Infantry Division
4th Marine Regiment
31st PA Infantry Division
I/43rd PS Inf Battalion
57th PS Infantry Regiment
2nd Constabulary Regiment
US Forces Far East
11th PAAC Avn Sup
200th & 515th Coast AA Regiment
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
II Corps
Nichols Field AAF Base Force
86th PS Field Artillery Battalion
24th PS FA Regiment
4th PAAC Avn Sup
Far East USAAF
Cavite USN Base Force
!/23rd PS FA Battalion
Clark Field AAF Base Force
27th Avn Sup
1st USMC AA Battalion
Asiatic Fleet
I/Prov'nl SPM Grp

Central/Southern China
I have decided to shift the bulk of the 13th Army to the Center.

At Changsha, I actually might have enough juice to take the city. Bombardment revealed that I have 2500 AV to his 1500 AV, not including forts. Tempting. However, I'm going to see if I can take the city without a fight by moving the 11th Army (minus 1 division on Changsha) south and attempt a river crossing behind Changsha. I'm guessing he will be forced to pull out of the city.

At Nanning, I'm resting one more day and then have confidence I'll take the city.


SoPac
Norfolk fell to the Naval Guards. KB is going back to Truk and LBA can take over for Suva. Lesson learned. Have an exact goal for the KB at all times. It's too expensive in terms of fuel to simply run it around. It helped in SoPac, but wasn't really needed.

[ny59giants]

At Changsha, I actually might have enough juice to take the city. Bombardment revealed that I have 2500 AV to his 1500 AV, not including forts. Tempting. However, I'm going to see if I can take the city without a fight by moving the 11th Army (minus 1 division on Changsha) south and attempt a river crossing behind Changsha. I'm guessing he will be forced to pull out of the city.

Force him to stay and lose all those troops by maneuvering around it and taking control of hexsides (it helps when you post screen shots to hit 'F6' key to remove hexsides and then 'W' to show hexside control). The key IMO will be capture of the hex due NW of Changsha on trail to Changteh and then having a small LCU cross over into Changsha to have hexside control shift to you and prevent a retreat to safety.

Right now, hit the AF at Changsha with your bombers to prevent two things - fort building and destroying supplies to below 2x level so his troops cannot take in replacement infantry.

For me, I would prep my China Command HQ for Changsha. At Wenchow, I would work LCUs in and out (if you have a division, divide into 1/3 and use one to go into jungle and then into base to gain control of a hexside) of base to gain control of ALL hexsides so he cannot retreat out of the hex.

[vicberg]

March 21st, 1942

Not really much to report except one of the weirdest set of sub battles I've seen.

First, around Geralton. My sub commander is getting a medal for this. Since they don't have sonar yet, how did this happen? Did they see each other, come to surface to hurl insults at each other and then my commander pulled a fast one and fired?

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 22, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub vs Sub: SS I-8 attacking SS S-39 at 47,134 - near Carnarvon

Japanese Ships
SS I-8

Allied Ships
SS S-39, heavy damage

SS I-8 launches 2 torpedoes at 3,000 yards

Then At Adak, this guy comes into the harbor and thinks about it and goes naaa.

ASW attack near Adak Island at 162,52

Japanese Ships
AO Naruto
AO Hayamoto
PB Chitose Maru #2

Allied Ships
SS S-43

Then comes in again and goes naaaa

ASW attack near Adak Island at 162,52

Japanese Ships
PB Zosen Maru
PB Takunan Maru

Allied Ships
SS S-43

SS S-43 is located by PB Zosen Maru

And a third time

ASW attack near Adak Island at 162,52

Japanese Ships
AO Naruto
AO Hayamoto
PB Chitose Maru #2

Allied Ships
SS S-43

And because 4th time is a charm

ASW attack near Adak Island at 162,52

Japanese Ships
AO Naruto
AO Hayamoto
PB Chitose Maru #2

Allied Ships
SS S-43, hits 3

And this guy is going to get the "I've done nothing all war, I'm going to do something dammit" award of the war, because 2 torps in an AKL isn't enough

