Rob vs. 2ndACR .. Divine intervention needed NIK mod 5.2

[Rob Brennan UK]

christ i really hope u didnt see that screen shot ! yikes ! .. PMed you

[Rob Brennan UK]

HEHE .. he says he didnt ..

anyway .. had 2 turns done before scotth headed off to work .. nice guy .

my last remaining base in borneo was hit badly . not a single wildebeest was left operational

Naval bombardment of Singkawang, at 25,57


Allied aircraft
no flights


Allied aircraft losses
Vildebeest IV: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CL Jintsu
CL Sendai
CA Kumano
CA Suzuya
CA Mogami


Allied ground losses:
224 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 10
Port hits 5
Port supply hits 11

i did however find another sub lurking between derby and koepang .. he must know im upto soemthing here by now .

ASW attack at 27,79

Japanese Ships
SS I-28, hits 8

Allied Ships
DD Van Ghent
DD Piet Hein
DD Banckert
DD Pope
DD Peary
DD Edsall
DD Bulmer
DD Barker


no majot hits but i suspect he's off home

I made a bit of a boo boo in china last 2 days .. his bombing of an a/f with me leaving replacements on and not moving the existing planes out .. lost 7 yesterday 3 more today

Day Air attack on Hengchow , at 45,37

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 27
Ki-21 Sally x 47

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 18 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
I-153c: 3 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 22

p.s hes a 7000ft hence the flak damages

A struggling dutch sub that was pumping water got hit in singapore harbour, looks very very bad

Day Air attack on Singapore , at 23,50

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 16
Ki-49 Helen x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49 Helen: 6 damaged

Allied Ships
SS KXV, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
28 casualties reported

Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1

However i did get a partial AK to singapore , by partial i mean she unloaded some at night got hit during the day but still survives to empty the last 200

Day Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 23,50

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 13
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 13

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Malda, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Tomorrow the LR fighter offensive begins , just one day .. then back home to india . if it works. AV support is now in the green.

106 hurricanes and 96 P40E's .. im expecting about 30 oscars .. 80 sonia and 10-20 lily's .. P40's at 11k .. hurris at 13k .. lilly is coming in at 8k .. so escort at 10k .. i should bounce them but the DB is a complete guess .. could be flying at 30k for all i know [:D]

fingers crossed

[Rob Brennan UK]

oops !

Ground combat at Manila

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 75044 troops, 388 guns, 146 vehicles

Defending force 61212 troops, 205 guns, 125 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 2)


Japanese ground losses:
6134 casualties reported [X(][&:][X(]
Guns lost 41
Vehicles lost 6

Allied ground losses:
524 casualties reported
Guns lost 7
Vehicles lost 2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Singapore

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 102426 troops, 757 guns, 103 vehicles

Defending force 51891 troops, 175 guns, 4 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 5)


Japanese ground losses:
1313 casualties reported
Guns lost 34
Vehicles lost 1

Allied ground losses:
731 casualties reported
Guns lost 9

[Rob Brennan UK]

I've ,made an offer to 2nd ACR about manila .. basically il move it all to clark field where its not prepped for and die there .. manilla is a game killer at present and i do want to continue. regardless of whether the japs sent enough in the 1st place ..

Given the timescale the dutch and brits in java have gotten good AA weapons now so java will be tough .. and hopefully timor will be too [;)]

[timtom]

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

I've ,made an offer to 2nd ACR about manila .. basically il move it all to clark field where its not prepped for and die there .. manilla is a game killer at present and i do want to continue. regardless of whether the japs sent enough in the 1st place ..

[&:]

[Ron Saueracker]

I would not give up Manila. The Allies have to put up with super easy retreats etc, nice to see a flaw work for the Allies once in a while.

[Rob Brennan UK]

maybe your both right. tim tom and ron , however i am quite proud of my manilla defence. I have a feeling that 2ndACR will give up. and i am so sick an tired of japanese surrneders i am willing to suicide both manilla and singapore to actually get a gam post june 42 ..

i have played 4 allied Pbems so far .. none have ever gone beyond dec 42 .. its a bit disheartoning

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

maybe your both right. tim tom and ron , however i am quite proud of my manilla defence. I have a feeling that 2ndACR will give up. and i am so sick an tired of japanese surrneders i am willing to suicide both manilla and singapore to actually get a gam post june 42 ..

i have played 4 allied Pbems so far .. none have ever gone beyond dec 42 .. its a bit disheartoning

Scott doesn't give up Rob. We halted ours over an overwhelming accumulation of bug problems but it was mutual. He's just going through a rough patch at the moment I believe and it is taking away his game time and desire.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

maybe your both right. tim tom and ron , however i am quite proud of my manilla defence. I have a feeling that 2ndACR will give up. and i am so sick an tired of japanese surrneders i am willing to suicide both manilla and singapore to actually get a gam post june 42 ..

i have played 4 allied Pbems so far .. none have ever gone beyond dec 42 .. its a bit disheartoning

I think it is time to post the names of folks who bail without a good reason. Loosing a battle or not being on the offensive anymore is not a good reason. Might save a bit of heartache.

