A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG

[AlbertN]

T72 - Fuel Storage

As Stamb pointed out above, it appears that there is a lower treshold that the Axis cannot drop under.

Besides the VPs of Krasnodar and Maikop this makes the whole Caucasus campaign entirely redundant - and I believe massively unhealthy for the game.

The German front would be definitely stronger if the digging in was around the Don River Bend, and across the Kerch Peninsula. (I do not think even 3 Guard Corps can get across there if there are well dug in German defenders of non regimental size - if I've interpretated a ferry crossing right - it should have massive penalties at least).

Alas I feel it tends to be late for these major changes since otherwise it seems the Axis fuel simply smokes ever so quickly and in exceedingly fashion. It was a matter of fine tuning the equations, set operational tempo, etcetera.

In some cases folks define WW2 the first Oil War.

So technically I can stay put and idle OR operate all out with my whole armoured and motorized assets, I'll be good.

I hope at some point there will be a major overhaul there in the department. But I deeply doubt that will happen.

I repeat without the 'Oil Carrot' there will be relatively little reason to go in Caucasus except VPs.
But at this stage it was better to try to smoke Stalingrad 70 T34 a turn factory...

Every time I touch this topic I feel bitter and disappointed.

Stuff to do in real so taking a break from the pc.

[AlbertN]

T72 - Repairing Test

Now - I assume I overloaded it with construction units but I wish to see if there is a more meaningful progress made past the 1% in a single turn with 4-5 worker battallions AND priority repair (not that there is much else to prioritize over right now BUT it was there since the past...).

One was already there, the 105th, due to the Priority Repairs. I am not sure if the system will see already 4 others and do not issue the 5th during next logistic phase.

This may be meaningless for OIL due to the fact Oil is redundant right now as ascertained above, but it can come quite handy to know if I can overload with construction battallions a bombed city in Germany to accelerate the repairs of manpower / weapon / armament factories.

Right now I've spead around an amount of construction companies in the TBs because they were overloaded in some.

[AlbertN]

T72 - Heavy Mud hinders operations...

I thought to be able to cherrypick some targets but it was not the case. I am not saying I've got two bloodied noses there at all but I was convinced to be able to shove away the Soviets...

The single division is one that has abysmal morale (Red label one!) and that for some reason MSAG keeps sending forward. I feel he may prefer I train up forces (and fatigue them) on that target than attacking other troops closeby?

Leningrad - it seems I've to wait for proper freezing snow before to furthen operations there if the depleted defenders can still intimidate my attackers to stop an attack at distance.

On the good notion, it should be joy if it works the same when a German unready division or so will be able to stop 3 Guard Corps or the like later on, in heavy mud!

[Stamb]

About repairment speed https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5109572.
Lets compare with your result

[AlbertN]

T73 - Snow arrives

The Luftwaffe has been grounded for the time being except the port interdiction operation already announced, and bombers made their way ... well I've learnt of pilots and reserve stuff so ... I am not sure if the Luftwaffe can work that way but I've sent bombers around Frankfurt and Berlin. Supposedly they can simply feed their own supply at the NSS.

That should lighten up the requirements of Freight at the frontlines, I assume.

And due to the inactivity of the previous turn I started with military operations.

All successes except a preliminary stalemate within the Leningrad perimeter. For this turn no Air Supply came into Leningrad and it makes me wonder why.
Is it a courtesy from the opponent? Have the flak guns damaged so many of their planes that there are not enough? Are they merely resting for one turn? Is the internal depot depleted of supply and there is a need of 'less mouths' to be fed?

Ultimately as the system is binary, all the perimeter except THE one and only VP-Leningrad hex can fall without me netting a single VP out of it.

Then we've the 'Eastern Perimeter' - MSAG keeps pushing forward troops to fill gaps, including pretty weak formations. That keep entering back the same hexes. I assume he fears infiltration from my end; but I am also quite content with a persistant inflicting some losses and supposedly keeping my divisions there trained up.
The airfield system allows me to keep them decently supplied.

[AlbertN]

T73 - Moscow Zone stalemates

The Soviets attacked during their turn - and I realized something I was amiss. The weather changes between turns it seems.

I am 100% sure I had mud all over the place and the Soviets attack me with Light Snow / Snowfall. That is a peculiar dynamic, the fact that weather is not mirrored between Axis turn and Soviet turn.

Nonetheless, Mister Model leads magistrally the defences and the Soviet attack is easily repelled.

Then Germans launch a heavy attack on a Guard Corps that advanced in a hex and only had 1 trench level... but the outcome is a phyrric victory for Germans, exhausting troops for a real no gain. Actually I think at that ratio, Germans have definitely lost the fight even if the Russians withdrew.

