Razing the Reich

[Michael T]

T25 (4th Dec 1941) Blizzard.

Not much point putting up a map at this point. All you would see is a bunch of screening Cavalry pursuing an invisible enemy. I will post the map for the first January 1942 turn, unless something interesting happens meantime, highly unlikely. This is a very drab game to say the least. Next time I play Soviet I will be insisting on some Auto Victory Levels in 1941. No way I want a repeat of this episode.


Sov OOB 6.66
Sov Cas 2.13
Sov Dis 0.811
Sov Man 3009
Tr Pool 202
Tr Units 142
Tr Repair 51
Total Tr 395

Ger OOB 3.34
Ger Cas 0.547
Ger Dis 0.363
OP AFV 1599

[M60A3TTS]

Yeah, Pelton has dropped to #3 in my Axis Player Fantasy League behind Saper222 and glvaca.

Come to think of it, he may be vying for 4th if I throw you in there. [:D]

[SBD]

[>:]

[Michael T]

The Soviet OOB is increasing by 130K per turn. It’s at 6.8 mill T26. So unless there is some action or a sudden attrition surge I will have an OOB of 9 million by the end of April 1942! But I am wondering if I will have enough units to put all those guys in. Maybe I should keep a pool of 1 million troops in reserve. The mind boggles

[Michael T]

T27 (18 Dec 1941) Blizzard

North of the Pripet the Germans are milling around to the west of the blizzard demarcation line (3 hexes west of Riga). South of the Pripet some Germans and their sidekicks are stationed on a line roughly due south from Kiev to the Black Sea. There are no Axis troops east of these lines. I pursue as best I can. I am hamstrung by an ever diminishing truck pool and a rail conversion command that is comical (they prefer to convert track that leads east to a dead end rather than key lines to the west). Totally nuts. I have almost 60 RR brigades. Recruiting more RR dudes seems to only accelerate conversion to the east, or rather anywhere but west.

I have pretty much settled on a line I will be defending at the end of the blizzard. I cannot disclose it yet. I will post a censored map in 2 more turns.



Sov OOB 6.98
Sov Cas 214
Sov Dis 0.823
Sov Man 3122
Tr Pool 192
Tr Units 143
Tr Repair 56
Total Tr 391

Ger OOB 3.14
Ger Cas 0.632
Ger Dis 0.448

[gingerbread]

Corps (read Airborne) HQ have a max 5 hex range for construction. Two RR:s in an AB HQ placed 5 hexes west of the rail hex you want them to work on could do it. Try small scale first... [;)]

[Michael T]

End Soviet T29 (1st Jan 1942) Blizzard.

Nothing to report. The maps speak for themselves. Roll on summer.

More maps at the end of the Blizzard unless something interesting develops.

[randallw]

You could have spent another month pushing forward. I do like the idea of using a thin screen forward, to avoid the mass early spring encirclement that Pelton loves so much.

[Michael T]

I am very wary of the truck situation. Trucks and a very limited rail converstion rate all play in to Pelton's hands in this situation. The game surely needs some Auto victory level for Russia here. The game has developed in to a non sensensical farce as far as an historical wargame goes.

[Flaviusx]

I wouldn't push much further. Michael has reached natural stop lines based on terrain. Pelton is also behind the blizzard zone now in certain areas, and could easily punish an advance there. Indeed, I think Micheal may have already advanced too far north of the Pripyet. It's going to be a while before some of those rivers unfreeze, he may be overcommitted near Riga. The whole Baltic area is a potential deathtrap the way it opens up, you don't reach good defensive line there once pass the Dvina until all the way up to Narva-Pskov-Vitebsk. In the center he may be able to hold the Berezina and use that to screen the landbridge.

Down south the danger area is near Kiev. Dnepr won't unfreeze quickly enough there and Pelton could cross it in March. The lower Dnepr bend should be doable, but is also a long and awkward line to hold if Pelton can cross it north of Cherkassy.

[Michael T]

There are still 8 more turns of blizzard. I will be ready for the snow O or have a healthy buffer zone. Depending on what area of the front you examine. All will be reveiled come the snow turns. Remember my army will not be weakened due to blizzard battles and pursuits. They will be in position, ready, rested and waiting come late Feburary.

[Flaviusx]

Fair enough. Am still nervous about that concentration near Riga, though.

[Michael T]

You and me both. But without some risk or enticement 1942 could become boring real quick. I don't want that. As usual its a delicate balance. Risk versus reward.