Submarine attack near Ta'u at 152,159

Japanese Ships
SS I-168, hits 1

Allied Ships
xAKL Hamakua, Shell hits 24, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

xAKL Hamakua is sighted by SS I-168
SS I-168 attacking on the surface
SS I-168 low on gun ammo, Kanno A. breaks off surface engagement and submerges

[vicberg]

March 22nd, 1942

I guess my sub force is getting ichy for actual targets. This guy sinks 2 fish into an AKL

Submarine attack near Newcastle at 93,168

Japanese Ships
SS I-1

Allied Ships
xAKL Wollongbar, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

xAKL Wollongbar is sighted by SS I-1
SS I-1 attacking xAKL Wollongbar on the surface

and because that's not enough

Submarine attack near Newcastle at 93,168

Japanese Ships
SS I-1

Allied Ships
xAKL Wollongbar, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

xAKL Wollongbar is sighted by SS I-1
SS I-1 attacking xAKL Wollongbar on the surface

Southern China

Nanning fell easily

Ground combat at Nanning (72,55)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 25700 troops, 300 guns, 414 vehicles, Assault Value = 772

Defending force 16743 troops, 75 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 246

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 1193

Allied adjusted defense: 105

Japanese assault odds: 11 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Nanning !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
326 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Vehicles lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
6890 casualties reported
Squads: 166 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 263 destroyed, 23 disabled
Engineers: 35 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 16 (14 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units retreated 3

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
1st Tank Regiment
8th Tank Regiment
18th Division
4th Tank Regiment
19th Ind Engineer Regiment
20th Ind Engineer Regiment
15th Ind Engineer Regiment
23rd Ind Engineer Regiment
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
6th Tank Regiment
25th Army
1st RF Gun Battalion
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
5th Mortar Battalion
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
52nd Chinese Corps
64th Chinese Corps
35th Group Army

Luzon

Manila will fall shortly

Ground combat at Manila (79,77)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 68103 troops, 703 guns, 343 vehicles, Assault Value = 1708

Defending force 61150 troops, 436 guns, 167 vehicles, Assault Value = 1407

Japanese adjusted assault: 604

Allied adjusted defense: 1037

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2222 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 326 disabled
Non Combat: 18 destroyed, 48 disabled
Engineers: 30 destroyed, 42 disabled
Vehicles lost 11 (4 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1707 casualties reported
Squads: 16 destroyed, 76 disabled
Non Combat: 27 destroyed, 88 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 14 disabled
Guns lost 31 (21 destroyed, 10 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Other Places
Daily bombardments of Wenchow, Manila and Suva. The KB shut down Suva airfield and is now in transit to Truk. Transports are coming together for N. OZ.

[KenchiSulla]

Lord Howe Island doesn't seem to trigger reinforcements for the allied player. At least, I haven't heard Mundy cheering....

[witpqs]

I just looked (provided the same as my game), and mainland Australia is country code 30, while Lord Howe Island is country code 32.

[vicberg]

Looks like meat's back on the table boys. Looks to me like Lord Howe is worth the effort.

[vicberg]

I guess its a good thing to get multiple divisions depleted massively. After a month of watching them and wondering why some of them don't seem to be replenishing at all, check out a leader. Hmmmmm, a Admin of 36?

A staff person walks into the room. The commander has a map out with lots of military figures on it. The commander is bent over, staring intently at the figures and moving them around.

"Sir, please sign form 182-A, authorization for the requisition of troops form, so we can get it sent off fast"

"Huh? Sure put it over there." There's a stack of 100 papers in a corner of the desk. None of them have been signed. The commander goes back to looking at his figures.

"Sir, if we don't get this form signed, we can't sign form 182-B, requisition of troops form"

"Umm, don't worry, I'll get to it (continuing to bend down at the level of his figures, looking through them). Can you get me some more cake."