Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

[Mike Solli]

Ok, it turns out that my notes weren't all that bad. I spent a couple hours looking at everything, did a few things and sent it off to Ted.

Ted and I have had many discussions about using this (or any of the previous) betas. We're worried that something may screw up the game and we don't want to have to start over. We know that we're missing out on a lot but we'd rather wait until it's official before using it.

Ok, here's a brief update to get this up to date...

[Lowpe]

In my game we upgraded from stock to the beta with absolutely no problem....enhanced the game wonderfully. FWIW.

[Mike Solli]

11-13 Nov 42

SE Fleet: 30 J to 20 A fighters, all over my bases so, fortunately, my losses were low.

Burma: Battering Akyab (still isolated by land, air and sea) and Cox's Bazaar, with a smattering of damage to Chittagong.

xAKL Wollongbar sank on 28 Dec 41 (Whoopee!)

Ki-43-IIb accelerated to 2/43
A6M5b accelerated to 3/44

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
I just got an email from Ted. We've decided to stick with the last official patch. We'll switch to the beta when it becomes official.

You've been gone a while and this has been discussed in some detail some months back. Google search for the thread, a couple of the devs posted to provide some closure. Here's my synopsis of those discussions.

WitpAE is Henderson's game. Matrix is the distributor, but has no say over content. Of course, Matrix isn't even Matrix anymore, its Slytherine.

For economic reasons, it is not likely that Matrix will ever issue another release. There are significant production costs involved and there is no return on those expenses.

Michael's releases are called "Beta's" for contractual reasons between Henderson and Slytherin; they are, however, officially blessed Henderson updates. There is still an active dev team lurking in the shadows with whom Michael consults with regularly. The "betas" are as official as they will ever get. He only updates the exe, and does so about every 6 weeks or so now. There isn't likely to ever be any future db updates. Andy Mac did an "unofficial" (Henderson approved, but not Matrix issued) one about 18 months back (maybe 24?), I think that's it. EDIT: JWE just issued an "unofficial" fix for Ramree Island and Calcutta about 2 months back. Forgot about that those. Significant gameplay fixes (river crossing/hex type/hex side accessibility issues resolved in the pwhexe)

The number of bug fixes is legion. Some are minor covering rare circumstances, others are MAJOR that affect most games.
The interface improvements are immense. Particularly to the Industry screen and some of the summary screens.
The enhancements to gameplay are remarkable.

Bottom line: Playing with the last Matrix release is like playing with WitP; it works, but given the amount of time you are going to invest why would you not upgrade to WitpAE if you have it?

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

The number of bug fixes is legion. Some are minor covering rare circumstances, others are MAJOR that affect most games.
The interface improvements are immense. Particularly to the Industry screen and some of the summary screens.
The enhancements to gameplay are remarkable.

Bottom line: Playing with the last Matrix release is like playing with WitP; it works, but given the amount of time you are going to invest why would you not upgrade to WitpAE if you have it?

+12.

[Dante Fierro]

Welcome back Mike! You're like one of those soldiers they discovered 20 years later on a little known island who still thought the war was going on. I look forward to you continuing your AAR, although I forgot everything so will have to reread it all over again. But hey, should be fun. [:D]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Ted and I have had many discussions about using this (or any of the previous) betas. We're worried that something may screw up the game and we don't want to have to start over. We know that we're missing out on a lot but we'd rather wait until it's official before using it.

This has been my logic in playing with only the latest official patch myself and avoiding the betas, Mike. Other opinions vary, but I don't like the idea of having to relearn the game's minutiae that get changed, unchanged, re-changed and then re-unchanged with the different betas.

Analogizing the playing of the latest WiTP:AE official patch with the original game WiTP is an absurdity. The game is very good and very playable with the latest official patch. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


Analogizing the playing of the latest WiTP:AE official patch with the original game WiTP is an absurdity.

Mike, sorry to hijack.

CB: I'm sorry, it isn't absurd. With over 200 bugs fixes and enhancements to the interface, most developer studios would have called it a significant version update and re-released, like WitpAE Ironman or something like that. Henderson didn't, bless them.