[2ndACR]

I will never give up the game willingly. I am more frustrated is all. I sent 5 divisions and 2 Brigades to the PI to take Manila. The out of base defense near Naga basically destroyed 3 divisions (left them at half strength). The Manila stubbornness has devestated the other 2 Divisions and 2 Brigades. Along with the other 3 weakened divsions.

I will always try and continue a game. Time is rough right now,.

[Rob Brennan UK]

Thats good to hear .. yeah Ron maybe your right about a name and shame list. I just dont like the idea of basically rubbishing someones name in the community. not to mention a law suit for libel [:D]

We have agreed on the manilla withdrawl for the sake of a fun game. the units are still badly broken and will take a long time for japan to rebuild. So im not expecting japan to be rampant much more. He's got to take the DEI and its almost time for the RAF to get some new toys ( i.e upgrading a/c in may).

Back to the game.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 04/19/42

Sub chasing off Timor again

ASW attack at 27,79

Japanese Ships
SS I-124, hits 2, on fire

Allied Ships
DD Van Ghent
DD Piet Hein
DD Banckert
DD Pope
DD Peary
DD Edsall
DD Bulmer
DD Barker

Prety quiet day ..

The china trap failed to get any results other than a lot of damaged allied a/c .. stood down to regular cap and when fixed, back to india . The supply drain where they are based in noticable.

[Nikademus]

It sounds like he needs to do what Speedy did...bomb the bejeevus out of Manila and destroy her supply base....its 5/42 in our game and he's on the verge of taking manila, and this despite a 4.0 game where Manila was (before supply ran out) a "flak city" Actually i think he would have taken it by now except that he's been overcautious....breaking off his deliberate attacks to stage a few more weeks of air bombardment, then delib attacking again. (He's been getting 1:1 modified odds on fort 0.....just one little numeral from taking the place) yet he's still been unwilling to shock attack.

Speaking of Manila in general...i supose its yet another discussion point for future house rules. My game with Speedy was for myself my first attempt to use Manila as a retreat point vs. Bataan as i wanted to see what the urban combat bonus would do for the defense. Well it certain does help! The matter in question was that historically MacArthur was unwilling to make Manila his prized jewel, a "Stalingrad" of the Far East and declared it an open city rather than fight building to building.

[tiger111]

Hi Rob

Reading the discussion about thr Manilla situation (and Singapore) makes me think whether this is as a result of good/not so good play or rather a comparison on game situations against what people think ought to happen based on historical "reality".
Could it be that if McArthur chose to defend Manills instead of the "fortress" of Bataan then history might have changed and reflected your game situation.
Anyway is this a fault of WITP or are we just seeing the playout of an alternative and accuarate military situation.
There can`t really be any definitive and subjective comparison between what WITP players achieve versus perceived historical truths assuming that the game engine portrays a realistic consequence of military actions. Anybody with any military knowledge or experience must know that what should happen rarely does.
In conclusion the question is does WITP portray war in a manner that is acceptable to the majority of those who play the game? I for one who got UV when it first came out and WITP later on think its great.

[tiger111]

AND A ANOTHER THING

I dont think that such an experienced player ( or anybodt else playing the Japanese ) should give up so early in the game. It`s true that as time goes by it gets a lot harder -obviosly, but there is always a chance to do the Allies a lot of harm.
Are there any stories of people playing Japan who have scored strategic victories after 1943? If so lets take heart in that and let it promote fun gaming !!!

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

I will never give up the game willingly. I am more frustrated is all. I sent 5 divisions and 2 Brigades to the PI to take Manila. The out of base defense near Naga basically destroyed 3 divisions (left them at half strength). The Manila stubbornness has devestated the other 2 Divisions and 2 Brigades. Along with the other 3 weakened divsions.

I will always try and continue a game. Time is rough right now,.

It was the out of base issue, aha. Usually happens if there is no retreat path.

