MWiF Global War Hot-Seat (AAR)

[composer99]

If the 6-a2a FTR aren't going to CAP, send in the LND. You don't have to commit them until after the Germans have committed to CAP or not. 2 bombers vs Rundstet and one on another hex (Kharkov, perhaps). The FTR3 if it intercepts gives one worse result if you intercept with your own FTR. If the USSR gets lucky they disorganize Rundstet and the last Stuka in the Ukraine front, which means they can retreat more slowly.

If the USSR had a few more units in theatre (and especially an ARM div) I'd say blow the o-chit to take back Kharkov and kill (or at least shatter) Rundstet. However, without the ability to call the blitz on Rundstet's hex I'm hesitant to suggest it. If everything in Rundstet's hex died (HQ-A, MOT, LND2+pilot from being overrun) that would make the expense of the chit worth it.

Also, the USSR has no front in the north, so they can't prevent getting encircled in the Ukraine right now if they did stand and counter-attack.

The groundstrike needs to happen, though, IMO.


Persia: The USSR needs to extend the line to the Caspian Sea coast. I don't think they have to do it this turn because the German disorganized stack prevents the Germans from hooking around (there's an Alpine hexside in the way, too, I think). But it needs to happen.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: composer99

If the 6-a2a FTR aren't going to CAP, send in the LND. You don't have to commit them until after the Germans have committed to CAP or not. 2 bombers vs Rundstet and one on another hex (Kharkov, perhaps). The FTR3 if it intercepts gives one worse result if you intercept with your own FTR. If the USSR gets lucky they disorganize Rundstet and the last Stuka in the Ukraine front, which means they can retreat more slowly.

If the USSR had a few more units in theatre (and especially an ARM div) I'd say blow the o-chit to take back Kharkov and kill (or at least shatter) Rundstet. However, without the ability to call the blitz on Rundstet's hex I'm hesitant to suggest it. If everything in Rundstet's hex died (HQ-A, MOT, LND2+pilot from being overrun) that would make the expense of the chit worth it.

Also, the USSR has no front in the north, so they can't prevent getting encircled in the Ukraine right now if they did stand and counter-attack.

The groundstrike needs to happen, though, IMO.


Persia: The USSR needs to extend the line to the Caspian Sea coast. I don't think they have to do it this turn because the German disorganized stack prevents the Germans from hooking around (there's an Alpine hexside in the way, too, I think). But it needs to happen.

Kharkov wasn't taken away. It's still in Soviet hands.

Germany can come close to getting around the Caspian side next impulse. The USSR will have to spread the line soon.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Orm

So, do I make the invasion or not?

Not.

Not. Merely threaten the invasion for now.

Get some units into Archangel. We don't want the Germans/Finns simply walking up the railroad and taking the city. They are short handed right now in the north but that won't last.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Finally, in Persia, the 2nd MECH Division in Tabriz is just bait. Can you hear them begging the Soviets to attack? Meanwhile, Italy is building up for an attack on Teheran to liberate the Persian people. They'll be able to make a decent attack in 2 impulses, and if Germany helps out, they can make a pretty good attack at that point. For Italy, all that matters is that the INF in Teheran dies. It would be wonderful to take over Persia this turn, but if it means waiting until S/O '41 to get the job done, that's just fine with Italy.

The Japanese fleet in the Arabian Sea is still pretty strong, even if you don't include the Air-to-Sea factors of the CVP (Storm), so it's unlikely that the Allies will be able to dislodge them in the coming impulse. That means supply in this part of the world should be safe for another impulse or two.

Since the 7-6 MECH can reach the last mountain hex in the line, that hex has to be occupied. Sent the 3-2 east. Shuffle the rest of the line: the 4-3 and 5-3 move east. The 1-4 moves 2 hexes west. That gives defensive values of 17, 26, 14, and 6.

I would risk a ground strike on Guderian using the SB-2. If that works, then everything is good for the rest of the turn here.