Considering the investment that I had there I expected a crushing victory!

[AlbertN]

T73 - Maikop Repairs / Southern Caucasus

Maikop despite having 5 Construction Units still had the OIL Factory repaired by 1%.
Thus confirming the issue already reported by other players.

Supposedly entirely insignificant anyhow as long as OIL has no impact on the game. (Which will require a complete fine tuning of oil consumption, production and whatnot going by the diagrams and cakes). Thus I do not see it happening anytime soon if at all for WITE2.

Probably I am one of the few players that prefer a game where 'map control of resources' is quite relevant, more so than the 'struggle against the system to bring freight from point A to point B'. Not that I disdain the latter - that is important as well.

Then - in the name of 'bring stuff from point A to point B' I did the naval interdiction as planned.
I assigned the Romanian fighters as escorts there - they half did the job but there were quite some losses so the Luftwaffe will make its appearance with fighters imminently.

I do not know how local depots are stocked up but if they live on 'get stuff, deliver stuff' ... well the rail does not get there! There is a single hex gap that is road, interrupting the railroad right there (at the bottom edge of the screenshot). To prolong these guys logistic line ... well I do not know how handy it may come, in general logistic strains are felt in time and not right off the bat.

[vilcum]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

I am 100% sure I had mud all over the place and the Soviets attack me with Light Snow / Snowfall. That is a peculiar dynamic, the fact that weather is not mirrored between Axis turn and Soviet turn.

Weather is mirrored..but (opposite to WITE1) it changes on SOVIET turn only

Manual pg43: The Weather changes before the Soviet phase (in other
words the German turn uses the same weather as the
preceding Soviet turn). This reflects the Soviet Union’s (and
its Allies) better weather forecasting capability.

[Stamb]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN
...
Probably I am one of the few players that prefer a game where 'map control of resources' is quite relevant, more so than the 'struggle against the system to bring freight from point A to point B'. Not that I disdain the latter - that is important as well.
...

You are not the only one

Also impressive result by a Model. True master of defense.

[AlbertN]

@Vilcum: Thanks for the explaination! I read the manual at spots pretty much so that notion eluded me!

T74 - Leningrad Air Supply

Here I made a new realization.

I thought the AA was at least damaging a helluva of airplanes if not destroying them but it's not the case either.

The 2 runs needed to air supply Leningrad report some losses - the AA usage is nothing new, German AA is useless and Soviet AA tends to be insane and that is factually proved. This is Fly Over though, I am not sure if it will change anything if I'll get forces adjacent to the Airfields that receive the supply.

The noose is closing in.

This was the only 'battle' the Soviets have had all across the front except some air recon at the Don River Bend sector where I had a relative pull back.

Everything is quiet and silent and I have to think and ponder - the Luftwaffe will launch a serie of air recon mission across most sectors of the front to ascertain where the enemy is having build ups.

The 'Graphs' reveal that roughly a thousands of AFVs have been stripped from other Theather Boxes on Soviet end, and I assume they're coming to the map.

I'll do another quick post before to go and run errands!

[AlbertN]

T74 - Leningrad Tango

I believe by now MSG determined to bunker in Leningrad proper and is slowly withdrawing in there.

I am of the opinion to ram into the 4-93 hex, there is a Rifle Corp in there along the fortified brigade.
From my perspective the difference is to have it surrender now or have it into Leningrad proper next turn.

From one side there is the eagerness to finish Leningrad, that will liberate an amount of troops for other duties; but at the same time to assault it will be an exceedinly bloodied affairs.

Memories of previous winter emerge, where then 11th Army arrival saved a sector from complete collapse and a disaster, after they finished the siege of Sebastopol.

Now off for errands for a while!

[AlbertN]

T74 - Romanian Uselessness

While the Luftwaffe fighters arrived and prepared the Romanians continued their aerial operations there.
Supposedly Romanian pilots are still quite decent right?

Well - alas ... not.

The grand plan was to have the Airfield bombed first to open the way to the naval bombers for the interdiction. The naval bombers being the only German assets flying there and recon.

The Romanian bombers arrived undisturbed there (first 2 attacks are in fact airfield recon) and then the Flak just butchers the Romanians that seem uncapable of scoring grand ground hits on the many planes parked there.

The (same?) Yaks then intercepts multiple times the naval missions, each and every time inflicting way more casualties to the Axis than what they suffer (Romanian Fighters + German navals) roughly at same fighter amount.

In the whole pattern of the Airfield bombing runs these 37mm obliterated the Romanian bomber squadrons.
At this stage I may as well retire them and have them join the Hungarians.