[juret]

I like MT making a buffer zone.

The screening cavs are a low price for converting hexes. The more SU push back now in winter the further away germany will be from core russia.

I guess MT has a plan where to put the defensive lines come late spring summer 1942.

1942 in this game will be very different from other AAR´s but not less intresting for us following the thread. Its obvius whut germany´s plans are for 1942 and will be intresting to see whut an summeroffensive can accomplish againt the red army.

ty for the update MT.

[Balou]

Given MTs restricted map, I wonder what Peltons 41 campaign was all about. In military terms he didn’t achieve nothing – at least in my view. He abandoned more or less all conquered territories, postponed War in the East for one year, and now faces a Red Army twice as large and tougher in every department than in 1941 – paper tiger or not. Pelton may have conserved morale and numbers, but I don’t see any real net benefit. What am I missing ?

[morvael]

I guess this is playing to get minor axis victory at the end (45) and abandoning the auto-win victory condition. By having larger army, the Germans will be able to defend better, the Russian advance will be so slow, they may end up in 45 still in Poland or in western parts of Soviet Union. Of course it looks silly and is prompted by bad victory conditions in the game.

[Klydon]

ORIGINAL: Balou

Given MTs restricted map, I wonder what Peltons 41 campaign was all about. In military terms he didn’t achieve nothing – at least in my view. He abandoned more or less all conquered territories, postponed War in the East for one year, and now faces a Red Army twice as large and tougher in every department than in 1941 – paper tiger or not. Pelton may have conserved morale and numbers, but I don’t see any real net benefit. What am I missing ?

In a sense, this becomes a "what if" scenario of what would happen if the Germans had delayed their attack on Russia until 1942.

The Russians may be numerically stronger, but their army is no better than the 1941 version and in some ways, it is worse. (moral, no tank/mech divisions, etc). The good news for the Russians is they are closer to being better. The Russians do have cav corps available to help out as a "big" mobile unit.

Pelton will essentially have the 1941 quality German army available at his command with extra units, including extra panzer divisions equipped with better tanks. He will take a minor penalty when the infantry division ToE change takes place, but by and large, the moral for his entire army and the ToE for his entire army is intact and far beyond what is normally available for the 1942 Germans.

The bad part about all this is clearly Michael outplayed Pelton in 1941 and if the game had any sort of reasonable victory conditions, this game would be done. We now have to wait for the weather to improve to see if Pelton has a comeback in him and if the change in the basic rules set between 1941 and 1942 (specifically free replacement of units in 1941 compared to no free replacements in 1942) will have a big effect on this game or not. I don't think it comes down to what Michael has for manpower/equipment, etc. It is going to be a war on how many counters the Russians have and if the Germans can drop the count enough to have an impact on the overall aspect of the game.

A 1942 German start makes for a interesting "what if" scenario, but belongs in its own category.

[Balou]

I try to figure out what this "if" would have looked like IRL: first of all a morale drop on the Axis side - imagine to sell this "Vitebsk and reverse" to a german soldier. Second: OKW never would have been able to sell this thing to anyone, including the guy at the top. Third, apart from RL: 8-10+ mio sov troops have a quality of their own, and although damaged, manpower centers of nearly the entire country are in sov hands. So, to me, the only "if" is armaments and whether every men can be given a rifle. If so I am prepared to see a Red Army of awesome dimensions. And yes, because of low experience/morale, sov losses may be awesome too. Finally, I wonder whether Pelton has thought about the lower morale of replacements from 1942 onwards.

[Klydon]

Well, we are talking WITE here, which means trying to compare it to RL is a difficult enterprise at best. [:D]

The players role has not been defined in game, so we don't know exactly where they are at in the pecking order. There is no "executive command" to keep units in place, and the Germans must withdraw troops at certain times regardless of the status on the eastern front, so Stalin and Hitler don't have a role here. The average solder fought hard almost regardless of the situation for the Germans and moral was almost always high during the war. "Moral" in game is a combo of moral and experience. The grand manuver could be sold as a "trap". Ironic that Field Marshal von Rundstet recommended the very manuver Pelton is doing, so there is a RL connection.

From my understanding of replacements, they come into the unit and all things being equal, they have a tendency to gravitate to what the unit is. The only time replacements become a big issue is if the Germans lose units wholesale and have to be reconstituted from scratch.

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

The game has developed in to a non sensensical farce as far as an historical wargame goes.

Maybe, but I can't help thinking it's quite funny.