Demo first Impressions

[BigJ62]

Well actually I'm using overide in the nvidia cp with max settings on all params and also max settings in pco. For you I would try lowering AA and note the diff then put it back and try a different setting until you find the one that is causing the problem and focus on that.

Saw your other post so what is the cpu/gpu usage during lag.

[AstroCat]

I think it's expectations here for me. When the game dips into the 20s fps range during playback without even any AA on I guess for me I would expect better performance all things considered.

[Mad Russian]

TBH, I've never checked FPS a single time in the past 2+ years. I have no idea what my FPS rate is at any given time and I could care less.

What I'm looking for is if the game plays smoothly. On my machine it does and I've had everything maxed out since day one. But I have a fairly new machine too.

J2D is the one that can tell you FPS rates because he has a slower machine. I can tell you that we've made specific efforts at making the best possible resource usage for low end machines. I've probably made a dozen maps testing the resources for those on J2D's machine. Just to see what works best and what doesn't.

From about the first 6 months my maps are a blend of the higher res 3D structures and the lower res ones. Wherever I can make a change to use the lower res models and still have the scenario work I do.

We are/have tried to make the scenarios as resource friendly as possible. The map in the demo isn't mine so I can't address what was done with it.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Johnus]

I have an older system with an Nvidia 7600GT card. But even when my FPS dips down into the 20's (the FPS seems to fluctuate from 65 down to 25) I don't really notice anything running in a jerky fashion. Am I just visually challenged?

[AstroCat]

My system is still on the higher end overall and all other games, like the Total War series, CMSF, various FPSs, etc... all run right where they should performance wise. It's not jerky or anything like what 10fps would be like, it's just expectations. Given the graphics of PCO and the 580gtxSSC card I have plus Q9650@3.6Ghz you'd think I'd be able to coast at 30+ fps...

[junk2drive]

ORIGINAL: HintJ

Okay, I'm a slow player, in turn 8 right now, but I think I've played enough to make some serious observations:

The message box and progress bar:

This message box is awesome! I usually keep it off until I've watched the replay from most views. Then I turn it on and expand it all the way. If I click on a particular message, every other message that involves that unit is highlighted. Great idea! I can even scroll back (using the mouse wheel if I want) to the very beginning of the game. This is excellent; I look at all the boldfaced messages and I have a historical log for that particular unit all the way from the very beginning. Wow! Shift-clicking is also a very useful feature--extremely useful.

I think perhaps a smaller font (maybe because I play at 1024x768) and a timestamp could make this feature even better. Perhaps a timestamp is superfluous, but still, the more detail the better.

The blue bar is just as great, especially since we now have the time displayed and the option of rewinding to a specific part of the action. The only suggestion I have is if I press the rewind button, please have the game first pause at the beginning before playing. No big deal, I can just quickly press the Spacebar right after I hit the rewind button.

If you play multiplayer the messages that you and your opponent post to each other also go on the message box and you can scroll back to see what was posted.

[Mad Russian]

So you don't see performance issues? You just think the FPS rate should be higher? I'm trying to understand your issue.

Good Hunting.

MR

[AstroCat]

Oh no... panning the camera around and the animations are definitely not as smooth down near 20fps as they are 40 and up. Like I said before, perhaps my expectations are just too high for the kind of performance I will be getting out PCO. I never played any of the previous versions so this is my first experience with this graphics engine.

[Mad Russian]

I don't know I don't see any difference with or without grass. I get the same kind of smooth performance with PCO that I get with even a FPS shooter like Guild Wars or something like IL2. But I wouldn't even know how to check for FPS on them. It's never been an issue for my machine.

Good Hunting.

MR

[junk2drive]

I'm so use to playing it on Low and Low with less than 10fps that now that I have High and High with 20-30fps it seems great. I also have AA and AF off. Maybe if I saw it on a real nice setup I would realise what I am missing. Heck I just got a wide screen LED a few weeks ago and see how dark the old CRT was.

[diablo1]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

I don't know I don't see any difference with or without grass. I get the same kind of smooth performance with PCO that I get with even a FPS shooter like Guild Wars or something like IL2. But I wouldn't even know how to check for FPS on them. It's never been an issue for my machine.

Good Hunting.

