Avoiding the Turkeyshoot – Marianas Scen Justus2 (J) vs nardiajn (A)

[Justus2]

The AKA BELLATRIX had an eventful day… [:'(] After dodging 2 torps from the mini-sub, she was hit in two separate attacks by RO-115. After daybreak, she caught the attention of a stray element of Jills, but every one of the 4 hits with a torpedo! BANZAI! [8D]

[Justus2]

The main KB strike finds Al’s transport TF at Tinian, and damages 5 APAs, sinking one, as well as a couple LCIs in the afternoon. [8D] They hadn’t started unloading before this strike, so hopefully those that swam to shore will be disrupted.

The remnants of planes on Saipan also flew a few sorties, but most were chewed up by CAP. I did get a torp hit on one other APA out of those groups.

[Justus2]

Al’s CVs didn’t get a counterstrike against KB, but they did go after some of my smaller shipping. My small xAKL TF has been shuttling supplies from Guam to Saipan, and dodged a sub on the way back, but got plastered by his Helldivers, which sank all 5 ships. I also had a SC on ASW patrol get obliterated by 2 Avenger torps. Bad day to be on a small ship… [X(]

[Justus2]

The landings haven’t helped his odds at Tinian much, at least not yet. His raw AV has gone up about 50 over the past couple days, but effective AV is severely degraded in today’s assault, and he takes heavy losses.

Pagan miraculously survives another day. Forts at zero, raw AV down to 4, and they still cause his attack to come off at 1-2. I am starting to question that (-) for experience for my guys, I would think after three straight weeks of his assaults, the survivors ought to be pretty experienced by now! [:'(]

[Justus2]

I am pulling KB back up toward Iwo, to link up with SHOKAKU. I split HIYO into a separate TF with a couple DDs, but following the same course so she can be covered by KB’s CAP. I flew a couple squadrons to fill out SHOKAKU, and another to Iwo, but left a small Sen Baku fighter squadron on board for local CAP.

Al’s CVs are mostly SE of Tinian, with some CA/DD TFs around, and a small group of AKAs heading east (I think they are the group that landed yesterday). I mentioned a Rep TF near Truk yesterday, there’s a CVTF there now (3 CVs+) – not sure if it was a trap, or if they were getting refueled from the Rep TF and headed back now. Luckily, in hindsight, bad weather grounded my Betties and Frances from Truk this turn, so they didn’t fly into all that CAP. I shifted everything back to search, and moved the xAKs that loaded with fuel out of Truk.

You can also see my air losses on the day - over 60, for only about 30 of his. What was left of the small land-based DBs and TBs has been shifted to Iwo, I am going to disband them to fill out a couple of CV squadrons while I pull KB north. I can probably launch one more good strike from KB if I see an opportunity, but if not I'm content to keep them safe for the remaining 10 days.

[Crackaces]

AV is an interesting stat to track .. I think it tells you a lot about the state of the force. For example, the odds going down to 1-2
and no change in force composition tells me he has lots of disrupted squads ...

Firepower is a far more interesting stat to be aware of I think ....It is possible to have 1-50 odds but take 50 times more damage each ground phase
the 1-50 only says it will be awhile before you are moved but the firepower or ratio of damage is very telling

I am not sure but I think the (+) and (-) have effects on firepower and I have found that disruption/disabled squads not to contribute

Although you are not getting an experience (+) .. I am finding that the Allies are not getting a leadership bonus with the HQ there to be very interesting ..

Your opponent is not coordinating bombardment / air ground attacks with his attacks given the current ratio of damage and in particular disruption it is going to take some creative action to move your forces ..
A flock of dive bombers and BB attacks before a ground attack .. although the results might not be very stunning the number of disrupted squads might make a huge difference ..

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Although you are not getting an experience (+) .. I am finding that the Allies are not getting a leadership bonus with the HQ there to be very interesting ..

I'm thinking one of a two reasons:

1. The III US Amphibious corps is heavily disrupted and thus unable to "lend" support or leadership.
2. The III US Amphibious corps is not preparing for Tinian and therefore has limited contributions for this particular fight.