You're not playing it by your own admission, so the fact that you offer an opinion is rather interesting. Everyone who does play Henderson's latest release says it is great and does not go back. Haven't seen a single dissenter in almost 2 years (that was the last time Michael had to back out a patch). Not one single post about a game collapsing when that ocurred. The only people not using the latest Henderson release are those who for reasons of their own decide not to try it. That's fine, it is every players decision. But you can no longer 'hide' behind the "official" release excuse. Henderson took that one away. You are playing with a +2 year old official release. Everyone else is playing with the latest official release. That's from the dev's. 3 of them were in that discussion and they were, thankfully, very clear.

Sorry to be blunt, but the "official release" charade is way old.

Now to real heart of the matter. When you are playing with an obsolete version, which you are unless you are playing with 1123x10, if you have a problem you do realize that Henderson is the support not Slytherine? So if your LCU fragments get mixed up during loading/unloading you are going to have to go to Michael to get your save game fixed when that issue was corrected last year in rv1120a. Is that something you are comfortable doing? I'm not.


Some peope like getting the "torpedo failed" message when it actually missed (corrected in 1120a). Some people don't worry about upgrading when all they want to do is to add replacements (1120e). Some people don't care that you can select the wrong ship or be unable to select the ship you want if there are too many in a port (1123e) <that only affexts allies so no one here cares about that one anyway, but Ted might>. Who care if when you choose to build barges in one location you can cause other to disappear? (1123f) No one really needs to see in the LCU detail screen if you are crossing a river or going into an enemy held hex (1123g)

That's just 6 random items out of the +200 ... absurd. Totally.

Rant over. Sorry for the hijack.

[rustysi]

He's baaaack. Yes![:D]

[Lokasenna]

Not to mention that, if you make backups of your save on the turn you upgrade to the latest version, it's really not possible to bork your stuff. You have to really try to screw it up to break it.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Ted and I have had many discussions about using this (or any of the previous) betas. We're worried that something may screw up the game and we don't want to have to start over. We know that we're missing out on a lot but we'd rather wait until it's official before using it.

This has been my logic in playing with only the latest official patch myself and avoiding the betas, Mike. Other opinions vary, but I don't like the idea of having to relearn the game's minutiae that get changed, unchanged, re-changed and then re-unchanged with the different betas.

Analogizing the playing of the latest WiTP:AE official patch with the original game WiTP is an absurdity. The game is very good and very playable with the latest official patch. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Paxmondo:

Generally speaking, when I quote someone else's text or address them by name, I'm addressing my comments in their AAR to them. Not to you. You and Lokassena made your opinions known. I was making my opinion known and supporting Mike and his partner's decision. Stop trying to shout me down. I'll have my opinion heard, particularly when it's a supportive one of the thread owner.

Mike is coming off a year + hiatus with the game. By his own admission, he's had little game time in the last couple years. He feels uncomfortable restarting his suspended game AND ALSO learning every nuance associated with the series of betas that have emerged in the interim. I get that. You should also respect his decision.

Yes, this argument is played and old. Yes, we've locked horns on this issue before. But you need to accept the fact that other people have different motives and issues with constant upgrades than you do. Your 'one size fits all' approach simply doesn't hold water. A forum regular who is here on a daily basis has a different comfort level with someone just getting back into the game. Rather than badger him with rants about how wrong his decision was (and how wrong anyone is that might have issues with constant upgrades), I would rather support his decision.

Your analogy was and is absurd. Playing WiTP:AE with the latest beta may be a different gameplay experience than the latest official patch. It may-in your eyes-be better in all ways. But it's not like playing WiTP. Iterative improvements, even taken cumulatively, are iterative improvements. Not a different game. Polemics notwithstanding, it's not a different game because....it's not a different game. Do the beta patches have a vastly different map than WiTP:AE with the latest official patch? Hex scale? Basic fleet functions? Do they still use resources / HI / fuel / supply and oil?

I'll not respond to your underlined superlatives and universal platitudes here. If you want to discuss this offline, I'm marginally interested. I suggest we leave it lie here in Mike's AAR, however.

[witpqs]

...and, you can use a Beta that is a certain number of days old if you are worried about something catastrophic being discovered during the first 'whatever' - 2 weeks, 1 month, 6 months, etc.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


I suggest we leave it lie here in Mike's AAR, however.

Agreed.

Apologies for any personal affront, it was not my direct intention ...

[Dante Fierro]

I've been gone over a year myself. From what it looks like to me, the "beta" work is solid and addresses quite a few problems present in the now 2 year old "official" version. Speaking for myself, the question wouldn't be "Why?" use the "beta" - but rather, "Why wouldn't I?"