[Centuur]

I think I wouldn't invade this impulse. However: I agree that the Invasion force should be gathered in the UK. Also: I agree with Steve that units should be put into Murmansk and Archangel. There isn't another CW HQ in the UK I presume? That than means that US units have to be used for this. That Finnish Ski Division is one hex to close to Murmansk to wait another turn.

On the Persian front I agree on the moves Steve proposes.
Also: I like the proposed USSR ground strikes on von Rundstedt. Yes, they are risky, but if the Germans don't use the FTR for CAP, it means at least one of the German FTR3 will have to be used and those TAC factors won't be available for nasty ground strikes or support. This might means another turn with the German Luftwaffe being far behind the front. Nice... Use one of those crappy USSR bombers as front bomber and one of the better ones as the next in line. If the first bomber is killed or your best bomber is cleared, abort.
And imagine what happens if vRundstedt cannot be used for the rest of the turn...

Yes: Mr. von Rundstedt would get some Soviet eggs on his head this impulse...
However: killing him is unfortunately not an option, even with the O-Chit. The moment the Russians crack that chit on Koniev, as the Germans I would fly CAP on vRundstedt and get those two FTR3 to add another 7 ground support, making the defense 20. I don't think the Soviets can get a high odds attack on vRundstedt at that point, with rivers in place...

EDIT: Just looking: it is going to be a 4-1 in that case (84 - 20)... What do you think: gamble or no gamble? I say: no...

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I think I wouldn't invade this impulse. However: I agree that the Invasion force should be gathered in the UK. Also: I agree with Steve that units should be put into Murmansk and Archangel. There isn't another CW HQ in the UK I presume? That than means that US units have to be used for this. That Finnish Ski Division is one hex to close to Murmansk to wait another turn.

On the Persian front I agree on the moves Steve proposes.
Also: I like the proposed USSR ground strikes on von Rundstedt. Yes, they are risky, but if the Germans don't use the FTR for CAP, it means at least one of the German FTR3 will have to be used and those TAC factors won't be available for nasty ground strikes or support. This might means another turn with the German Luftwaffe being far behind the front. Nice... Use one of those crappy USSR bombers as front bomber and one of the better ones as the next in line. If the first bomber is killed or your best bomber is cleared, abort.
And imagine what happens if vRundstedt cannot be used for the rest of the turn...

Yes: Mr. von Rundstedt would get some Soviet eggs on his head this impulse...
However: killing him is unfortunately not an option, even with the O-Chit. The moment the Russians crack that chit on Koniev, as the Germans I would fly CAP on vRundstedt and get those two FTR3 to add another 7 ground support, making the defense 20. I don't think the Soviets can get a high odds attack on vRundstedt at that point, with rivers in place...

Yesterday I was certain I'd figured out how to get one of the American MIL to Murmansk, but I've been trying to figure it out, and I don't know if I can. I know I can get Eisenhower into Archangel, and I could get a Division into Murmansk this turn, and that should hold it against the Ski troop until next turn.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

I've got a series of 4 images to show. The first one is a degraded full-front shot of what the Soviets face. I'll talk about individual items in the next three shots.

Things could be better, things could be worse.

Given the tremendous numerical advantage of the Germans at this point, I think it would be a waste of resources to try anything even hinting as a counterattack. For instance, I would not try any ground strikes here. The air units used would be overrun before the turn is over. I don't like ground strikes very much when the units involved have 2-3 tactical. It is just too iffy. Yes, having Rundstedt disorganized would be wonderful, but the Germans have 2 more HQ's in the south and 2 in the north. The difference between 4 & 5 HQ's isn't all that great. Instead I would keep the air units available. I suspect that there will ample opportunities to ground strike Germans HQ's in future impulses.