Remember the AGC that got wasted earlier in the scenario? It would be great to know which HQ unit was on board, where it was prepping, and whether any remnant could be salvaged for the campaign's final stages.

[Chickenboy]

Justus2,

Why don't your Tinian units have a preparation bonus over the invaders? What are their preparation orders and % prep?

[Justus2]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

AV is an interesting stat to track .. I think it tells you a lot about the state of the force. For example, the odds going down to 1-2
and no change in force composition tells me he has lots of disrupted squads ...

Firepower is a far more interesting stat to be aware of I think ....It is possible to have 1-50 odds but take 50 times more damage each ground phase
the 1-50 only says it will be awhile before you are moved but the firepower or ratio of damage is very telling

I am not sure but I think the (+) and (-) have effects on firepower and I have found that disruption/disabled squads not to contribute

Although you are not getting an experience (+) .. I am finding that the Allies are not getting a leadership bonus with the HQ there to be very interesting ..

Your opponent is not coordinating bombardment / air ground attacks with his attacks given the current ratio of damage and in particular disruption it is going to take some creative action to move your forces ..
A flock of dive bombers and BB attacks before a ground attack .. although the results might not be very stunning the number of disrupted squads might make a huge difference ..

Crackaces,

One of my big learning curves this game has been firepower vs AV. I've previously only played early war (Guadalcanal scenario, or first few months of a campaign until I restart), so the firepower difference wasn't so severe. But how do you 'track' firepower? I am starting to get a better feel, obviously tank units have lots of firepower, and I understand Marines are rated higher, but I don't know a good way to measure it or even estimate.

[Justus2]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Although you are not getting an experience (+) .. I am finding that the Allies are not getting a leadership bonus with the HQ there to be very interesting ..

I'm thinking one of a two reasons:

1. The III US Amphibious corps is heavily disrupted and thus unable to "lend" support or leadership.
2. The III US Amphibious corps is not preparing for Tinian and therefore has limited contributions for this particular fight.

Remember the AGC that got wasted earlier in the scenario? It would be great to know which HQ unit was on board, where it was prepping, and whether any remnant could be salvaged for the campaign's final stages.

There were actually two AGCs in the scenario, I sunk both - one at Wake, and one while landing at Tinian, so that may be affecting III Amphib, if it is only a remnant or heavily disrupted.

[Justus2]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Justus2,

Why don't your Tinian units have a preparation bonus over the invaders? What are their preparation orders and % prep?

Here's the forces and their prep level, most are 100% prepped. The bulwark has been 14th ID, which started at Pelielu at 0%, but I started on turn 1 prepping for Tinian and shuttling it over, and it's now at 100% (~65 days). The lowest is 7th Const Bn, which I shipped over from Truk, and they are at 69%.

One thing I noticed when looking this up, the original defenders for Tinian were 50th Infantry and 56th Naval Guard, they were at 112 and 60 AV each, now down to 8 and 2 respectively. They have absorbed the brunt of the casualties, while 14th has remained very strong.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Justus2

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Although you are not getting an experience (+) .. I am finding that the Allies are not getting a leadership bonus with the HQ there to be very interesting ..

I'm thinking one of a two reasons:

1. The III US Amphibious corps is heavily disrupted and thus unable to "lend" support or leadership.
2. The III US Amphibious corps is not preparing for Tinian and therefore has limited contributions for this particular fight.

Remember the AGC that got wasted earlier in the scenario? It would be great to know which HQ unit was on board, where it was prepping, and whether any remnant could be salvaged for the campaign's final stages.

There were actually two AGCs in the scenario, I sunk both - one at Wake, and one while landing at Tinian, so that may be affecting III Amphib, if it is only a remnant or heavily disrupted.