Q&A:

For what the Axis Minor Bombers are good for?
If you keep them on map they eat supplies like piglets. Send them to be a % value in the Russian Garrison. That's what they're good for.

[AlbertN]

T74 - Leningrad Assault failure

Maybe I should have used the siege guns - but in my experience they tend to be ambushed and destroyed somehow in urban warfare combat.

I used the new 'Heavy Assault Guns' but they proved pretty useless - lost 3 of them and they barely hit anything with a 0.25 HPE factor.

There were some heavy artillertie there, Skoda 305s and an amount of regular German heavy artilleries still in production, but the Russian 76mm were more effective than the huge calibers due to defender business (I still assume gargantuan payback when the Russian massed artilleries will be highly inefficient in turn by attacking but that is how it should be - they litterally had bazillion of guns and the game represent that in its quantitative model.)

Nonetheless, it seems that the Rifle Corps will get 'safely' into the Leningrad City Fort hex too. If that is what the Soviets want.

The surrendered bit was just a single Fortified Zone with some SUs attached.

Not happy at all as how this turn is going.

The air recon also failed to gather meaningful intel on where the massing up of Soviets is happening. So either eyes are blind in the snow or Recon has been insufficient or MSAG is massing up things decently behind the frontlines to not be caught and sighted.

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

T74 - Romanian Uselessness

...
For what the Axis Minor Bombers are good for?
If you keep them on map they eat supplies like piglets. Send them to be a % value in the Russian Garrison. That's what they're good for.

...

as ever, they are perfectly ok when bracketed with LW formations or on a quiet sector

they make no difference in the SU garrison box as that has no air requirements

[AlbertN]

T74 - Disfunctional Logistic System continued

Now, the more I play the more I am put off as I study and observe things more.

I was being told 'learn the logistic system' but there is nothing to be learned here when it's ... eluding any logical mechanic.

Here we see the Port of Tuapse - that was set for this Logistic Phase as Import Port, Priority 3.

In fact it received 3500ish Freight. Via RAIL and not via SEA from ... Genichesk.
Gernichesk is a Port, Set as Export Port, Priority 1, located at the eastern side of the Crimean Peninsula Ishtmus.

Issue nr.1 - I believe PORTS when short of ships to move freight, ferry via rail from EXPORT to IMPORT port.

Now of that 3500 Freight, I know about 1000 went north. At the Salks depot that is West of the Manich lake.

So I assume roughly 2500 Freight got distributed right since Tuapse has only 6 freight stored.

Now you'd expect that first of all the closemost units are served. But somehow the Romanian division in the mountains got an absolute of 0 freight this turn and has the amazing 12% of needed supplies in it... That is a 2 hex distance.

Even the 2 Romanian divisions that are 1 hex away, connected by average road (That I dare say in this game means there are asphalted roads at least) receive freight from a depot that is 10 hexes away. With the subsequent loss of trucks too.

So - if the units just closeby have not got that 2000-2500 freight that was hereby present, where that Freight has gone?

Should I check one by one the Supply Details of all the local units 'for science'?

This is not a matter of UI, it's just a matter of either bad design or bad coding (if the coding does not represent the intended design).

I am trying really HARD to learn logistics, but my mind works in a way. If I've stuff at 1 hex away, why to get stuff 10 hexes away?
I understand folks saying 'Oh Look there in the north your trucks will crash themselves through 10 hexes of heavy forest without roads' - but here we're speaking of being masochistic and inept.

Someone said the game is about to bring stuff from Point A to Point B. But there is little to do if then who needs to get the stuff goes and look for it at Point C.

I'll check now the other units BUT they have their own local depots (which I start to suspect to be useless) and since a long while by now I rely on Air Supply to 'spot' ferry freight on need. I had to fill the map with airfields specifically for this purpose and reason. To make up for shortcomings of the logistic disfunctional system.

[AlbertN]

@Loki:

Bombers do help with numbers in the Soviet Garrison.

The Ground component has up to a +10 % value from bombers. And with a 128 baseline of ground line troops, I can up to 12.8 of Bomber, out of the 5 that I've right now.

So I could even send some Luftwaffe bombers in there to round up numbers.

Bombers do not contribute at all to the Air % - which is indeed absent from the Soviet Garrison TB.

I do perfectly agree it is not exactly the 'most historical' use to have level bombers used against partisans, but that's how the game is and where the game pushes in terms of min-maxing the Axis Minor bomber units.

All of the Air Units can contribute some to the final total. Recon is 'Patrol', and Fighters and Bombers are all listed there. Heck I could even bring Night Fighters supposedly to help against the partisans.
___

Romanian bombers on a 'quiet' sector means they're just grounded anyhow and doing nothing.

