Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspite1 (J) vs AllenK (A)

[warspite1]

CVL-CVE-CS Unit Resize Plan

2. Select the Size 9 Kate unit, click the "No resize allowed" text once (changes to "Resize to fit ship")

3. Disband the Air Combat TF, look at the Kate unit and you'll see the size has changed to "12"

[warspite1]

CVL-CVE-CS Unit Resize Plan

4. Once again create the Air Combat TF containing only CVL Zuiho (undocked) and transfer the now-Size 12 Kate unit to Hiroshima, add 18 Veteran Pilots, set unit to Train: 100-Naval Attack, Alt: 8K, Range: 0

(Note 1: You have to create the TF before transferring an air unit to the base, otherwise all planes are damaged. Note 2: The reason we performed the partial re-size (to 12) is so we can add new pilots right away, which was not possible when it was still at Size 9).

[warspite1]

CVL-CVE-CS Unit Resize Plan

"....add 18 Veteran Pilots,"

Something appears to have gone awry here. The instructions were to get 18 veteran pilots. As can be seen above the options appeared to be:

Get New Pilot
Get 4 Pilots
Request Veteran

There is also a From button (which I didn't touch).

I'm not sure what I clicked on but I seem to have ended up with 16 pilots - not 18 and these are not veterans - four and very low experience levels. It's annoying that I can't recall what I clicked on to get where I did - but does anyone know what I should have done to follow Kull's instructions and obtained 18 veteran pilots?

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
I'm not sure what I clicked on but I seem to have ended up with 16 pilots - not 18 and these are not veterans - four and very low experience levels. It's annoying that I can't recall what I clicked on to get where I did - but does anyone know what I should have done to follow Kull's instructions and obtained 18 veteran pilots?

Somewhere down the Kull's list there can be another IJNAF airgroup with the remark "send all veteran pilots to reserve"

[BBfanboy]

warspite1: ... transfer the now-Size 12 Kate unit to Hiroshima, add 18 Veteran Pilots, set unit to Train: 100-Naval Attack, Alt: 8K, Range: 0

The altitude is not optimal in my book. Unless someone can tell me why 8K is needed during a training mission, I suggest that 1K is the best altitude to get both the NavT skill training and Defensive skill, which accumulates much faster at low altitude. 100 feet is best for Defensive training but that height will change the skill training to Strafe instead of NavT, so it is not viable.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Kull is certainly entitled to his opinion, but my opinion is that Chitose and Chiyoda form a badly needed supplement to KB at this stage of the game. Gaming up your float plane groups is something for a couple months from now when you have a surplus of decent float planes in the pools. No reason at all one of these fine CS cruisers can't be helping your sharpest tool's schwerpunkt.

warspite1

And just to be clear, I am not necessarily favouring Kull's opinion over others given here (as has been shown above). I am using Kull's spreadsheet in order to provide some structure to the first Japanese turn - which frankly would be almost impossible without - but amending in light of advice received.

Using Chitose and Chiyoda with the KB is not something I would have even considered for a second without the comments here - but I understand the merits.

Aye. I don't want to complicate matters further, but I will. [:)] When you get "Rufe" float fighters, circa April 1942, these can replace existing float scout planes on the CS ships and further supplement your KB's CAP capabilities. So there's another benefit of using them pre-CVL conversion too. But you don't have these yet, so naval search will be their raison d'etre.

[rustysi]

I'm not sure what I clicked on but I seem to have ended up with 16 pilots - not 18 and these are not veterans - four and very low experience levels. It's annoying that I can't recall what I clicked on to get where I did - but does anyone know what I should have done to follow Kull's instructions and obtained 18 veteran pilots?

I can only say that 99% of the time I select my pilots manually. Oh, and do a save right before in case you mess up.[:D]

Look at the top image of post 222. Middle left you'll see three 'radio' buttons. Select the one that says, 'Request Veteran'. This will take you to your reserve pools. The first one that comes up is 'Group', you don't want this one (normally). Click on it (its yellow and anything yellow is something you could 'drill down' on), it'll change to 'Reserve' and you may select your pilots from here or click the name again and go to the 'TRACOM' and select pilots. You do this be clicking on the pilots name. There will be a 'transit delay' before the pilot joins the new unit.

Edit:BTW you only have 16 pilots because you can only get 1/3 more pilots above the size of the group. IOW, group size = 12 + 1/3 = 4 more =16.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

CVL-CVE-CS Unit Resize Plan

"....add 18 Veteran Pilots,"

Something appears to have gone awry here. The instructions were to get 18 veteran pilots. As can be seen above the options appeared to be:

Get New Pilot
Get 4 Pilots
Request Veteran

There is also a From button (which I didn't touch).

I'm not sure what I clicked on but I seem to have ended up with 16 pilots - not 18 and these are not veterans - four and very low experience levels. It's annoying that I can't recall what I clicked on to get where I did - but does anyone know what I should have done to follow Kull's instructions and obtained 18 veteran pilots?

These 16 pilots are the pilots currently in the Kate group aboard Zuiho. The unit is currently full of pilots-it's maxed out. You can't add 18 more pilots to it. Per your second image of post #222, the 'Get New Pilot' button is greyed out, as is the "Request Veteran" button.

You will need to 'dump' these pilots into the reserve pools before you can replace them with other pilots. I'm not sure what Kull's methodology is referring to here.