[Nikademus]

from the sounds of it i'd say its mainly game play based since in my game, there has been no devestation of LCU units on my opponent's side. He's been good about first softening up the target before attacking. When you get to the kind of numbers seen in a situation like a Singapore, Manila or Bataan, supply becomes the critical issue. The land model is designed for attritional combat and rarely will you see specatactular results in a few days time. The real life siege of of the PI's lasted from 12/41 to 5/42 though this was due in part to the Japanese underestimating the force levels that they needed. Speedy has been patient and was content to lay siege to my base, slowly building up his numbers while bombing first from high alt then lowering the alt as my supply withered. (i didn't even attempt to run in supply to it. The approaches were pretty well covered by LBA)

Singapore....I've seen so many variable results whether stock or a mod that its definately player impacted the most. I've taken it quickly, and i've successfully defended it as well.

[spence]

The Japanese certainly made a good fight of it in Manila when their turn came in 1945. Of course they totally dismissed as irrelevant the effect the protracted fight would have on the civilian population which is something only an "e-MacArthur" could get away with as the Allies.

[Rob Brennan UK]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

It sounds like he needs to do what Speedy did...bomb the bejeevus out of Manila and destroy her supply base....its 5/42 in our game and he's on the verge of taking manila, and this despite a 4.0 game where Manila was (before supply ran out) a "flak city" Actually i think he would have taken it by now except that he's been overcautious....breaking off his deliberate attacks to stage a few more weeks of air bombardment, then delib attacking again. (He's been getting 1:1 modified odds on fort 0.....just one little numeral from taking the place) yet he's still been unwilling to shock attack.

Speaking of Manila in general...i supose its yet another discussion point for future house rules. My game with Speedy was for myself my first attempt to use Manila as a retreat point vs. Bataan as i wanted to see what the urban combat bonus would do for the defense. Well it certain does help! The matter in question was that historically MacArthur was unwilling to make Manila his prized jewel, a "Stalingrad" of the Far East and declared it an open city rather than fight building to building.

This is my 1st try for a manilla defence, Ive always gone down the batann route for historical play . Manilla really is stalingrad in this game.

I havnt been posting it but 2NDACR has been bombing the bejeesus out of manilla . port/af/troops .. lots of a/c arriving daily. so he';s done everything right. I think the urban bonus makes the place v v tough. expecially when supply dries up the 4x urban bonus completely cancels the 25% str due to supply shortage.

[Rob Brennan UK]

ORIGINAL: Augustas

AND A ANOTHER THING

I dont think that such an experienced player ( or anybodt else playing the Japanese ) should give up so early in the game. It`s true that as time goes by it gets a lot harder -obviosly, but there is always a chance to do the Allies a lot of harm.
Are there any stories of people playing Japan who have scored strategic victories after 1943? If so lets take heart in that and let it promote fun gaming !!!

Hi Augustus [;)]

Good point on both posts. i however agree with Ron in that out of base combat is a bit bust. troops out of base automatically get fort bonus free and faster then building them in base. Especially woods with thier x2 defence bonus makes this a very tough target the same situation applies in china between canton and wuuchow. that wooded hex can basically hold the japs in the south indefinately. The only down side to out of base forts is thay they all go at once and a retreat is forced rather than reducing the fort levels. So its a tricy situation balancing the troops needed for defence. Naga woods a 1st time for me and if he hadnt invaded lamon bay ( threatening to cut off naga) i wouldn't have retreated back here . BUT i need room behind the lines to conduct an orderley retreat from Clarke ).

From a game rules perspective it worked out very well and im pleased with the result. From a historical and game fun perspective it's a disaster for japan. Japan has a limited number of troops available for the PI. and if the allies can blunt the lot forcing japan to divert forces from singapore then thats a-historical in the extreme.

Thanks for posting

[Rob Brennan UK]

ORIGINAL: spence

The Japanese certainly made a good fight of it in Manila when their turn came in 1945. Of course they totally dismissed as irrelevant the effect the protracted fight would have on the civilian population which is something only an "e-MacArthur" could get away with as the Allies.

Hi spence ..

True .. in reverse im assuming manilla will be a b%^$H when i get back there. I'm coming to the conclusion that the PI should be played more historically rather than the manilla defence urban bonus. this is an odd situation where japan broke 3 divs in naga woods becouse of the out of hex combat issues.

anyway im playign the game for fun and frankly Scotty's done everthing right in both the PI and singapore ( although hes regretting not destroying my troops in the north when he had the chance). singapore will fall in the regular way . the forts are creaking and the japanese troops still quite strong. Its held so long because of the allied efforts to keep it in supply over the past few months .. It still has supply although its a bit low ( orange).. everything from single AK's to air transport and oil delivered early boosted the longevity of singapore immensely. the river assault rules are however an issue here .. there should be a bridgehead allowed once enough troops have crossed over.