Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
I did not check that your CP routes complied with the following, but maybe you did...ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Route 6: French Convoys in West Africa, the Mediterranean, Australia to Canada.
ORIGINAL: Froonp
I did not check that your CP routes complied with the following, but maybe you did...ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Route 6: French Convoys in West Africa, the Mediterranean, Australia to Canada.
Remember that all ships at sea, including CP, must have a port in range where they could return to base, even if they never return to base. If they don't, they are lost, so any CP route need to have its CP pass in range from a port where they could return to base.
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[font="times new roman"]17.2 Determine control[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Roll a die for each of the other administration groups to determine who controls it. A group becomes controlled by the (Free) French player if the roll is within the range shown on this chart. Otherwise, it remains controlled by Vichy France[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Morocco, Algeria & Tunisia 10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]French West Africa 9–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Syria 9–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Indo-China 9–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Madagascar 8–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]All Asian map minors & territories 7–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]French Equatorial Africa 3–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]All Pacific map minors & territories 2–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]All other territories & minors 9–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]* ~ Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan French port.[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Each hex France controls in a territory or home country controlled by another major power or minor country reverts to the control of:[/font]
[font="times new roman"](a) The major power occupying the hex (if any); or if none[/font]
[font="times new roman"](b) That other major power or minor country. [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Free France must now choose one of its remaining minor countries as its new home nation. If Free France controls no minor countries, she suffers the effect of complete conquest (see 13.7.1) immediately.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]
ORIGINAL: Extraneous
[font="times new roman"]Assuming the U.S.A. doesn’t intern the French CV and the French Navy is in the respective ports shown at time Vichy is declared.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"][/font][/font]
[font="times new roman"]17.2 Determine control[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Roll a die for each of the other administration groups to determine who controls it. A group becomes controlled by the (Free) French player if the roll is within the range shown on this chart. Otherwise, it remains controlled by Vichy France[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Morocco, Algeria & Tunisia 10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]French West Africa 9–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Syria 9–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Indo-China 9–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Madagascar 8–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]All Asian map minors & territories 7–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]French Equatorial Africa 3–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]All Pacific map minors & territories 2–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"]All other territories & minors 9–10[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]* ~ Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan French port.[/font]
[font="times new roman"]Each hex France controls in a territory or home country controlled by another major power or minor country reverts to the control of:[/font]
[font="times new roman"](a) The major power occupying the hex (if any); or if none[/font]
[font="times new roman"](b) That other major power or minor country. [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Free France must now choose one of its remaining minor countries as its new home nation. If Free France controls no minor countries, she suffers the effect of complete conquest (see 13.7.1) immediately.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Plan - Main base Marseille, CV Brest - Minus 2 to die roll. Possible Free French in: Madagascar, Asian map minors & territories, French Equatorial Africa, Pacific map minors & territories, and other territories & minors.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Plan - Two main bases Marseille and Brest - Minus 6 to die roll. Possible Free French in: French Equatorial Africa and Pacific map minors & territories.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Plan – Oran - Minus 16 to die roll. No Free French.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Plan – Main base Marseille risk CV – Standard die roll for Free French.[/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"] [/font]
[font="times new roman"]Plan – Main base Morocco and Brest - Minus 12 to die roll. No Free French.[/font]
ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Optional rules that might affect Convoy Deployment %
• In the presence of the enemy
• Options Oil and Saving build points and resources (need transport home Iraq?)
• Rough Seas
• Convoys In Flame
• Oil tankers
• Cruisers in flames
Very true. Sunk and damaged BBs do not generate the -2 DRM even if 100% are sunk or damaged.ORIGINAL: composer99
I am sure this has been mentioned before in this thread, but in RAW Vichy (the Vichy rule being implemented for MWiF) France has little reason to preserve its battlefleet and should use it aggressively in an effort to grind down the Italian navy before France falls.
ORIGINAL: peskpesk
You are correct that France receives minus if the on-map French CVs or BBs are in not currently in a Metropolitan French ports, but remember that CA does not count and the -2 modifier apples if any CVs or BBs, not for each CVs or BBs.
You are also correct that for the AIO to linger outside Metropolitan French ports when Axis draws near Paris is a bad move. The plan is that the AIO will relocate the fleet in time to avoid the -2 modifier.
How would you like to setup the French navy? And are there any setups you like/dislike?
ORIGINAL: composer99
Extraneous:
Brest, Bordeaux, and the ports on the French Atlantic seaboard will not accrue penalties for the formation of Free France.
At any rate, France has anywhere from 3-6 turns to get the BBs and (if not already sunk or interned, the Béarn) to ports in France. Chances are a combined or naval can be spared in the winter to make this happen.
17.1 Creation
An Axis major power can choose to install a Vichy Government if one of its in-supply land units occupies Paris in a peace step and France is not conquered. If more than one Axis major power occupies Paris, then Germany has first choice as to whether it wishes to establish a Vichy government.
If you install a Vichy government, Metropolitan France itself is divided into 2 countries - Metropolitan Vichy France (including Corsica if still French controlled) and Occupied France. A line on the map marks the border. The capital of Metropolitan Vichy France is Vichy. Paris remains the capital of Occupied France.
Occupied France is a conquered major power home country controlled by the Axis major power that installed the Vichy government. Control of occupied France is as per 13.7.1 except that all hexes controlled by French units become controlled by the Axis major power installing the Vichy government.
Metropolitan Vichy France is the home country of a new major power ~ Vichy France.
Vichy France is a neutral major power run by the Axis major power
Free France is an alternative government also established at this time.
Free France is considered an incompletely conquered major power from now on unless otherwise specified. It is run by the French player. Free France starts at war with all countries France was at war with, and at peace with all others (including Vichy France).
French territories and minor countries already conquered by the Axis remain conquered by them.
