The Future Of Complex Wargames Looks Bleak

[aaatoysandmore]

(@MATT), Man I played all of them especially the gold box ones man those were the best stories evah and then some. Did you ever play "Sword of Fargoal"? Questrons I and II, Temple of Apshai? Phantasie? I have the original Might and Magic I and II when we had to map our own adventures like a real dnd game. Have all 3 of the Eye of Beholder series.

Who remembers "Tigers in the Snow"?, Knights of the Desert? Battle for Normandy? The original RTS game "Combat Leader" http://videogamegeek.com/videogame/107667/combat-leader (read the comment about this one way back then) , Eagles the only turn based WWI plane wargame that I can recall till Sid Meier's Ace Patrol on Steam and that one from Roo games: Wings over France 1917.

Ahhhh the 80's the best of times to be a gamer. "Warlords" how many hours did we pour into that game? If you didn't play "War of the Lance" get you a copy somehow and play one of the best games ever made with the best diplomacy ever made in a game.

[MrsWargamer]

Two valid details that make all the difference.

When I started with war games, the average example of a 'war gamer' was a person with advanced education who was fairly literate, used to reading thick looking text, and most notably, there was no digital realm to compete with. Today 'reading the manual' is not a popular concept, the whole attention span issue, and there most certainly is the digital realm to compete with.

To sell a war game today, you have to actually do it many times better than it was ever done before.

It's not about the graphics. It's not the complexity, it's the entire experience.

I have the Civilization board game. Awesome map panels that can be employed random. Awesome playing pieces and lots of cards. The components are incredible. The rule book while not a hard read to a person who reads a lot, still consumes time to explain to an audience. Setting it for play takes time as well. It's not a set up and play in 5 minutes game. Yet still I have had people enjoy it who were certainly not 'gamers'.

But it is still a challenge to make it 'attractive' as a way to have fun.

I have seen plenty of war games made by both good developers and ho hum ones produce games that came, face planted and were quickly forgotten as dismal ideas rather quickly. Fools and their money are soon parted, and those fools are some times developers. Just because you make it, doesn't mean anyone will want it.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: wings7

ORIGINAL: Hattori Hanzo

to start you can try "Fighting Flattops", a remake of the Battleline-Avalon Hill "Flat Top" Pacific WW2 wargame playable for free on the web:

http://www.fightingflattops.com/

or PlanetsNu, a remake of Tim Wisseman VGA Planets: a space 4X not bad at all - also this one is playable for free on the web:

http://planets.nu/#/start

and there are many others strategy and wargames playable for free on the web.. [8D]

Have you played "Fighting Flattops"? How do you like it? The original Avalon Hill "Flat Top" was a classic! [:)]

Flat Top was a Battleline game first http://grognard.com/ArticlePageList.asp ... f7#pageTop

[Talon_XBMCX]

Have fond memories of many summer days playing Flat Top, Submarine, Luftwaffe, and Third Reich with my brothers. Still have them sitting on the shelf in my office. May be time to crack Flat Top open again ...

[wings7]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: wings7

ORIGINAL: Hattori Hanzo

to start you can try "Fighting Flattops", a remake of the Battleline-Avalon Hill "Flat Top" Pacific WW2 wargame playable for free on the web:

http://www.fightingflattops.com/

or PlanetsNu, a remake of Tim Wisseman VGA Planets: a space 4X not bad at all - also this one is playable for free on the web:

http://planets.nu/#/start

and there are many others strategy and wargames playable for free on the web.. [8D]

Have you played "Fighting Flattops"? How do you like it? The original Avalon Hill "Flat Top" was a classic! [:)]

Flat Top was a Battleline game first http://grognard.com/ArticlePageList.asp ... f7#pageTop

Do you know if there is much difference between the Batteline version and the Avalon Hill version?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

ORIGINAL: warspite1

aaatoysandmore
There was a time when developers just made the games for the love of making them and not the money.

Just out of interest, where does that stat come from? Who were these wargaming philanthropists and what happened to them? Why did they all stop making games for the love and start actually wanting to earn a living?

Just curious.

Google is your friend Yahoo search engine also. Look something up once in awhile. [:'(]

warspite1

How old are you 5? Its a discussion board - you know where people discuss things/share ideas etc. So you state something, I ask for info and you say "go look it up yourself". Grow up.

[aaatoysandmore]

>:)

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore




Google is your friend Yahoo search engine also. Look something up once in awhile. [:'(]

warspite1

How old are you 5? Its a discussion board - you know where people discuss things/share ideas etc. So you state something, I ask for info and you say "go look it up yourself". Grow up.