If their bombing efficiency is non existant, and even the smallest of the calibers of the AA destroys them in abundant ratio - they've no place on the frontline for the amount of bombers Romania has.

Assuming the 1000 kg Romanian bomb takes the same freight as the German one. For instance.

But we have differing opinions on a few matters - and how to employ units often is a matter of opinion.

[AlbertN]

T74 - Logistic Disfunctions continued II

Here the next issue I stumbled in.

And I admit here I may be 'wrong' in how I do things.

There are 2 separate ordeals.

1) I've the Italian frontline that I wish to supply and the depots and railroad arrive right there but the freight these depots receive 100-200 freight each. (So that is where I've air supply lines for) despite being Priority 4 and the other closeby depot that you saw received almost 3500!

2) A Panzerkorp kept in a position deemed of 'flexibility' that I want to keep well fuelled and supplied (and soon refitted with some panzers too...). I thought 'let's set that depot to Priority 4 because I want to stock up freight to refit my panzers'.

Now what emerged here is that my Italian mountaineers decided to resupply from the Panzerkorp depots.

As you can see there is a HUGE distance in the middle of snows and rains and whatnot since the Panzerkorp is NORTH-WEST of ROSTOV. And the Italian Mountaineers are SOUTH of MAIKOP.

The system screams at me I cannot really have a reserve build up there unless I starve my Italian mountaineers (and they're already at 21% Supplies, far from even the low treshold of priority 1 or 2 in case I was to lower that. They're at Priority 3 atm).
So I expect even from Priority 1 they'd have gone scavenging something. At such distance that ... the 40% of the Freight they claimed, was lost on the way.

Now - I shall resupply right off the bat via Air Supply, as I do that each and every turn. Follow me in the process.

[AlbertN]

Supply Workabouts - Before Air Supply numbers:

[AlbertN]

Logistics and Air Supply - Continued

Now this is the follow up.

The Romanian Air Transport squadron has gone to Tuapse (You won't see it here).

2 'Stab' equipped deliberately with 4 Me323 each have brought stuff to Depot 12, previously entirely neglected by the logistic system as it is a 3 Priority depot. (And that is in the hex of the Sforzesca division).

Then 2 Italian squadrons have been used to ferry ulterior freight.

Noticed there is a -new- airfield there, north of the 2 Romanian units that I've put in show.
That airfield has just been placed (thus has 0% construction rate!) BUT it is fully useable as airfield to receive freight from Air Supply (but not to extract units from pockets). Is that an exploit? Probably it is (I am unsure if in an isolated pocket a new airfield otherwise can be brought).
But I do not feel remotely bad to use this type of 'exploit' or 'bug' - because the logistic system does not function and I've to make up for it somehow.

The 4th Romanian Division that was at 18% supply before the Air Supply ordeal was unable to somehow get enough supply.
Its supply situation there at the side. They got -3- Freight only by the depot where the Romanian HQ is...

Now as I can surgically replenish the supplies of ... units that are somehow not supplied but closeby to a rail system ... well I think a hand washes the other out there.

I'd rather have a real functioning logistic system AND that airbases become functional only when at ... some 50% of being built up?

Though I've discovered this airbase business only the previous turn, previously I was always waiting for them to be built up and thus 'lighted up' in green in the Air Supply interface.

Next the real problem is - I do air supply every single turn there, with the same squadrons since a while.
In a week of static position doing absolutely NOTHING in game terms there is a drop from 70-90% to 20-40% of Supply?
I understand troops must eat and all but to that extent?

Anyhow without air supply, these units would just be pretty much cannibalizing themselves in the current logistic system.

You can get 100 Freight, it is not taken. You can get 3500 freight, it is not taken and redirected.

The little supposed means to control and rein in freight do not work. The only thing that you know it works well is Air Supply (barring interceptions) because it is surgical.

At this stage the map will be gradually dotted of Airfields just for air supply spreading.

[AlbertN]

T74 - Dances in the Caucasus

Since OIL is factually not a problem, the Axis mobile forces took some plunging attack.

Yes it may be an issue with having it delivered here refined from Germany but that's another tale - that we just discussed!

So operations - that are more exciting than number crunching and to go through puzzles!

The Axis obtained swinging results here - freshly used Tigers took their first beating here. This was a hasty attack and I expected it to win, against a single and supposedly weak (seemingly weak too) Soviet division with little to no support! Though it followed up a deliberate attack that set it ... to retreat and with minimal losses.

I am not that bothered to lose Tigers though, first I've some in reserve, second with -1- click I can cut all the logistic crap to bring Tigers to the Front and relocate the SU into the OKH that can sit either in some mighty stocked depot or truly yours Berlin with its massive amount of Freight.