That makes sense ... I think this scenario depends on the HQ advantage to overwhelm the defensive advantages ...
One thought .. I think the HQ bonus is just that a bonus .. so the multiplier happens after all the firepower/AV are calculated? rather than multiply the base numbers then calculate reduction? ....BODMAS then might also play a huge factor here ..
The US units appear to be quite disrupted/disabled in the above picture given the AV shown

[Chickenboy]

Justus2,

It is possible that the USIII Amphibious corps is prepped for Saipan and that it is "in range" of that island and thus able to lend its 'support' from Tinian. That may be a consideration for when (if?) he plans on throwing the kitchen sink at Saipan shortly.

Does anyone know the range of this corps HQ?

[Justus2]

It's possible if he switched prep, they are adjacent so even range 1 would reach. III US starts the scenario 70% prepped for Guam, that's a 2-hex distance from Tinian so I don't think it would help if he landed at Guam.

[Justus2]

27 JULY

Chalk up another one for my mini-subs! Ha-29 puts a torp in the damaged APA Biddle. But they’re not all successful, as Ha-31 finds out. [:(]

The last few turns, I’ve tried using my Irvings on night attacks, with no hits. I don’t have much experience w/night ops, so I don’t know if I should expect much success or not. I do have a couple floats flying night search, and one squadron of Irvings flying escort (he has been using his F6F-3N Hellcats at night). I have at least been getting engagements the last couple days, I was hoping even with their small 60kg bombs I could hit some of the transports. Any advice? [&:]

[Justus2]

I’ve mentioned the TFs near Truk the last couple days, now I am more convinced Al’s trying to set a trap. As you can see below, he has a small TF showing as a couple APDs adjacent to Truk, with a big CVTF 3 hexes further east. I switched the handful of Betties and Frances left there to search, so no one takes the bait. [8D]

The CVs are not striking the port, I’m guessing they are on Naval attack, but I’ve moved all the non-damaged shipping out. His Liberators continue to trickle in, my fighters have been worn down but still get 1 or 2 a turn.

[Justus2]

KB is reorganized, but you can see there’s still a hodge-podge of aircraft squadrons on the remaining functional carriers. I have about a dozen Sen Bakus still on HIYO that can join SHOKAKU after HIYO docks at Iwo. I’ve added a couple more DDs to the escort group, I plan to keep them mobile between Iwo and Marcus for a few more days, hoping to spot an opportunity at sea.

Al must have realized the disruption issues he is having, as both Tinian and Pagan switch to bombardments for this turn. Unfortunately, the continual landings at Tinian keep triggering my forces to bombard, and I lose about 100 casualties each time to counterbattery. [:(] However, forts are now at 98% to Level 3, so hopefully next turn they will upgrade.

Surprisingly, I still have two fast BBs (Kongo and Haruna) stashed at Iwo as well, fully loaded, that have never seen action. I had been holding them back to interfere with a landing, or maybe for a bombardment when Pagan fell to keep the airfield out of action, but not sure that is going to be relevant even when it does fall now.

[Chickenboy]

You may want to get that sixth air group off of your carrier (lower left image-the Zuikaku), as >5 air groups on board will likely bollocks up your CV deck management. Don't have my manual handy, but I believe that this is a hard-coded limitation of airgroup numbers on board CVs.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

You may want to get that sixth air group off of your carrier (lower left image-the Zuikaku), as >5 air groups on board will likely bollocks up your CV deck management. Don't have my manual handy, but I believe that this is a hard-coded limitation of airgroup numbers on board CVs.

Yes, it's 5.

Six squadrons = no flight ops.

[Justus2]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

You may want to get that sixth air group off of your carrier (lower left image-the Zuikaku), as >5 air groups on board will likely bollocks up your CV deck management. Don't have my manual handy, but I believe that this is a hard-coded limitation of airgroup numbers on board CVs.

Yes, it's 5.

Six squadrons = no flight ops.

I wondered about that, I thought I remembered that limit. I know when I was trying to transfer the squadrons around, those with five were listed in red. But I moved a squadron off Zuikaku (missing the fact it left a single damaged one behind), and it let me transfer a new one in. I didn't realize it was still there until I started the screenshots, and since it let me do the transfers I wondered if it wasn't counting the fragment. I will fix it this turn.