Pricing Suggestion

[thewood1]

I work with opportunity cost every single day running my business. I have actually talked about it relating to pricing on this site before.

But opportunity cost is not a magic number. It relates to what you think growth is and where your market is. If you think hardcore naval wargamers is really the only market you will have reasonable penetration in, regardless of price, it becomes a minor consideration. Where oppcost come in is if you think lowering the price will drive significant sales. Matrix obviously doesn't think so, and I tend to agree.

But I am also an impatient gamer. I like that I have two huge databases and don't have to wait two years to complete my game.

[Alejo1968]

ORIGINAL: thewood1

SO there is the real point isn't it. Matrix releases it at $60 and maybe, maybe you'd consider buying it. Suddenly it is not as clear cut. So instead of us waiting an extra nine months, or Cold War being released nine months ago at $60 and we now pay $35 for modern, we get both for $80 now. So are you waiting on the discount for MG or are you buying day 1? You know it will be $35 and I assume you bought all the other CMBN stuff...so you must be out at least $95, and maybe as much as $145. Where is the post to BFC about the cost of playing CMBN?

May be is my english, but I really dont get you. Just to clarify things...
80 dollars is a TOO high price, i just cannot afford it right nor, may be in the future... No matter how complete it is, how nice, how sandbox.
For me CM was a complete product from the beggining. Didnt ask when I first purchased it for more than it came with it. And buying expansion is always an option, i didnt purchase the italian front because I was not interested in it, and still I had a complete product.
I insist, its wrong to compare CM with this. And beside that, you cannot say that it wont happen the same here. In two years be paying more above 80.

[thewood1]

I am hoping to pay more than $80. That means they have continued development. Again, you are spending more on CMBN than this game. Do it the same way. Put $20US in a jar each month and pretend Command was never released. After 4 months, you have your game. But if other games interest you more, that is the point. This game is not marketed towards anyone but hardcore people. You are obviously not one of them.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Alchenar
There's been precisely fuck-all attempt to actually market this game outside of this site and wargamer.com. The fact is that before we even start to talk about quality or price, Matrix haven't even done the bare minimum due diligence to try to bring attention to the game to a wider audience.

You’ve got to be kidding me. Had Matrix marketed this game or any of their games to mass appeal sites they would be slammed as too complex, too boring and not shiny enough in the graphics department. I’ve never seen a main stream site give a complex wargame a good review, and bad press is permanent press on the internet, because it’ll be at the top of a Google search forever. You don’t market your product somewhere if it is going to hurt your sales.

There is a reason you have to dumb down a game to sell a lot of units, people who enjoy deep complex games like those sold at Matrix are a very small piece of the market. Intelligent targeted marketing is good marketing in niche markets. Matrix has built a strong reputation over the years as the place to go for these kinds of games, that’s why developers are coming to Matrix, the market they want is here, it’s not at the smaller competitor sites, they only see a fraction of the market that comes here.

The notion you can sell 100,000 more units to the masses if only you let them see is a very naive position to take and probably stems more from a selfish desire to get something for yourself cheaper than from logical marketing sense.

I’ve always tried to get my brother into the games I enjoy, and he’s a very smart man. But I’ll never forget what he told me once when I pushed harder than usual. He said, “When I play a game I want to get lost for a few hours, I don’t want to work at it”. That’s the difference between our niche and the masses, we enjoy these games and most people hate them as work, they will never buy in huge numbers.

Jim

[CoffeeMug]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

...

/sign

Actually, these kind of games (CMANO, WITP, ASL (the boardgame), etc.) are WORK. But the results and the experience are more rewarding than anything.

Cheers,
Coffee

[Quellist]

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Again, do you agree with the logic on the pricing, separating out your future predictions of re-releasing Command?

If they had released Cold War at $55, and then charged $35 in nine months?

Also note that BFC made you buy CM all over again, even if you bought all the CM1s...not even a discount. I think it was the right thing to do, but still had the same title. Even Wargame European Escalation did this. It is about to happen to Achtung Panzer as well with its new release. I agree with all of them.

I have to ask if you are privy to some sort of internal roadmap? To me it seems quite possible that some sort of database update/scenario pack get released in <9 months for 35+$. As there isn't a demo, there should at least be some indications what kind of premium support one can expect and at what point they expect us to pay for something new. I'm not looking for rock solid stuff, more some sort of guidance. I'm not familiar with how matrix has done things in the past, but talk about re-relasing games (witp?)also has me a bit concerned.

[catwhoorg]

My only comment on the pricing is that it is exactly the price point I expected for this game.

I will not be picking it up in the next month or so, but it will be bought at some point in the future.

[Alejo1968]

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I am hoping to pay more than $80. That means they have continued development. Again, you are spending more on CMBN than this game. Do it the same way. Put $20US in a jar each month and pretend Command was never released. After 4 months, you have your game. But if other games interest you more, that is the point. This game is not marketed towards anyone but hardcore people. You are obviously not one of them.