[I do remember that I just recommended a ground strike in Persia[:)]. But there the Axis have only 1 mobile HQ, which is also one of their best attacking units. And it can be used to reorganize enough forces to continue the offensive there. The benefits are enormous for disorganizing Guderian.]

Rail the AA to Moscow. Rail Timoshenko to Rostov.

Move the Kharkov Mil NE and east. He might survive another impulse or 2.

Move Koniev to Voronezh.

The 8-5 Mech and 7-6 MECH move east 4 hexes and then SE 1 and 2 hexes.

The 5-6 MECH and 7-6 armor move to the hex due west of Voronezh. They are joined there by the 2-6 MECH.

The 5-4 Siberian and his friend the 6-4 Inf move SE and then east 3 hexes. They are joined by the 2-5 MECH.

The 6-4 Siberian and his friend the 7-5 MECH move to the hex NW of Ryazan.

The 2 units next to Moscow move into Moscow. The 4-3 stays where he is in Yaroslavl.

There are a lot of air units that need to rebase. The one in Moscow can probably wait another impulse.

The Soviet line is in front of the Don - not ideal. But the Germans will have trouble attacking those stacks which have 3 units in them.

The gamble last turn for the Soviets mostly worked. There are 2 about-to-be dead units next to Gomel, plus the 5-2 and 5-3 that died. If the Russians had fled last impulse, the losses would have been worst (an additional MECH corps and Div in the south).

Moscow has 3 units = 15 factors as a hero city. Rostov has 3 units = 15 factors as a hero city. That is about as much as the Russians can spare at this time. The threat to Kerch has abated for the moment and there are now a couple of units that can be deployed to help defend the Caucasus if things take a turn for the worse (pun intended). Almost all of the remaining units retreating towards the Urals can move 4 or more. Let's see what the Germans do and how the die rolls go.[8|]

Besides the 2 lost units next to Gomel, there is only 1 sacrificial lamb for the Germans this time. The Stukas have nothing serious to ground strike.

[Centuur]

Most of those moves, I agree with Steve. I'm not happy with disorganising Timoshenko in the frontlines, so I would suggest to move the Sverdlovsk MIL into Rostov and to railmove Timoshenko out of the action into the Caucasus. Why put an HQ in a hero city, when there is a MIL you can use for this?
Koniev can do without the Sverdlovsk MIL, I think.

Timoshenko than lives to fight another day...

[composer99]

What clinches it as a no for using the o-chit for me are these:
1- USSR doesn't have the ARM to call a blitz.
2- USSR can't prevent an encirclement from the north if it stays and fights for the one imulse it uses the chit

I agree with Centuur: Timoshenko should be railed away to live & fight another day.

For my part, I think the AA can walk to Voronezh and another factory can be railed instead.

Also, German HQs von Leeb and von Bock are both 2 impulses behind the main line if they walk so disorganizing Rundstet slows the German advance this turn by 1-2 . Also, the Stuka in that hex is the last organized German bomber in this sector. So disorganizing Rundstet, especially if the groundstrike also hits the Stuka, means that if the Germans want to reorganize their airforce they are at the end of their supply line about when they reach Voronezh (although they can always move out of supply).

Most of the USSR planes involved can rebase to Krasnodar, where they are not at significant risk of being overrun this turn.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Most of those moves, I agree with Steve. I'm not happy with disorganising Timoshenko in the frontlines, so I would suggest to move the Sverdlovsk MIL into Rostov and to railmove Timoshenko out of the action into the Caucasus. Why put an HQ in a hero city, when there is a MIL you can use for this?
Koniev can do without the Sverdlovsk MIL, I think.

Timoshenko than lives to fight another day...

I also disagree with railing Timoshenko to Rostov, but for a different reason. The Rostov MIL will be back again next turn, and the current 10 factors double to 20 in Rostov, which is not going to make it a high priority for the Germans now. If Rostov can't move a unit out of it before the turn ends (which is probably Steve's plan for the defense of the Caucusas), the MIL can't be placed.

