Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

[zuluhour]

Very true in China, I whole heartly agree. I am going to do everything I can to hold at Port Morseby, risky business, no doubt. It may be futile depending on IJ intentions. I laid 3 mine fields only to have Bettys take out all three ACMs two days later. There really is no alternative to "Sir Robin" to a great extent early. I am impressed at your tactics in the DEI where I sneak out whatever I can and hold impossible ground with little eye to a long defense. The more damage you inflict and time you can buy will certainly serve you well in either Burma or China during the dark days. I also agree to your commitment to Perth. It is my supply and fuel relay point (and oil while the DEI is navagable). Not playing a "B" or RA senario I believe I have an absolute minimum of 75 days before IJ can effect a landing within 400mi of Perth. ( can't remember now which scenario you are in and will check asap after this ramble.) This should allow enough time for moral recovery and replacements for a reinforced division at Perth and a brigade or two from Africa. (ETA from Aden-mid Feb.) Well, to finish the ramble, Geraldton, have a surprise ready for him, if he comes for west Australia he'll want it for LBA and you will have little to oppose it. Best of Luck-fun read!

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour
Not playing a "B" or RA senario I believe I have an absolute minimum of 75 days before IJ can effect a landing within 400mi of Perth.

I believe he's playing Scenario 2.

I would knock about 30 days off of that timeline for a landing within 400 mi. of Perth.

[Chickenboy]

Nice poke in the eye @ Muntok, moose. Make 'em pay for operating without air cover.

He's behind for getting an AirHQ and support to Singkawang. Until he does, his prosecution of Sumatra and Java will be considerably delayed. Good time to dump a bunch of LCUs onto Palembang, bull.

[zuluhour]

I meant days from Dec 7th, still knock off thirty days??

[Chickenboy]

Mechanically, it's quite possible for an IJ opponent to get something to Geraldton or surrounds before the end of January 1942.

Whether or not Bull's opponent is committed enough to such a reach is the real question. I've seen nothing to suggest that 1EyedJacks has even adopted a historical interest in the DEI / Malaya / PI, let alone a hastened timetable.

So-could he? Yes. Will he? Dunno. Any signs that he will? No.

[Canoerebel]

An Allied player would be absolutely nuts to try to hold PM against a decent IJ player. To do so would be the equivalent of the Confederate Army deciding to hold Alexandria, Virginia, from the outset of the Civil War and turn it into a major fortification.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Nice poke in the eye @ Muntok, moose. Make 'em pay for operating without air cover.

He's behind for getting an AirHQ and support to Singkawang. Until he does, his prosecution of Sumatra and Java will be considerably delayed. Good time to dump a bunch of LCUs onto Palembang, bull.

Thanks. The turn I just sent back at least a couple of CAs are still just inside the black Beest ring at about the same hex as the attack. I have everything that can fly (except the Cats this time) at Singers hanging a torpedo. I don't know why he stayed unless there's a big amphib gaggle over the horizon I haven't seen. Ive been getting lots of activity intel hits at Cam Rahn and Formosa, but you would expect that.

As we move through the second week now I still don't know what his focus is except taking a perimeter around Hawai and getting the railroads sorted in China. It seems to me that he is behind schedule, and being very slow with landings. I got a sighting intel hit last turn near Ternate and sent a sub, but so far there's no move on Tarakan or Balikpapan, Mindanao is sitting still after he took Davao, no pressure at all on Sumatra, very limited push south in Malaysia, etc. Singkawang is an immediate AI target in pretty much every game, and it's easy to see why. It's why I invested some scarce mines there. But so far no move.

I'm dumping what I can in Palembang. 2nd Gordon's Bn is there, and an Indian brigade (? have to look) is strat loading at Oost. It started in Madras. My EC air groups--B-bombers, P-39s, P-40s, some DBs--are still a month or so out of CT, and there are a couple of US ground units behind them. I've held off on sending more until I understand better what he's doing at Hawaii. Palembang and Singers are both stockpiling what they make and building only forts.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Mechanically, it's quite possible for an IJ opponent to get something to Geraldton or surrounds before the end of January 1942.