MR

Down near the bottom right hand corner of Guild Wars main player screen is a little dot and it will show your FPS if you scroll your pointer over it and also your ping is shown down there as well. I get 60-72fps with maxed out graphics playing Guild Wars and I get around 29-30fps down to 24fps with PCO maxed out and zoomed in all the way to ground level. Grass off and it's back up to 50-60fps. That's a big hit to FPS with all this GRASS. While the performance at 24-30fps is acceptable there is definitely a difference in the scrolling and movement of the camara as it's more jerky and not what I would call "smooth" at all. Cutting trees down to min also boosts FPS by 14FPS. I like trees though so I leave them on but grass go bye bye every game.

[diablo1]

I don't really notice anything running in a jerky fashion. Am I just visually challanged?

Most people don't notice flicker or chop at 30fps or higher but there are exceptions. So you're not challenged just probably on the normal scale. I'm one of those that can see it at less than 30fps pretty quickly and can even feel it to an extent when scrolling the camara it almost feels sluggish and I end up jerking my mouse across the screen hoping to adjust it. At 10fps I'd be going bonkers at the sluggish rate of movement of the camara as this was an issue with Morrowind when it first came out. Even the highest end video cards could hardly drive that game above 10fps in towns where there were a lot of npcs.

[HintJ]

Here a cool pic of hiding in the grass w/the grass turned off!

I'm glad we have the grass, because my units can hide in it, but you better believe I'm turning it off! I'll turn it on to make sure it's there, though.

[Mad Russian]

ORIGINAL: diablo1

Down near the bottom right hand corner of Guild Wars main player screen is a little dot and it will show your FPS if you scroll your pointer over it and also your ping is shown down there as well. I get 60-72fps with maxed out graphics playing Guild Wars and I get around 29-30fps down to 24fps with PCO maxed out and zoomed in all the way to ground level. Grass off and it's back up to 50-60fps. That's a big hit to FPS with all this GRASS. While the performance at 24-30fps is acceptable there is definitely a difference in the scrolling and movement of the camara as it's more jerky and not what I would call "smooth" at all. Cutting trees down to min also boosts FPS by 14FPS. I like trees though so I leave them on but grass go bye bye every game.

If you aren't into the immersion factor of the grass you can easily turn it off. The game reads the LOS obstructions either way. So whether you see the grass or not the effects of it are still in the game and affecting your play.

Good Hunting.

MR

[diablo1]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

ORIGINAL: diablo1

Down near the bottom right hand corner of Guild Wars main player screen is a little dot and it will show your FPS if you scroll your pointer over it and also your ping is shown down there as well. I get 60-72fps with maxed out graphics playing Guild Wars and I get around 29-30fps down to 24fps with PCO maxed out and zoomed in all the way to ground level. Grass off and it's back up to 50-60fps. That's a big hit to FPS with all this GRASS. While the performance at 24-30fps is acceptable there is definitely a difference in the scrolling and movement of the camara as it's more jerky and not what I would call "smooth" at all. Cutting trees down to min also boosts FPS by 14FPS. I like trees though so I leave them on but grass go bye bye every game.

If you aren't into the immersion factor of the grass you can easily turn it off. The game reads the LOS obstructions either way. So whether you see the grass or not the effects of it are still in the game and affecting your play.

Good Hunting.

MR

Yeah I already knew taht Mad, this isn't about immersion though it's about FPS and the low level of it with grass turned on.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: HintJ

Here a cool pic of hiding in the grass w/the grass turned off!

I'm glad we have the grass, because my units can hide in it, but you better believe I'm turning it off! I'll turn it on to make sure it's there, though.

You're right, that is a good close up pic. That T34 is in for a suprise.

Thanks
rick

[junk2drive]

If you turn it on I can ask "who's grass mod is that?"

[AstroCat]

My experiences with PCO graphic performance are like diablo1's and I have feeling are going to be pretty much the same across the board for people as they get the game. It might be a good game but the graphics engine isn't the most efficient and it shows.

[Mad Russian]

I would think that can be adjusted with some code changes. We haven't had the grass in the game all that long and the original designer for grass isn't with the team any longer. So, we'll work on that to see what can be done to lower the resource efficiency of the grass mods.

That's #1 on the list at the moment.

Good Hunting.

MR

[Richie61]

ORIGINAL: AstroCat

My experiences with PCO graphic performance are like diablo1's and I have feeling are going to be pretty much the same across the board for people as they get the game. It might be a good game but the graphics engine isn't the most efficient and it shows.

This happens with a lot of the older game engines on newer more powerful computers.
IL-2 COD is a perfect example. I am going to check what loads the official release is putting out.
I have a feeling the demo isn't putting much of a load on the GPU for example. My fps are around 26, but the GPU
and fan loads/ speeds doesn't ramp up much at all.