Map Maker Beta ...

[benpark]

Yeah, I confirmed the name changes with the check box. This is one thing that might need to be looked at by "The Brain".

To repro- Start a new map. Create/select structure in MM. Give a custom name to a building in the MM, build map then check in Scene Editor. See what directory building is saved under, and see if it is selectable by the cursor.

If, in the future we we find we shouldn't use the custom naming maybe the text box should be removed and the custom name auto-created on placement in the MM?

Mraah, you got me excited there about the coding of buildings. I thought I was going to get out of a lot of work!

[Mraah]

Ben,

Ok ... to change the Name of the building you need to "high light" the name ... ie click and hold down the left mouse button to select and drag the full name and change it to a blue background ... then, click the Name button... it should change ... then of course, click the checkmark.

SOrry about the coding confusion ... When I make an AI map with paint , I usually paint a 10x10 box where I roughly want the building ... then I use MM to place it ... then go into SE and tweak the edges.

10x10 might be too much but I find it faster to erase than to draw [:)].

Rob

[Mraah]

Ben,

By the way ... I like your map! Are those actually paved roads or are you using the concrete texture for the look?

I haven't used the Billboards yet ... are those selectable in SE where you can move them around? I like the idea of how you have them as road signs .. To such and such. Helps to orient oneself without having to look at the mini map.

Rob

[benpark]

I tried renaming, but it still doesn't seem to work. I also loaded up a new map, named everything using the "Name" button, and I'm still unable to (by click and Cntrl-left click) move the structures in the scene editor due to the saving convention.

The roads are the "Road01" texture. I needed the closest looking thing to Hungarian hard-top roads. They have a dirt texture at the edges.

What should a "bunker" be coded as in the MM? Hard 1/1?

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: benpark

The roads are the "Road01" texture. I needed the closest looking thing to Hungarian hard-top roads. They have a dirt texture at the edges.

What should a "bunker" be coded as in the MM? Hard 1/1?

Yes a bunker should be Hard / 1 / 1

[Stridor]

If anyone else wants to be part of the beta team for the MM please pm me and I will send you the links needed. I really am looking at people who can use the program and provide feedback rather than those that just want to play around.

Regards

S

[Stridor]

Ben,

I have no trouble with selecting and moving around a structure in the SE once it has been placed in the MM.

Place the mouse cursor over the structure.

Double click to select

Now use the Ctlr+drag trick to place.

As a tip:
When a structure has been selected by double clicking on the main SE map you will see that the structure is also selected in the main list box to the left. However the selection color is a light gray color which gets easily lost in the clutter of the list. In order to "see" it better press the tab key. This will highlight it better in the list for you to see.

Regards

S.

Edit: It makes no difference if you name a structure or texture or autoname it. Autoname is for easy of use, but sometimes you want a meaningful name which is why the option was left in place.

[benpark]

Odd, that's the way I was doing it. Let me try again in an hour or so. If I still can't get it to work, I'll post up the map.

Stridor just PM'ed me back saying it was a-OK to add his building pack. I should have some models soon to add as well. I could do it if it's just XML additions to save you the time.

[benpark]

Ok, just tested again and I still cannot click select objects in the scene editor from a map made in the MM. I'll attach here, it's an incomplete map but it's just what has been done in the MM so it should be a good test.

Load in the scene editor to test. Don't load in the MM first. Try afterward to troubleshoot if necessary.

Note the "Children" directory- the problem seems to be that the models are saved under the directory that we have been using for retaining models in the scene editor, but not showing up in the regular "children" category.

Try to Cntrl-left click on one of the models to move it in the regular SE fashion.

Let me know if it works for you folks. If so, I need to sort something on my end, but I don't think I've been messing around with any file structures...so it would baffle me even more.

[benpark]

Also getting an error when trying to load up a map made with the previous version (screen attached). I tried to load by map name, not sure if this is supported with the way the older version wrote the xml data.



EDIT- I have added custom models to this map, so that may be the culprit.