Whether or not Bull's opponent is committed enough to such a reach is the real question. I've seen nothing to suggest that 1EyedJacks has even adopted a historical interest in the DEI / Malaya / PI, let alone a hastened timetable.

So-could he? Yes. Will he? Dunno. Any signs that he will? No.

I agree. He doesn't, so far as I know, have Force Z located, and going that deep behind Java with absolutely nothing taken on Java or Sumatra is a risk to me. The road from Geraldton to Perth is slower than the railroad to Perth from anywhere east, and running LBA from Geraldton would take some building. It starts either as a 1 or 2 AF. Like many places, with WWII tech it's hard to do envolopment attacks such as that would be. You need to step toward your objectives for the most part, leaving a log trail behind you. Ranges and sensors aren't good enough to do what we can do now.

The short answer to me is an attack on Geraldton just annoys the Allies. It doesn't really "get anything done."

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

An Allied player would be absolutely nuts to try to hold PM against a decent IJ player. To do so would be the equivalent of the Confederate Army deciding to hold Alexandria, Virginia, from the outset of the Civil War and turn it into a major fortification.

Rocky likes a good steak, not nuts, but that's about what he said. [:)]

I thought about what Mike could bring in Scen 2, with no HRs, and decided I liked steak too.

[zuluhour]

An Allied player would be absolutely nuts to try to hold PM against a decent IJ player

An exceptionally bold statement. To bold to me.
1) depends on IJ commitment to the task, if at all.
2) With Allied commitment to the task, it must be done before the end of spring or it will be the "Verdun" of the Pacific.
3) It may be the only time in '42 the Allies can bring significant LBA and 360-450 carrier aircraft to one dance. (I seek CV trades early where feasable)


All IMHO, and with respect.

My question in return: If Port Morseby was a primary target for IJ, where would the application of force end up in the time table? ie. How long could they postpone the Op to be assured of success? I was surprised by Chickenboys response to a time table for western Australia. I confess I opened up the stock game as IJ and was kind of shocked. Perhaps, surrounded by TWITs, and of the romantic mind, I believe in the under dog and the improbabilities to much. I like to think the classical mind is open for the picking.[;)]

sorry for the hi jack moose.

I removed comment #4. For me it is a political paradox. (ref: civil war) not a can of worms to be opened here. I assert that IJ motives, once ascertained, may allow any number of strategies of which many are time sensitive.

[Encircled]

I don't think its possible to hold PM against a reasonable Japanese player

You just don't have the PP's to hold that and everything else you've got to do.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

An Allied player would be absolutely nuts to try to hold PM against a decent IJ player

An exceptionally bold statement. To bold to me.
1) depends on IJ commitment to the task, if at all.
2) With Allied commitment to the task, it must be done before the end of spring or it will be the "Verdun" of the Pacific.
3) It may be the only time in '42 the Allies can bring significant LBA and 360-450 carrier aircraft to one dance. (I seek CV trades early where feasable)


All IMHO, and with respect.

My question in return: If Port Morseby was a primary target for IJ, where would the application of force end up in the time table? ie. How long could they postpone the Op to be assured of success? I was surprised by Chickenboys response to a time table for western Australia. I confess I opened up the stock game as IJ and was kind of shocked. Perhaps, surrounded by TWITs, and of the romantic mind, I believe in the under dog and the improbabilities to much. I like to think the classical mind is open for the picking.[;)]

sorry for the hi jack moose.

I removed comment #4. For me it is a political paradox. (ref: civil war) not a can of worms to be opened here. I assert that IJ motives, once ascertained, may allow any number of strategies of which many are time sensitive.

