AE Air Issues and Air OOB Issues [OUTDATED]

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: TheElf




Yes they are. The classes are on a 12 month curriculum. When one graduates a new one takes it's place in "ground school".

So basically, there is a limit to the number of "pilots" you can remove from the training school, right? Also, can you throw out a couple of numbers as to the class sizes? Will the new classes increase in size as the war continues and the Japanese realize their pilot shortage?

Later in the war, the shortage was due to lack of fuel for training and lack of experienced instructors. The first can be modelled as a supply draw; the second can be modelled by rotation home of experienced pilots. If they don't survive to be rotated, you don't have the instructors.

Does this mean that Japanese pilots will now rotate home to be instructors? Will the players be able to rotate pilots home to be instructors?

[Brady]

The question might be in game terms why would you want to, or care to, do you get some in game benifift from doing so?

[el cid again]

It seems to me that if training really lasted 12 months, the quality would not be as bad as when it only lasted two months - as IRL.

On the other hand, how can you get any flight time at all if there is no fuel to fly trainers?

Late in the war some pilots went into action with values like 15 flight hours. It should not require a year to do that.
But the quality should be awful. But not impossibly so: I have an article about a PLAAF ace of the Korean war who went into action with under 50 flight hours total - and whose unit found it almost impossible even to stay in the part of the sky they were supposed to be in. Still - he shot down every US pilot he encountered - and we confirm most of his kills. So rarely a pilot may do well in spite of such awful training.

[spence]

Elf -

The USN was prohibited (by interservice agreement) from possessing land based bombers (except seaplanes) prior to the war. Starting around the end of 1942 the USN started operating squadrons of patrol bombers of various types. Though much of the equipment was in pretty much the same as the USAAF equipment the training was quite different. The USN/USMC multi-engine bombers operated and attacked at low levels and were quite proficient at attacking ships/submarines. Basically though they did not make mass attacks on enemy fleets (though that may be a result of the IJN not presenting such targets). Previously you mentioned that low level naval attack proficiency would be mostly restricted to the USAAF 5th AF. I should hope that the USN 2E/4E bombers would also be given their due.

Is the PB4Y-2 Privateer included now? Is the BAT radar guided bomb? If so is it useable against land targets as well (apparently the RAF used it against bridges on the Burma railway somewhat successfully)?

[Terminus]

The RAF didn't use the BAT. You're thinking of the Razon/Mezon bombs...

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Brady

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

How about limiting IJA aviation support to support only IJA a/c, IJN aviation support to support only IJN a/c?

That would be cool, could we extend this to Not alowing FAA Units to be suported on US CV's and vice versa, and Comenwealth Units to only be suported by Comenwealth unit's?

It almost sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

Brady, You are hired for the purposes of speculating answers to questions in this thread for me...

[TulliusDetritus]

Here is my question: will the planes have their historical operational range? I didn't play stock for a very long time, but if I recall correctly, the operational ranges were too short. I am thinking about El Cid Again's work (in theory we have the right operational range in RHS). Anyway, in case the answer is negative, these ranges can be changed via the editor, right?

EDITED: Thanks in advance, sorry.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: timtom
Gentlemen, my apologies for being very fashionably late for the party.

Well, fashionably late is better than unfashionably late!

Yes, Timtom is my OoB Maven and you will all be pleased to hear that he has been a pain in my @$$ for all the right reasons. I don't think a more comprehensive, accurate, and yet flexible OoB has been constructed for ANY game ANYwhere...

We will all soon benefit from his long hours of painstaking research and groveling(to me[;)]) for more leeway and features in the editor. For all that I couldn't have asked for a more thorough , trustworthy, and stalwart OoBattler.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

OTS. Kamikazes have not been touched. Read some AAR's later in the war, they work. One thing we did that may help is alter AAA so that during attacks only AAA in the quadrant being approached may fire.

Hello Elf. Thanks for all your answers so far.

Watching PzB's AAR, I think we noticed that slow ships are definitely chosen as a much more valid kamikaze target, with not much consideration for size. PT-boats and LCI may get targeted instead of an Essex simply because they are slower than the Essex (while there's hardly something bigger than a CV to notice and to target from the air, especially instead of a barge ^^)

Did the team check this a little bit? I admit kamikazes do work (well they hit stuff) but we definitely need both this to be looked after (maybe there is something like a value to increase for the kamikazes to pay more attention to sheer size) and, of course, the land-attack kamikaze bug, that is not as uncommon as we'd like it to be... This land-attack mass suicide may prove to be quite problematic is Japan is really meant to lack pilots!

Thanks in advance!

I hear what you are saying Fishbed, but given that AE players will be starting from scratch, we priortized any adjustment to the Kamikaze routine to a later patch. AS it will likely not require any OoB work, and thus no restarts, we could code any changes at a later date. Bigger fish...

[Halsey]

Excellent work gentlemen
You too Terminus. [;)]

Sorry, but I can't help but notice three missing training options for pilots.
1. Night Bomber Training Strategic
2. Night Bomber Training Tactical
3. Night Fighter Training

Or is this regulated with the day/night toggle?

Could be missing a fourth?
4. Daylight Bomber Training Strategic

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

ORIGINAL: TheElf

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Also can you change weapon loadouts a la BTR?

No.

Can you list the different areas of pilot experience?