However, unless some other plan pops up in the next little while, I'll do it as Steve plans it, because I think he wants to make room for that MIL and get teh 7-4 Siberian toward Stavropol.

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: composer99

What clinches it as a no for using the o-chit for me are these:
1- USSR doesn't have the ARM to call a blitz.
2- USSR can't prevent an encirclement from the north if it stays and fights for the one imulse it uses the chit

I agree with Centuur: Timoshenko should be railed away to live & fight another day.

For my part, I think the AA can walk to Voronezh and another factory can be railed instead.

Also, German HQs von Leeb and von Bock are both 2 impulses behind the main line if they walk so disorganizing Rundstet slows the German advance this turn by 1-2 . Also, the Stuka in that hex is the last organized German bomber in this sector. So disorganizing Rundstet, especially if the groundstrike also hits the Stuka, means that if the Germans want to reorganize their airforce they are at the end of their supply line about when they reach Voronezh (although they can always move out of supply).

Most of the USSR planes involved can rebase to Krasnodar, where they are not at significant risk of being overrun this turn.

The goal is to get the troops to the Urals. I think that is why Steve is aiming to bolster the Rostov defense with Timoshenko. If I were to make the Ground Strikes, I would rebase to Rostov, not to Krasnodar. It's a much safer place to be, and it has less chance of being attacked this turn than Krasnodar.

I do agree with Steve, that the bombers here should be saved to get better odds later in the turn. As you said, most of the local German air forces are used up now. The Germans don't have so much of a speed advantage that they can easily overtake the Soviets, so any attacks are going to be at mid- to low-odds when they do decide to attack. That can be dropped even more with the help of the bombers. Or, if the Germans can get a solid attack on Moscow in the next impulse, the bombers could turn that into a bad attack instead.

[composer99]

Rostov is at risk of being encircled. If the Germans or Italians have the means to cut overseas supply to Rostov any planes (or HQs) disorganized there might stay that way if they can't trace to oil.

I suppose it's correct not to send all the bombers to hit Rundstet. I would still send one bomber and hope to get lucky, hitting either Rundstet or the Stuka. If the Germans use the AA and don't send a FTR up, so much the better.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: composer99

What clinches it as a no for using the o-chit for me are these:
1- USSR doesn't have the ARM to call a blitz.
2- USSR can't prevent an encirclement from the north if it stays and fights for the one imulse it uses the chit

I agree with Centuur: Timoshenko should be railed away to live & fight another day.

For my part, I think the AA can walk to Voronezh and another factory can be railed instead.

Also, German HQs von Leeb and von Bock are both 2 impulses behind the main line if they walk so disorganizing Rundstet slows the German advance this turn by 1-2 . Also, the Stuka in that hex is the last organized German bomber in this sector. So disorganizing Rundstet, especially if the groundstrike also hits the Stuka, means that if the Germans want to reorganize their airforce they are at the end of their supply line about when they reach Voronezh (although they can always move out of supply).

Most of the USSR planes involved can rebase to Krasnodar, where they are not at significant risk of being overrun this turn.

If Rundstedt is disorganized (a very iffy result), the HQ in the Crimea can move north and put all the units in the south in supply. The second HQ can move into Kiev to supply the center. The 2 HQ's in the north can supply the north. At this point the Germans are not out running their supply. Maybe in a couple more impulses if the Russians keep retreating 4 hexes per turn. I still recommend no ground strikes here. If the USSR air force is all used up, then the Germans will be able to calculate attacks accurately. They will also be able to use their fighters for ground strikes/support since they won't have to worry about protecting anyone any more.

We want more strength in Rostov. 15 doubled by the swamp is 30 which should be able to hold for quite a while. While Yeremenko is an HQ, he is a poor HQ, with legs too short to run away. If we rail him to the Urals, how far east should he go? I would rather have 5 more factors in Rostov - which is crucial for holding the Caucasus.