I'm with Pax on this one - although I agree his opinion may not have been worded in the best way (but neither was Chicken's response). But really - why wouldn't I use beta? Again, it isn't like a B-grade hack by some amateur. The work is solid and it fixes a lot.

[Mundy]

Good to see you back, Mike.

I've always enjoyed your perspective on IJ economy.

Thanks for your service.

Ed-

[Mike Solli]

Wow, I didn't mean for this to flair up. I'm not going to comment on stock vs. the beta. We may opt for the beta in the future, but it'll be unanimous. As long as one of us doesn't want it, we'll stick with stock.

Anyway, thanks for all the great comments. I appreciate it. I had a few minutes to write up some very vague comments on all the old turns. Back to the war, gents.

[Mike Solli]

14-16 Nov 42

Kills: 3 xAK, 6 MTB
Losses: RO-63

Air Losses: 19 Allied to 7 Japanese

Reinforcements:
82 IFC – 9 Dinah, 51 AD, training
CHa-46
Shimikaze
RO-102
xAK Shiraneasan Maru – Std-A, will convert to a TK

Ki-44-IIc R&D advanced to 1/44

Ted is using 100+ 4E and 100+ 2E bombers to obliterate Milne Bay. Not much there other than a couple of small units. He can bomb that place to his heart’s content.

He sent a squadron of P-38s against Gasmata and found about 3 dozen Japanese fighters. That was where most of the Allied air losses came from.

I’m sending 100+ 2E bombers against Akyab, Cox’s Bazaar and Chittagong. He’s hiding his fighters to build up enough to put up a fight there. They’ll show up soon.

[Mike Solli]

17-19 Nov 42

Kills: xAK, Northampton (caught near Cooktown and hit 2 separate days by RO class subs), TK (confirmed from 11 Oct 42)

Losses: xAK

Air: 6 Japanese to 59(!) Allied planes: Tojos caught 32 Vengeance bombers unescorted over Kalemyo and shot down 28 of them. Also, 11x P-40s were shot down by Tojos over Mandalay. Very nice few days in the air. Unfortunately, it won’t last.

Reinforcements:
xAK Batopha Maru – Std-C, convert to TK
Kure 6 SNLF – SE Fleet
Yokosuka 6 SNLF – SE Fleet

[Mike Solli]

20-22 Nov 42

Kills: xAK, 2x AM (at Adak), DD Henley (Canberra), xAKL

Losses: SSX at PM

Air: 2 Japanese to 3 Allied aircraft. Bad weather and Ted licking his wounds prevented most air contact.

A6M5b R&D advanced to 2/44.

Aleutians: I hold Adak and west and Ted holds all east. I have over a dozen subs in the area and Ted is bombing Adak from Unmak Is. I believe he is going to invade, but then, I’ve believed that for almost a month now. I have KB (Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Ruyjo, Shokaku & Zuikaku) ~10 or so hexes to the west of Adak. Ted doesn’t know they’re there. They are not flying any offensive missions, just ASW and CAP. If an invasion fleet shows up, I’ll pound them. Adak is very low on supply and every time I try to sneak an xAKL in, she is sunk. I am flying supply in with 9x Emilies. Not much but it’s keeping the place alive. We’ll see what happens.

I bought the 8 Division from Kwantung Army. It is destined for Burma. I’ve started moving transport to pick them up. They’ll start loading by the end of November.

[Mike Solli]

23-25 Nov 42

Ted got even in the air.

Air: 10 Allied to 21 Japanese planes. Unescorted Nells were caught over Darwin and 12 were shot down. The rest of the losses were scattered around the world.

Kills: AM at Milne Bay. She had been sitting there for a few days so I snuck in a few DDs that quickly sank her and skedaddled. TK off San Diego, xAK, AMc confirmed sunk from 25 Jul 42.

No Japanese ship losses.

Reinforcements:
CVE Chuyo – going to take on a load of Vals and will escort big TK convoys from Singapore.
6 Air Division – 4 Air Army – SE Fleet
25 JAAF AF Bn – Southern Army
11 JAAF AF Bn – Southern Army

I finally used up the Kawasaki (early) engines on the Mary and shut off Mary production for good. The Mary is a nice, short range ASW weapon that I’ll use probably for the rest of the war in choke points. Kamikazes later too.