Really?

You do not consider hardcore CM?
Ive been in the military for 25 years, dont say that to me. It is hardcore.
You do not consider hardcore Rise of Flight?
Ive been a combat pilot in my country for 20 years... dont say that... It is hardcore.
You do not consider a superbly complet way to recreate ww2 in it great context World in Flames?
i love and studied startegy, it is hardcore
I own harpoon (you know, the romantic boxed set) and many expansions.
You think Im not hardcore?
You should think a little bit more before than stating what you think.

And one more thing, I would love to have this wargame, and beliveme, You are right, Ill start saving money and will probably buy it. Anyway, it
is TOO expensive.

[aluminumx]

ORIGINAL: delenda


You've completely priced out a large group of your customer base. I'd be shocked if there weren't any dodgy copies floating around within a week that the majority of your potential customers will use instead. Your 'niche genre' customers are being punished the most.

**** EDITED - ANY DISCUSSION OF PIRACY IN ANY FORM IS NOT PERMITTED ****

But let me play the devil's advocate here. I am guessing matrix is choosing to stick with what works for them. This may mean far less money. While a lower price may be more like a risk or gambling in their eyes. And it is. They would need to rely big time on more people will buy it for less. And they may feel uncomfortable with that. After all they are not a big gaming Corporation .

With that said. By my count, I find about 4 people who say they won't buy the game, for everyone who says they have, or will soon. If such a 4:1 ratio represents over all sales, then is really bad. And represents a larger chunk of potential revenue, that now they won't be getting. That could have been something like $240,000 (at a lower price) vs $90,000 (current price).

But again let me play devil's advocate. They could be under contract and need a immediate boost to income (as lower pricing can mean slow start for revenue growth , seeing big numbers) to cover an agreed upon payment at, such and such date.

In the end, this bickering is not going to do any good. Matrix seems to made up it's mind. Besides it their company and pocket but. So the way I see it. Let them do what ever they want.

[delenda]

ORIGINAL: aluminumx

ORIGINAL: delenda


You've completely priced out a large group of your customer base. I'd be shocked if there weren't any dodgy copies floating around within a week that the majority of your potential customers will use instead. Your 'niche genre' customers are being punished the most.

**** EDITED - ANY DISCUSSION OF PIRACY IN ANY FORM IS NOT PERMITTED ****

But let me play the devil's advocate here. I am guessing matrix is choosing to stick with what works for them. This may mean far less money. While a lower price may be more like a risk or gambling in their eyes. And it is. They would need to rely big time on more people will buy it for less. And they may feel uncomfortable with thay. After all they are Nirvana big gaming Corporation .

With that said. By my count, I find about 4 people who say they won't buy the game, for everyone who says they have or will soon. If such a 4:1 ratio represents over all sales, then is really bad. And represents a larger chunk of potential revenue, that now they won't be getting. That could have been something like $240,000 (at a lower price) vs $90,000 (current price).

But again let me play devil's advocate. They could be under contract and need a immediate boost to income (as lower pricing can mean slow start for revenue growth , seeing big numbers) to cover an agreed upon payment at, such and such date.

In the end, this bickering is not going to do any good. Matrix seems to made up it's mind. Besides it their company and pocket but. So the way I see it. Let them do what ever they want.

heh maybe I should do the lottery this weekend [:D]

[Alejo1968]

In the end, this bickering is not going to do any good. Matrix seems to made up it's mind. Besides it their company and pocket but. So the way I see it. Let them do what ever they want.

Of course it was a long time ago taken decition, anyway, the more we write about, maybe, just maybe, could increase our chances of geting a great wargame. Clearly this would also protect the developers and their products. Too high cost, too low sales, less developments regarding this kind of softwares, they loose, we loose.

[CoffeeMug]

The argument, that the right price point curbs software theft, does not hold water. People having rooted their iphones steal apps worth one USD! So you want to tell us, that people wont use pirate software if the game costs 50 USD and not 80 USD?

Sceptical dog is sceptical.

http://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3886822656/hB26779A2/


edited for generalization

[wombat778]

My 2c, I have no problem at all paying this sort of price for a high quality, deep simulation. For example, I quite happily paid $115 for SB Pro PE, $89 for the PMDG 777, and $69 for the PMDG 737. Similarly, I have a policy of buying all the DCS modules, regardless of whether I actually am interested in the content (probably have several hundred sunk into that so far). Personally, I would MUCH rather pay even double those amounts and get simulations of that quality every few years than pay $39 or $49 and get a watered down product or have the developer go out of business after one release.

The key for me is that the product be a true high-quality simulation (e.g., deep modeling, expert input, significant research, polished design, etc.). For example, the PMDG 777 simulates the fluid dynamics of the hydraulics system, thousands of electrical connections, etc., such that when a failure occurs they have the same cascading effects as they would in the real airplane. It comes with thousands of pages of documentation (essentially the complete actual 777 manuals). This is the kind of simulation and attention to detail that I expect for the premium price.