You grow up and learn to do things for YOURSELF. You're like my 8 year old grand nephew he wants everything done for him. Silver spoon mouth fed much in your life? [:'(]

warspite1

Its called a conversation [8|]. I asked a question and you conclude I want everything done for me and have had a silver spoon upbringing. You need help.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

aaatoysandmore
There was a time when developers just made the games for the love of making them and not the money.

Just out of interest, where does that stat come from? Who were these wargaming philanthropists and what happened to them? Why did they all stop making games for the love and start actually wanting to earn a living?

Just curious.

I think we can assume these mythical brave souls ended up this way:

[demyansk]

I'll continue to buy the games from Matrix.

[wings7]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

How old are you 5? Its a discussion board - you know where people discuss things/share ideas etc. So you state something, I ask for info and you say "go look it up yourself". Grow up.

You grow up and learn to do things for YOURSELF. You're like my 8 year old grand nephew he wants everything done for him. Silver spoon mouth fed much in your life? [:'(]

warspite1

Its called a conversation [8|]. I asked a question and you conclude I want everything done for me and have had a silver spoon upbringing. You need help.

Indeed...and he deleted "You grow up and learn to do things for YOURSELF. You're like my 8 year old grand nephew he wants everything done for him. Silver spoon mouth fed much in your life?", trying to hide his insulting remark.

[zakblood]

[:-]

[Hattori Hanzo]

Have you played "Fighting Flattops"? How do you like it? The original Avalon Hill "Flat Top" was a classic!

I played and completed a couple of games of "Fighting Flattops" and I'm now playing the third.
I like it, really and I can recommend it strongly.

by the way, I have also a game in play at the classical Avalon Hill "Flat Top" in those last months with other 4 friends of our wargaming group: 2 squads of two players and one master: played this way it shine !!! [X(]

[Hattori Hanzo]

Do you know if there is much difference between the Batteline version and the Avalon Hill version?

I have both, but I have played only the Avalon Hill one that was the first I buyed in 1987.
then some years after I buyed also the Battleline version in eBay after contracting the dangerous "Wargames Collector virus".. [:D]

not much difference anyway fron the two versions: the Avalon Hill one is more refined but also the Battleline version can be played using both the Battleline rules or the Avalon Hill rules.

some little differences in the maps.

no differences in the counters.

I have the PDF files of the Avalon Hill version and I can provide them to you if you are interested [:)]

[Jagdtiger14]

Wings7: Indeed...and he deleted "You grow up and learn to do things for YOURSELF. You're like my 8 year old grand nephew he wants everything done for him. Silver spoon mouth fed much in your life?", trying to hide his insulting remark.

Wow! Are you a snitch Wings? Why don't you mind your own business, snitch?

[wings7]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Wings7: Indeed...and he deleted "You grow up and learn to do things for YOURSELF. You're like my 8 year old grand nephew he wants everything done for him. Silver spoon mouth fed much in your life?", trying to hide his insulting remark.

Wow! Are you a snitch Wings? Why don't you mind your own business, snitch?

It is my business...

[wings7]

ORIGINAL: Hattori Hanzo

Do you know if there is much difference between the Batteline version and the Avalon Hill version?

I have both, but I have played only the Avalon Hill one that was the first I buyed in 1987.
then some years after I buyed also the Battleline version in eBay after contracting the dangerous "Wargames Collector virus".. [:D]

not much difference anyway fron the two versions: the Avalon Hill one is more refined but also the Battleline version can be played using both the Battleline rules or the Avalon Hill rules.

some little differences in the maps.

no differences in the counters.

I have the PDF files of the Avalon Hill version and I can provide them to you if you are interested [:)]

Thanks for your reply and info Luis! I bought the Avalon Hill version a few years ago...I need to get back into it! [:)]

[Jagdtiger14]

Wow! Are you a snitch Wings? Why don't you mind your own business, snitch? It is my business...

Really? How is it your business snitch? This should be good!

[PipFromSlitherine]

Guys. Be civil.

Cheers

Pip

[aaatoysandmore]

ORIGINAL: wings7

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore




You grow up and learn to do things for YOURSELF. You're like my 8 year old grand nephew he wants everything done for him. Silver spoon mouth fed much in your life? [:'(]

warspite1

Its called a conversation [8|]. I asked a question and you conclude I want everything done for me and have had a silver spoon upbringing. You need help.

Indeed...and he deleted "You grow up and learn to do things for YOURSELF. You're like my 8 year old grand nephew he wants everything done for him. Silver spoon mouth fed much in your life?", trying to hide his insulting remark.

That's because I decided not to be "childish" like the rest of you two. [:)] You both have a way of disrupting a thread. You are being watched I hope you know. [:)]