All other French territories and minor countries may be aligned with either Vichy France or Free France.
17.2 Determine control
Roll a die for each of the other administration groups to determine who controls it. A group becomes controlled by the (Free) French player if the roll is within the range shown on this chart. Otherwise, it remains controlled by Vichy France:
We have arranged these rules in sequence-of-play order. Optional rules are generally in the same place as the standard rule they modify. They are separated from the standard rules by being framed in grey. All optional rules are exactly that and each option can be played in part or full provided all players agree.
If you install a Vichy government, Metropolitan France itself is divided into 2 countries - Metropolitan Vichy France (including Corsica if still French controlled) and Occupied France. A line on the map marks the border. The capital of Metropolitan Vichy France is Vichy. Paris remains the capital of Occupied France.
Therefore “* ~ Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan French port.”
Should be read as “* ~ Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan Vichy French port.”
ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
This happens when you are determining which territories will go to Free France or Metropolitan Vichy France. At this moment you are still in Metropolitan France (before partition) and because of this the ships in Northern France are inside Metropolitan France, which still exists.
IMO
Metropolitan Vichy France is not the same as Metropolitan France.ORIGINAL: Extraneous
ORIGINAL: composer99
Extraneous:
Brest, Bordeaux, and the ports on the French Atlantic seaboard will not accrue penalties for the formation of Free France.
At any rate, France has anywhere from 3-6 turns to get the BBs and (if not already sunk or interned, the Béarn) to ports in France. Chances are a combined or naval can be spared in the winter to make this happen.17.1 Creation
An Axis major power can choose to install a Vichy Government if one of its in-supply land units occupies Paris in a peace step and France is not conquered. If more than one Axis major power occupies Paris, then Germany has first choice as to whether it wishes to establish a Vichy government.
If you install a Vichy government, Metropolitan France itself is divided into 2 countries - Metropolitan Vichy France (including Corsica if still French controlled) and Occupied France. A line on the map marks the border. The capital of Metropolitan Vichy France is Vichy. Paris remains the capital of Occupied France.
Occupied France is a conquered major power home country controlled by the Axis major power that installed the Vichy government. Control of occupied France is as per 13.7.1 except that all hexes controlled by French units become controlled by the Axis major power installing the Vichy government.
Metropolitan Vichy France is the home country of a new major power ~ Vichy France.
Vichy France is a neutral major power run by the Axis major power
Free France is an alternative government also established at this time.
Free France is considered an incompletely conquered major power from now on unless otherwise specified. It is run by the French player. Free France starts at war with all countries France was at war with, and at peace with all others (including Vichy France).
French territories and minor countries already conquered by the Axis remain conquered by them.
All other French territories and minor countries may be aligned with either Vichy France or Free France.
17.2 Determine control
Roll a die for each of the other administration groups to determine who controls it. A group becomes controlled by the (Free) French player if the roll is within the range shown on this chart. Otherwise, it remains controlled by Vichy France:
I disagree with you Brest, Bordeaux, and the ports on the French Atlantic seaboard do accrue penalties for the formation of Free France.
As the Rules state:
We have arranged these rules in sequence-of-play order. Optional rules are generally in the same place as the standard rule they modify. They are separated from the standard rules by being framed in grey. All optional rules are exactly that and each option can be played in part or full provided all players agree.
Rule “17.1 Creation” France is divided into 2 countries - Metropolitan Vichy France and Occupied France.
Rule ”17.2 Determine control” supports my view with the statement “Otherwise, it remains controlled by Vichy France”.
Therefore “* ~ Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan French port.”
Should be read as “* ~ Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan Vichy French port.”
Since Metropolitan French ports no longer exist at the time rule ”17.2 Determine control” is implemented.
ORIGINAL: Orm
Metropolitan Vichy France is not the same as Metropolitan France.
Metropolitan France is divided into two separate countries. That does not change the the definition of Metropolitan France. Just that its territory now belongs to two new countries.
In FAQ there is a question on a closely related matter. There the answer clearly states that the original French home country ports count.
Cut from: WiFFE_FAQ_v1.3_7_Jul_2009
Q17.2-1
Q: "Not currently in a Metropolitan French port" does not include force pools, scrap pile, repair pool, construction pool, and production spiral correct?
A: Only original French home country ports count. This does not include force pools, scrap pile, repair pool, construction pool, and production spiral, nor does it include the port in the territory of Corsica. Date 19/01/2009
It may be silly, but it stresses the fact that Metropolitan French ports are in questions, and Brest & Bordeaux are Metropolitan French ports in saying that "Only original French home country ports count".ORIGINAL: Extraneous
The FAQ question is silly since: force pools, scrap pile, repair pool, construction pool, and production spiral are not on-map.
* ~ Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan French port.
Therefore “* ~ Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan French port.”
Should be read as “* ~ Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan Vichy French port.”
ORIGINAL: Froonp
It may be silly, but it stresses the fact that Metropolitan French ports are in questions, and Brest & Bordeaux are Metropolitan French ports in saying that "Only original French home country ports count".ORIGINAL: Extraneous
The FAQ question is silly since: force pools, scrap pile, repair pool, construction pool, and production spiral are not on-map.
* ~ Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan French port.
Supporting that Bordeaux is not metropolitan France, that is silly Mr. Extraneous.
Therefore “* ~ Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan French port.”
Should be read as “* ~ Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan Vichy French port.”
Unfortunately Mr. Extraneous is not writing the rules, Harry Rowland does, and he additionnaly wrote on 19/01/2009 that "Only original French home country ports count".
It reads as it reads, and Metropolitan France is still a valid concept even though Metropolitan Vichy France also exist.
Saying that the FAQ written by the game designer is stupid, or that he poorly writes rules does not make you look brighter nor makes you be right.