As it stands, I am not yet sure whether Command is there. Having bought it last night and spending about an hour with it, I am not sure that I am "feeling" the depth and rigorous attention to detail yet. I need more time with it to come to a conclusion.

[Alejo1968]

ORIGINAL: CoffeeMug

The argument, that the right price point curbs software theft, does not hold water. People having rooted their iphones steal apps worth one USD! So you want to tell us, that you wont use pirate software if the game costs 50 USD and not 80 USD?

Sceptical dog is sceptical.

http://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3886822656/hB26779A2/

sorry, Im not sure but will ask anyway, was your reply intended to me? If you did, I never spoke about piracy, I was speaking strictly about companies making profit with products they sale. If they do not sale, that encourages not other companies to further develop softwares like this one. Just that.


sorry, just saw the reply to who in the lower right [8|]

[Hexagon]

And if we reverse the argument???

Pay 80 dolars for a game not 50 increase beneficts and reduce pirate software??? if you think it works sell your idea to STEAM, sure they buy it [8|]

I am more sceptical here, and in the end who plan pay 0 is going to pay 0 cost 50 or 80 but who is out of this sure is more stoped by a 80 price than for a 50... and i dont say pay 50 dolars for it, i set in my case price between 50-60 euros TAXES INCLUDED this is 67-80 dolars with Taxes and 55-66 dolars with out taxes VS 85 dolars with out taxes.

[CoffeeMug]

ORIGINAL: Abbeville_01


sorry, Im not sure but will ask anyway, was your reply intended to me? If you did, I never spoke about piracy, I was speaking strictly about companies making profit with products they sale. If they do not sale, that encourages not other companies to further develop softwares like this one. Just that.

No, it wasnt. It was this

there is already a copy floating around in a few select Retroshare swarms. That means it is only a matter of time before it's on the big P2P's and anyone can get it. So now, they created a situation where, many who would have gladly paid for it. That is if it was cheaper, will now just play for free. I wonder if that was part of their revenue generating plan.

All fine, friend.

Cheers,
Coffee

[wodin]

Well they have freely admitted that it isn't really feature complete and they wanted to get it out now than wait..which is why I have difficulty in the pricing point here..feature complete fair enough but as it isn't and they have more work to do on it strikes me as odd..I do expect though the future additions come in patches and aren't sold cos if they are sold that would be bad. Personally I think they should have gone the module route..here is the first module $39.99..then for the next modules charge $29.99 (I.E Module 1 Land Warfare Infantry\SpecOps then Module 2 Land Warfare Armour etc etc) until they have everything they want in it done, that would have made sense to me.

Anyway I do hope it turns out your money was well spent.

ORIGINAL: wombat778

My 2c, I have no problem at all paying this sort of price for a high quality, deep simulation. For example, I quite happily paid $115 for SB Pro PE, $89 for the PMDG 777, and $69 for the PMDG 737. Similarly, I have a policy of buying all the DCS modules, regardless of whether I actually am interested in the content (probably have several hundred sunk into that so far). Personally, I would MUCH rather pay even double those amounts and get simulations of that quality every few years than pay $39 or $49 and get a watered down product or have the developer go out of business after one release.

The key for me is that the product be a true high-quality simulation (e.g., deep modeling, expert input, significant research, polished design, etc.). For example, the PMDG 777 simulates the fluid dynamics of the hydraulics system, thousands of electrical connections, etc., such that when a failure occurs they have the same cascading effects as they would in the real airplane. It comes with thousands of pages of documentation (essentially the complete actual 777 manuals). This is the kind of simulation and attention to detail that I expect for the premium price.

As it stands, I am not yet sure whether Command is there. Having bought it last night and spending about an hour with it, I am not sure that I am "feeling" the depth and rigorous attention to detail yet. I need more time with it to come to a conclusion.

[RockKahn]

I hope Matrix appreciates the gaming community's hard work in coming up with all these new and innovative ways to maximize their profits.....well, one, I guess....lower prices. It's not really very innovative, but our hearts are in the right place. [:'(]

[aluminumx]

ORIGINAL: CoffeeMug

The argument, that the right price point curbs software theft, does not hold water. People having rooted their iphones steal apps worth one USD! So you want to tell us, that you wont use pirate software if the game costs 50 USD and not 80 USD?

Sceptical dog is sceptical.

I agree, to a point. There are thoughs that will do it anyway, but then there are thoughs who will do it of they can't afford it. Or can but say it's not worth it at that price. Look at the music industry. People had been download in droves. Then, (thanks in part to Steve Jobs) and still do but thanks to many things like being able to buy your favorite songs for $0.99 instead of a whole CDs for$20.00 when you only wanted one song. we have less download. Price does have an effect. It just will not effect though who will do it no matter what.

[IainMcNeil]

People who have bought the game are not wasting their time here talking about the price - they are playing the game.