Yes, getting another factory out would be nice. How about moving the 2-6 MECH to Moscow (I want a third unit there) and the 2-3 AA to where the 2 Inf are holding the line in front of the Don? Then the 2-5 MECH can stay with the units with which he is currently stacked. This leaves the stacks about the same and doesn't use up a rail move.

[Peter, the Mil would be better but it is disorganized - it rail moved last turn.]

[Red Prince]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: composer99

What clinches it as a no for using the o-chit for me are these:
1- USSR doesn't have the ARM to call a blitz.
2- USSR can't prevent an encirclement from the north if it stays and fights for the one imulse it uses the chit

I agree with Centuur: Timoshenko should be railed away to live & fight another day.

For my part, I think the AA can walk to Voronezh and another factory can be railed instead.

Also, German HQs von Leeb and von Bock are both 2 impulses behind the main line if they walk so disorganizing Rundstet slows the German advance this turn by 1-2 . Also, the Stuka in that hex is the last organized German bomber in this sector. So disorganizing Rundstet, especially if the groundstrike also hits the Stuka, means that if the Germans want to reorganize their airforce they are at the end of their supply line about when they reach Voronezh (although they can always move out of supply).

Most of the USSR planes involved can rebase to Krasnodar, where they are not at significant risk of being overrun this turn.

If Rundstedt is disorganized (a very iffy result), the HQ in the Crimea can move north and put all the units in the south in supply. The second HQ can move into Kiev to supply the center. The 2 HQ's in the north can supply the north. At this point the Germans are not out running their supply. Maybe in a couple more impulses if the Russians keep retreating 4 hexes per turn. I still recommend no ground strikes here. If the USSR air force is all used up, then the Germans will be able to calculate attacks accurately. They will also be able to use their fighters for ground strikes/support since they won't have to worry about protecting anyone any more.

We want more strength in Rostov. 15 doubled by the swamp is 30 which should be able to hold for quite a while. While Yeremenko is an HQ, he is a poor HQ, with legs too short to run away. If we rail him to the Urals, how far east should he go? I would rather have 5 more factors in Rostov - which is crucial for holding the Caucasus.

Yes, getting another factory out would be nice. How about moving the 2-6 MECH to Moscow (I want a third unit there) and the 2-3 AA to where the 2 Inf are holding the line in front of the Don? Then the 2-5 MECH can stay with the units with which he is currently stacked. This leaves the stacks about the same and doesn't use up a rail move.

[Peter, the Mil would be better but it is disorganized - it rail moved last turn.]

I'll try to set this alternate up shortly so you can see what it looks like.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Rostov is at risk of being encircled. If the Germans or Italians have the means to cut overseas supply to Rostov any planes (or HQs) disorganized there might stay that way if they can't trace to oil.

I suppose it's correct not to send all the bombers to hit Rundstet. I would still send one bomber and hope to get lucky, hitting either Rundstet or the Stuka. If the Germans use the AA and don't send a FTR up, so much the better.

That is a concern - something I hadn't thought of. Still, I guess I just don't like Yeremenko on defense. He always has to be worried about.

Actually, I am thinking about maybe using Koniev to reorganize units if the Germans have a successful attack in front the Don. Then I would use the O-chit to reorganize all the HQ's at the start of the next impulse.[X(] Listen closely and you will hear shrieks of outrage from all the offensive-minded players.[:D] I would DEFEND Russia with everything available. Dreams of counter-offensives are just that: dreams.

[composer99]

Yes, getting another factory out would be nice. How about moving the 2-6 MECH to Moscow (I want a third unit there) and the 2-3 AA to where the 2 Inf are holding the line in front of the Don? Then the 2-5 MECH can stay with the units with which he is currently stacked. This leaves the stacks about the same and doesn't use up a rail move.