[Mraah]

Stridor,

I've done a little sculpture work between my shift work ... not much but I haven't had a problem with the tools. When I get off work this morning I'll have another run through the tools.

The only thing I have is just a suggestion ... When sculpting with a brush size of 1 it's hard to tell if a change is made (one click change) because there really isn't much difference in the grey shade when working with 256 shades. Now, I looked to see if the hex value of the color changed and it's about the only indication since it's such a small change it won't increment the Height value (meters).

So, would it be possible to add another scale for the pixel using a value between 0-255 ? I find it easier to see an increase or decrease with whole numbers.

The only problem I have with MM is still the old one I had weeks ago ... When trying to change the M_Gp0 or Gp1 with a new value typed in ... it won't make the change. Again, the eye dropper works fine for making the change but since I can't change it manually I can't get the water level to reset below the map again (ie, back to the starting value which doesn't show the water level at all).

Lastly, I need to test the HIRES mode ... I overlook this everytime.

Rob

[Mraah]

Stridor and Ben,

I noticed a problem with SE that is unrelated to MM.

I've had problems where if you left SE open ALL the time it sometimes doesn't work preoperly.

For instance, if you open SE and open a new map ... then open another map it will ask you if you want to save the old map ... I click no ...then open a new map. Fine and dandy, no problem, until you go and save the current map you're working on ... What it does (sometimes) is save your map with parts of the old map ... I mean parts by some XML entries , like saving your current children with older file nodes from the top of XML.

Anyway, when I run MM I make sure I have SE closed to make sure it open's SE fresh.

Just a thought.
Rob

EDIT NOTE : After it saves this "combine" garble of data it now fails to load again because of errors. I've seen others mention this a long time ago where they made changes in SE and then it wouldn't load again the second time. Again ... it's not MM ... it's an SE thing.

[Mraah]

Stridor,

One more suggestion I forgot ... The ADJUST button.

Do you think adding a directional arrow to the ADJUST button would be helpful to indicate which direction you're currently adjusting? Currently, it's only highlighted to show you the tool is active.

Thanks!

[Stridor]

Ben,

Your Enying Map is beautiful!

1. The reason why your can't select your structures from the SE is because all your map objects have the "has height" option (the H:[] box ticked) selected. This tells the PCK engine that the object is part of the landscape and can be walked or driven on. This setting needs to be true for bridges over water for example but must be set to off for regular objects like houses, woodpiles, phone poles, etc

2. Due to big time changes to the way files were written between the old (0.3b) and new (0.8a) versions of the MM, the new version can't read the old files. I am sorry. You can still use any old heightmaps and AI maps, but you just can't load them directly anymore.

Regards

S.

P.S.

Just to be clear

H:[] = Has Height, use this for anything which an infantry can walk over or a tank drive over. Example bridge over troubled water.
N:[] = Normalize to terrain. Use this for stuff which sits perpendicular to the terrain. Example tractor on a hill
C:[] = Is facing Camera. Use this to make the obect always turn to face the camera. Example low poly brushes

[benpark]

Ah, fantastic. It will help of I re-read the read me...

No problem about the older map. I'm going to redo it. I need to polish up some models for it, anyway. Hopefully those are up to par enough to get added to the database.

Thanks! That map is the start of a long, muddy trudge of pain for a German player vs AI operation WIP. It needs some touch-ups, but the MM has made it easy to do more than one map at a time.

As for the scene editor, minimizing it will do the same thing (or crash it). I just open it to get my stuff done and get the heck outta there.

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: Mraah

Stridor,

I've done a little sculpture work between my shift work ... not much but I haven't had a problem with the tools. When I get off work this morning I'll have another run through the tools.

The only thing I have is just a suggestion ... When sculpting with a brush size of 1 it's hard to tell if a change is made (one click change) because there really isn't much difference in the grey shade when working with 256 shades. Now, I looked to see if the hex value of the color changed and it's about the only indication since it's such a small change it won't increment the Height value (meters).

So, would it be possible to add another scale for the pixel using a value between 0-255 ? I find it easier to see an increase or decrease with whole numbers.