Lastly, you have 'sorted' the pilot table by "Exp" rating. I find that the least helpful header to sort out CV pilots. Kate pilots should be preferentially sorted out by NavT rating primary and NavB rating secondarily. You have some serviceable torpedo plane pilots in there that could be useful in their current position. I'd get rid of Oyama, Nagano, Fujiwara and Asada for sure-they're pretty green.

[rustysi]

TBH, I'm not even sure what Kull's motivation is in this instance. My CVL's are normally an inherent part of my KB-lite in the early going. My group sizes are simple, 21 fighters, 9 TB's. Why? This CVL carries 18 torps and a group of 9 means two full strikes with torps. KISS (keep it simple silly)!!!![:D]

[rustysi]

Regarding the immediate use of the CS ships, I'd get the Mizuho to do your floatplane resizing.

Limitation here is that its only a 20 capacity vessel, I prefer the 24 capacity Chitose and/or Chiyoda.

Okay so I will need to look at the CS next

These little buggers are IMHO some of the most useful and versatile vessels in the early Japanese arsenal.

Uses:

Resize, search, ASW, CAP, conversion.

Yes, I said CAP. I sometimes use Pete's as ersatz fighters. Of course you wouldn't do this if real fighters were in range, but transfer them to a port and use them to help cover things while you resize onboard the CS or some such.

[rustysi]

Oh, and I said ASW above as well. Its not just for the CS's either. All my 'ship divisions' train in two things WRT their float planes. Search, which at game start is pretty much accomplished, and ASW. When at sea one BB, or CA runs search while at least one other in the TF runs ASW with its float planes.

[rustysi]

Aye. I don't want to complicate matters further, but I will. When you get "Rufe" float fighters, circa April 1942, these can replace existing float scout planes on the CS ships and further supplement your KB's CAP capabilities. So there's another benefit of using them pre-CVL conversion too. But you don't have these yet, so naval search will be their raison d'etre.

To this I'd like to add that some of these 'Rufe' units are limited to 9 aircraft, perfect for using your AV's (capacity 9) as ersatz carriers. Of course in 'low traffic', low threat areas.[;)]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Regarding the immediate use of the CS ships, I'd get the Mizuho to do your floatplane resizing.

Limitation here is that its only a 20 capacity vessel, I prefer the 24 capacity Chitose and/or Chiyoda.

Moot point. Early war Jake pools (and other float plane pools for that matter) are smallish. If you use up your pools during the resizing process, you'll strip them from front line replacements. Rather than disagree about whether 20 or 24 float planes is the optimal resizing size, I'd rather say-categorically-that resizing planes in this manner on turn one is way too early.

When the time comes to resize, I agree with the use of Mizuho in this capacity. Chitose / Chiyoda can operate with KB / mKB and not slow them down too much. That capability far exceeds the benefits of an additional 4 plane float training group.

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Regarding the immediate use of the CS ships, I'd get the Mizuho to do your floatplane resizing.

Limitation here is that its only a 20 capacity vessel, I prefer the 24 capacity Chitose and/or Chiyoda.

Moot point. Early war Jake pools (and other float plane pools for that matter) are smallish. If you use up your pools during the resizing process, you'll strip them from front line replacements. Rather than disagree about whether 20 or 24 float planes is the optimal resizing size, I'd rather say-categorically-that resizing planes in this manner on turn one is way too early.

When the time comes to resize, I agree with the use of Mizuho in this capacity. Chitose / Chiyoda can operate with KB / mKB and not slow them down too much. That capability far exceeds the benefits of an additional 4 plane float training group.

I resize all, right from day one. Doesn't mean I attempt to fill them all. I just put most of them right back on their vessels with the few floats they have and use them normally. They're very useful in their intended function early in the game, even those one plane units on Japanese CL's.

While CS's are busy resizing I train up their groups as best as possible.

[rustysi]

That capability far exceeds the benefits of an additional 4 plane float training group.

They're far from training groups, they become my 'eyes' by the end of '42.

[rustysi]

Early war Jake pools (and other float plane pools for that matter) are smallish.

I use anything and everything in order to train these guys up, including excess Glens. Yup, I build them out until their engine pool is empty. Jake's go to 90/month production. So far non-stop into late Mar '43. Only aircraft I have that I have done this with.

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Moot point. Early war Jake pools (and other float plane pools for that matter) are smallish. If you use up your pools during the resizing process, you'll strip them from front line replacements. Rather than disagree about whether 20 or 24 float planes is the optimal resizing size, I'd rather say-categorically-that resizing planes in this manner on turn one is way too early.

You don't need to fill the resized training FP groups with airframes right away. Active duty gets the priority of course. But training would still commence even with 0-1-2 airframes per 24 sized group albeit slower. There are readily available starting pools of obsolete engines to gradually produce training airframes from.
And yes, resizing better be done early cause, as you rightly noted, CS-es are valuable scouting platforms afterwards

[Zorch]

It's been 15 posts since Warspite posted - think we should let him have a word in his own AAR?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

It's been 15 posts since Warspite posted - think we should let him have a word in his own AAR?

Now it's 16. [:'(]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Zorch

It's been 15 posts since Warspite posted - think we should let him have a word in his own AAR?

Now it's 16. [:'(]

(17) But I thought 'newbies' had to wait until the rest of us posted first?