• Air attack
• Air defensive
• Naval bombing
• Naval torpedo
• Naval search
• Recon
• ASW
• Transport
• Ground bombing
• Low level naval bombing
• Low level ground bombing
• Strafe

So which of those experience levels are most important for a Kamikazi - Low level naval bombing? <laughter>

And how do I train up my kamikazi squadrons... [:D][:D][:D]

Sorry - it must be past my bed time... <more laughter>

Low level Naval Bombing.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: TheElf

- The pilot pools needs to be separate for General Naval Aviation and Trained Carrier Pilots.

included

Did I just read this right? There is now a difference between IJNAF carrier trained pilots and IJNAF non-carrier trained pilots?

No there is no difference. We currently do not track individual pilots Carrier Quals.

It is tracked in the units.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

It seems to me that if training really lasted 12 months, the quality would not be as bad as when it only lasted two months - as IRL.

On the other hand, how can you get any flight time at all if there is no fuel to fly trainers?

Late in the war some pilots went into action with values like 15 flight hours. It should not require a year to do that.
But the quality should be awful. But not impossibly so: I have an article about a PLAAF ace of the Korean war who went into action with under 50 flight hours total - and whose unit found it almost impossible even to stay in the part of the sky they were supposed to be in. Still - he shot down every US pilot he encountered - and we confirm most of his kills. So rarely a pilot may do well in spite of such awful training.

Is there a question in here?

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: TheElf

when in the TrainING pool, pilots are un-named, and un-designated. Generic if you will. Once they area drawn to an operational unit they are designated as TB, DB, FF, MB, REC etc. Once this happens they remain designated as a "Type" of pilot. And when they are moved from pool to pool they are in seperate pools based on their type.

The one exception is where they are in the Training Command pool as "instructors". Here is where they affect the output of "students" in the TrainING pool.

Very interesting. Once a pilot is designated by being assigned to an operational unit and then transferred to a pool, does the player know how many of each type of pilot is in that pool. Example: There are 20 pilots in the reserve pool. Will the player know that 12 are fighter, 3 TB, etc.?

How does a pilot become an instructor?

The player does not know how many of which type is in the pool.

Pilots become instructors when a player selects him and sends him to the Training Command pool.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Does this mean that Japanese pilots will now rotate home to be instructors? Will the players be able to rotate pilots home to be instructors?

Not Automatically. Players will be given the option. IJN and IJAAF did rotate veterans back to the HIs to train new pilots but not approaching anywhere near the regularity or the numbers the US did.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Brady

The question might be in game terms why would you want to, or care to, do you get some in game benifift from doing so?

In my game I will want to.

1. I want to preserve select High skill pilots
2. I want to build a buffer between my Training Schools and the fleet
3. More and higher EXP veterans in the Training Command pool will positively affect the EXP levels of newly trained replacements, and can ever so slightly increase production.
4. The Japanese contrary to popular opinion and however belatedly DID increase the intake of pilot training candidates through out the war. We intend to try and match this as accurately as possible. If game conditions (read into this how you will) allow it the IJ player will be able to fully train pilots after the historical decline of the aviation pipeline began

This is a feature, and is forces the Allied player the ATTRITE japanese planes on a large scale. If he does not do this he is making his own bed for 43', 44' and 45'...better get your favorite pillow.

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Here is my question: will the planes have their historical operational range? I didn't play stock for a very long time, but if I recall correctly, the operational ranges were too short. I am thinking about El Cid Again's work (in theory we have the right operational range in RHS). Anyway, in case the answer is negative, these ranges can be changed via the editor, right?

EDITED: Thanks in advance, sorry.

all planes are being reviewed for accuracy. Timtom, Chez and BigB can address specifics, but this is a work in progress so don't expect to see spreadsheets...[;)]

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Here is my question: will the planes have their historical operational range? I didn't play stock for a very long time, but if I recall correctly, the operational ranges were too short. I am thinking about El Cid Again's work (in theory we have the right operational range in RHS). Anyway, in case the answer is negative, these ranges can be changed via the editor, right?

EDITED: Thanks in advance, sorry.

Yes, they will.

Sorry, Elf, didn't see you there...

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Excellent work gentlemen
You too Terminus. [;)]

Sorry, but I can't help but notice three missing training options for pilots.
1. Night Bomber Training Strategic
2. Night Bomber Training Tactical
3. Night Fighter Training

Or is this regulated with the day/night toggle?

Could be missing a fourth?
4. Daylight Bomber Training Strategic

Toggle.

[Bahnsteig]

quote:
ORIGINAL: Bahnsteig
Will the allied have to pay PP to transfer their heavies to China? Else they can start their bombing campain early 42 and bomb everything to dust till middle 42.

PP = SAIEW. Allied player will have fewer heavies to burn, though.

But it will still be possible for the allied to locate all the heavies to Chunking, Sian, Changsha ... and bomb all resources and industry in the range without giving the japanese a possibility to defend.
The same for Palembang und Kuching early in the war.
It's impossible to cover all bases with at least one fighter squadron.
There must be a reason why this didn't happen in the war. Else the war had been over in middle 43.
Maybe it should only be possible to bomb conquered bases, but not the resources.
As Chinese, British or Dutch, I wouldn't be happy to see all my resoucres get destroyed just because the japanese are using them for some years. This would make big political problems.
Imagine how Stalin would react if the USAAF would bomb japanese occupied Vladivostok to dust.