The only problem I have with MM is still the old one I had weeks ago ... When trying to change the M_Gp0 or Gp1 with a new value typed in ... it won't make the change. Again, the eye dropper works fine for making the change but since I can't change it manually I can't get the water level to reset below the map again (ie, back to the starting value which doesn't show the water level at all).

Lastly, I need to test the HIRES mode ... I overlook this everytime.

Rob

Rob it works fine I just tested it. I think you need to play around with the system for a while to get the hang of it.

Do this, set some HM pixels to a grey value of 20 or below with the dig tool (right click with the Adjust tool selected and the draw/dig on the map). Then type 0.0 in the M_Ht0 box and then type 21 in the Gp0 box (you need to click off the box to make the change stick). This means any pixel with grey value of 20 or below will be underwater which it should now show.

Each micro adjust click = 0.5 grey scale change. This was done on purpose so you can sculpt finely (you can just hold the mouse button down and drag to make larger changes, this "simulates" sculpting). Each macro click = 2 grey scale values.

ATM to acticate HIRES mode you need to start the MM with the /HIRES switch. This will give you a 129x129 HM map.

[Stridor]

The SE has numerous problems. I don't have the code for it so can't really comment or make changes. All I can say is that you need to restart it between map loads otherwise it will break as it doesn't seem to reinit itself correctly. That is why when the MM starts it for you automatically at the end of a map build it actually kills any current SE which might be running.

It is not a big deal however, escpecially as MM now does most of your map making duties.

Regards

S.

[Stridor]

ORIGINAL: Mraah


Stridor,

One more suggestion I forgot ... The ADJUST button.

Do you think adding a directional arrow to the ADJUST button would be helpful to indicate which direction you're currently adjusting? Currently, it's only highlighted to show you the tool is active.

Thanks!

Rob

Adjust:

Left button raises terrain
Right button lowers terrain

Filter:

Left button smooths
Right button adds noise

Lock:

Left button locks
Right button unlocks

Level + Erase both only work with the left mouse button

Regards

S.

[Mraah]

ORIGINAL: Stridor
Do this, set some HM pixels to a grey value of 20 or below with the dig tool (right click with the Adjust tool selected and the draw/dig on the map). Then type 0.0 in the M_Ht0 box and then type 21 in the Gp0 box (you need to click off the box to make the change stick). This means any pixel with grey value of 20 or below will be underwater which it should now show.

Ok ... good, a task for me ... From your instructions I feel I was doing the whole process wrong from the start!

Each micro adjust click = 0.5 grey scale change. This was done on purpose so you can sculpt finely (you can just hold the mouse button down and drag to make larger changes, this "simulates" sculpting). Each macro click = 2 grey scale values.

Wow ... 0.5 for a micro change ... explains why I didn't see it. While I'm thinking of it ... What do you think about an option for the user to change these values? ie, make micro 1.0 or macro 3.0, etc. I dunno, just another wild idea.

ATM to acticate HIRES mode you need to start the MM with the /HIRES switch. This will give you a 129x129 HM map.

Yeah, I need to try it ... my MM-1a map is actualy a 1024x1024 height map resized to 65x65 and a 129x129 version. I'm curious about how the 129x129 will compare because the 65x65 looks good by itself without any smoothing applied.

Anyway, the sculpting tools are great ... I recommend using a temporary "contour" map for the first AI map so you can reference the image for sculpting ... then reload the normal AI map for processing.

Rob

[Stridor]

New features which are coming to the next MM release

1. Faster build times, the MM now only builds what it needs to.
2. Undo/Redo system for sculpting mistakes
3. Slightly faster performance
4. Zoom + pan system. Now you can zoom into the map to do micro adjustments to object positioning
5. Zoom object thumbnails. If you are in zoom mode you can see little 2D bitmaps of the map objects this will help alot!
6. Once Ben + Biffa gets back to me I will incorporate all their new objects into the MM.

Here is a SS showing the new zoom in mode with the object thumnails.

Regards

S.