You make good points, but it seems to me that your argument rests on committing the USN CVs to the region to have any real hope of a meeting engagement and holding PM Coral Sea-style. That might work, but then it might not. I personally don't like to put my carriers near there that early as I don't think PM is worth even one of them. In RL the off-map logistic railroad wasn't available, so holding PM was really necessary to keep Oz supplied. In my past AI games holding it mostly lets the Allies stop Lae and the nearby bases from building too fast or at all until amphib landings can be done at Buna and NG rolled up by land. PM plays no real role in logistics in my games.

PM is a tasty VP treat for Japan though, and holding it does cut off Darwin and north Oz from Brisbane and Sydney supply. As part of a larger regional campaign I could see Japan investing quite a bit to take it, and its port can be made large enough to rapid-load Japanese LCUs for use in Oz afterward.

[Bullwinkle58]

Just ran the movie for December 21. The best day yet for the Allies. Details to follow.

[BBfanboy]

You teaser you! You better post in the morning - I have my popcorn ready for breakfast and a movie ...

[CaptBeefheart]

Moose: Just wanted to let you know I'm following this and wanted to express my appreciation for a fine AAR which teaches a lot. Also, what kind of sadistic AAR writer leaves a "details to follow" message like that? [:)]

Cheers,
CC

[Encircled]

When you are off work for half term with the kids, and the builders are banging around upstairs, and its basically all chaos, the very last thing you need to read is "details to follow"!

Your audience awaits!

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Moose: Just wanted to let you know I'm following this and wanted to express my appreciation for a fine AAR which teaches a lot. Also, what kind of sadistic AAR writer leaves a "details to follow" message like that? [:)]

Cheers,
CC

What can I say? I used to be in marketing![8D]

I have a doctor's appt this morning, but I'll post when I get home. To tease some more, I'm a sub guy, and the subs got busy, at least by 1941 standards. And it was a very, very . . . very . . . bad day to be a crewman on an IJN CA.

Mike's e-mail with the file said "You might find some small bit of enjoyment in watching it...."

I did indeed.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Moose: Just wanted to let you know I'm following this and wanted to express my appreciation for a fine AAR which teaches a lot. Also, what kind of sadistic AAR writer leaves a "details to follow" message like that? [:)]

Cheers,
CC

I am humbled because I feel like I'm groping around in the dark. Watching horrible storm news yesterday I was micro-tweaking the turn and found that four hours had passed. And I still wasn't sure what the heck I should do in China.

When this is over, however it ends up, I hope I will have either come up with a new way to "do China" or a new way to never "do China" again.

(For Americans, you might see the slang inherent in that phrase . . .") [;)]

[Canoerebel]

Permit me to clarify my comments about PM, since, on reading back through this page, it might seem that my "nuts" comment was aimed at Zulu. It wasn't - I wasn't aware of who had made the references to PM when I made my post, as I had only read the last few posts before I made mine. Zulu is "good people" and I hope he didn't take offense. (That's a legit concern, because I did something similar once before and really torched a relationship with a good member of the forums.)

PM is far to advanced for the Allies to risk against an experienced player. Japan can take it at its will through mid 1942 (or later). That means it is a potential prison camp for any major garrison the Allies commit there. Japan can isolate it and take it without hardly breaking a sweat, so it's not like it serves as a diversion "sucking in Japanese attention" that might be better used elsewhere. IE, it costs the Allies far more than it does Japan. If you need a second on this motion, I refer you to Q-Ball. As an IJ player, he would simply abuse any Allied strategy that included a "forward PM" defense.

In Scenario 2, Noumea might be the most analagous base to the Real War PM. Even then, I am reluctant to garrison Noumea until I'm sure Japan isn't coming for it. But think of that - Noumea is at least a 1,000 miles southeast of PM.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I was micro-tweaking the turn and found that four hours had passed.

A-ha! I thought you said that you didn't do 'fiddly'? [;)]

I find that I have to consciously distance myself from a turn and decide 'good enough'. When I get to a-fiddlin' with my units (and production-yeesh), time flies.