That seems reasonable. The hex has 15 factors vs blitz units which could probably be attacked at 3:1 if the Germans put three hexes against it, and no favourable DRMs. And the Germans can't encircle them so they can keep running.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: composer99

Rostov is at risk of being encircled. If the Germans or Italians have the means to cut overseas supply to Rostov any planes (or HQs) disorganized there might stay that way if they can't trace to oil.

I suppose it's correct not to send all the bombers to hit Rundstet. I would still send one bomber and hope to get lucky, hitting either Rundstet or the Stuka. If the Germans use the AA and don't send a FTR up, so much the better.

That is a concern - something I hadn't thought of. Still, I guess I just don't like Yeremenko on defense. He always has to be worried about.

Actually, I am thinking about maybe using Koniev to reorganize units if the Germans have a successful attack in front the Don. Then I would use the O-chit to reorganize all the HQ's at the start of the next impulse.[X(] Listen closely and you will hear shrieks of outrage from all the offensive-minded players.[:D] I would DEFEND Russia with everything available. Dreams of counter-offensives are just that: dreams.

I think I'll agree with this. Yeremenko is already disorganised, Timoshenko will get disorganised. Not moving another unit into Rostov is dangerous, because of the position Yeremenko is in (I really hate disorganised HQ's in the frontlines with enemy units advancing. He also is threathened by the Germans. If they surround him...). If Zhukov reorganises the planes which are going to ground strike Guderian and finally Koniev is going to reorganise units too, using the offensive chit isn't bad at all. Sure, it is usually better to keep holding unto the offensive chit, but things are looking so bad here, I would prefer all HQ's alive and kicking again halfway of this turn. However: we can still wait another impulse for making this decision.
Keeping the chit for good times in the future which might or might not arrive isn't going to help in this situation.

[Red Prince]

Okay, RN supporters, we finally have a winner!

In the Arabian Sea, the battle was as bloody as you can possibly imagine. The first round was a brilliant success for the Allied Admirals in the Stormy sea zone. They had 9 Surprise Points to spend, and used them all to select 3 enemy targets to try to destroy . . . Class-4 CVs! [:)] They only killed off 1 of the 3, but that was fine. One dead and two damaged big CVs. In this case, the Akagi went down with 2 CVP also, so that's a total value of 10 BP right there (5 for the CV, 1 for CVP, and 2 for Pilots).

The 2nd through 4th rounds of combat were just as brutal, with every search roll (of those 6) coming in at a 1 or a 2 . . . and in the 5th round, both rolled a '7' so that they finally couldn't see the enemy here. The victory was expensive for the CW and USA, but I think it was worth it. The Allies can afford the losses much more than Japan can afford them.

Totals:
Allies lost 2 x CA, 8 x CL
Japan lost 1 x CV, 1 x CVP-0, 1 x CVP-1, 2 x Pilot, 2 x CA, 2 x CL (5 ships)

Damaged Japanese ships: 2 x CV, 5 x CA
Damaged Allied ships: 2 x CA

These numbers are as close as I can figure it. My note taking works for my purposes, but is a little confusing to add up at times.

[Red Prince]

More blood on the ground . . .

There was an opportunity to nail Dusseldorf with a Strategic Bombing raid that would have had a good chance to destroy 2 Production Points, but it failed semi-miserably. The CW, feeling all aglow with the punishment they gave the Japanese, lost a very nice bomber and its Pilot, while shooting down the enemy.
----
Please don't tell me it was a stupid thing to do. It may have been, but I did have my reasons for this attack. They may have been bad reasons, but I had them. Now that the CW is starting to gain FTR superiority (purely by random picks of the fighters built), I expected to be able to use up some German FTR cover and have the bomber aborted at worst. There was only a 1 in 5 chance that the bomber would be shot down, and just a 1 in 10 chance that the Pilot would be killed, too.

[composer99]

Hopefully the Japanese fleet commander went down with his flag in one of the CVs after that disgrace. [:)]