FILE SET RHS 2.23 Released [Minor update]

[Aterpa]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I have not changed slots from CHS for merchant ships.

By the way: the questionable ship class slots have the correct ships classes in CHS 1.6 (newer, not yet released version I dont have access to to check)

[Aterpa]

Version 2.31:

- MLE Eijo (077) upgrades to slot 089 (empty)

[Skyros]

This may have been raised already and it could be the way you wanted it, but the aircraft manufacturing facilities at Melborne are researching King Cobras and B29s and Sydny is researching King Cobras. I also noticed that the base at lunga had already completed 2% toewards building a level 1 field.

THis looks awesome, keep it coming!

[Aterpa]

It seems that if you enter any device (e.g. AA gun) in a slot after a slot which contains a kind of radar (e.g. type 13) this device is treated as electronics device. (Can be seen on info screen in game.) Maybe this influences only the info in the detail screen, but maybe there is also an influence to the function of the device. In RHS this applies for example in the case of Yamato (503 and later upgrades) and Shinano (502). I suggest to use a radar device always as last device of a ship/aircraft/unit. This is the save way.

[DrewBlack]

Excellant mod... however all these updates making it inpossible to get past turn 3-4 as Allies... as for ever restarting to let updates take effect!!!!

Can i add i think you need an ammendment in the follwoing issue.

Allies start both scenarios with the abilitly to create 4 more PT boats.... have try tried this... U go 4 RUSSIAN PT boats!!!! is this an error???

Also have noticed on a lot of the Subs outa Manilla you get a weapon identified as a "SHORT GUN ANY" is this correct???

Thanks for the excellant MOds it is most appreciated,,,excellant!!!

Drew

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I have a slot problem - only one kind of Swordfish! Either we upgrade the Swordfish units to another plane, or they don't have torpedoes. I did that in one case.

Maybe I have found a solution for the slot problem.

Currently its just a theory (I stumbled accidentally over this) and needs some testing - but if it works it opens many interesting possibilities:

I'll use the Swordfish as example:

The equipment (weapons, electronics) is defined in the Air Group field/database. Normally one refreshes changed plane types etc. But if one gives (by entering this manually from the device list) an airgroup that used the Swordfish I with torpedoes a torpedo without refreshing it, this airgroup will keep torpedoes as equipment because the equipment data that are used by a given airgroup are read from the airgroup data and not from the plane data. This will allow us to give airgroups that enter the game with equipment that is different from the equipment that is normal for this plane this equipment (as long as it does not upgrade to another plane (upgrading an airgroup is database-wise a refreshment from another plane type). Thus we can have airgroups that basically use the same plane with different types of equipment as long as they have their original plane type....

Understood? Or do I have to explain this more?

[Aterpa]

Version 2.31:

- the Aoba (517-518) exchanges its type 21 radar for type 2 depth charges (weapon slot 10) in the 7/44 upgrade, correct?

[witpqs]

Sid,

I understand what you did in a recent update with aricraft pools at start of scenario. To recap, you stated that some planes which enter production later than 12/41 (sometimes much later) have a/c in the pool at senario start on purpose, due to the difficulty of managing accurately the number of aircraft produced and when they were produced.

A big problem you cited is that some a/c were produced in relatively small numbers (rather than many thousands). In those cases, turning on production at the availability date would result in slow and even production from then to the end of the scenario. As a result, squadrons that used the aircraft would be unable to upgrade or form until much later in the scenario than IRL, perhaps so late as to be irrelevant.

This is a big problem indeed, and justifies having a/c in pools before their availability date. For PBEM, a house rule to refrain from upgrading to the a/c before the appropriate date will suffice (the possibility of dishonest opponents is irrelevant in my opinion - terminate the game and find another). Against the AI the story is different. I ran a quick test to confirm. It seems the AI turns on upgrades for squadrons as a matter of course. On the Japanese side, the pools in question are so small that this should not matter.

On the Allied side, however, some pools are large and will result in early upgrades. There must be three conditions present for this to happen

1) adequate supply where the squadron is,

2) the 'future' a/c in question must be the next a/c in the squadron's upgrade path, and

3) an adequate number of the 'future' a/c in the pool (generally 2 x the size of the full squadron in question).

Because of 2) above, some of the erroneous upgrades will only take place later in the game, when a squadron finally upgrades the a/c model in its upgrade path that is just before the 'future' a/c. Those upgrades will still be early, but won't take place in 12/41.

One that will take place early is the Fulmar squadron on the British carrier that arrives in Karachi on about 12/9 or 12/10/1941. IIRC it is Indomitable. The AI immediately sets the Fulmar squadron to upgrade, and the next a/c in its path is the Corsair III/IV. There are 106 in the pool, so the upgrade will occur as soon as Indomitable puts into a port with sufficient supply (Karachi is too low on supply at start). This is just an example, there may be others.

As far as solutions go, it depends on what will work.

A) Leave as is. Considerations:
a) For PBEM it doesn't matter because players control upgrades and they can exercise restraint.
b) Against the Japanese AI, makes little or no difference.
c) Against the Allied AI, well - it's still the AI and therefore needs any help it can get.
This solution (leave as is) would be okay - less than perfect, but pretty good.

B) Change to the standard production model where either too many are produced so there are enough soon enough (but there will be way too many later) or the a/c model is produced too slowly (so slowly it might be irrelevant to the scenario). This is an undesirable solution.

C) Find out if the production model will allow for a brief (off-map) production run. Turn on production at the desired time, produce all of the necessary a/c in a short span of time (a month or two or three), then cease production. I will look into this. Frankly, I have little knowledge of how the production model works and no knowledge about how to manipulate it, so anyone out there who knows would be a great help. PRY might be a good source, I know he messed around with the stock scenarios. If it can be made to work this would be the best solution.

D) Solicit a coding change to accomplish C) above. This would be nice but if and when are both big questions.

E) Solicit a coding change to prevent use of a/c in the pool prior to their introduction date. This might mess up the use of early squadrons and small pools that were genuinely deployed before the large production run commenced (like the early P-38 sub-models). This solution is undesirable.

I'll let you know what I find out. Meanwhile, this is here in case you or anyone else reading has any other ideas about how to make this work.

[Hipper]

quote:By May 1942, HMS Illustrious was on operations against Vichy French forces in Diego Suarez Madagascar, and remained in the Indian Ocean from May 1942 until January 1943, where she undertook further operations against Madagascar in September 1942. She undertook a refit in the UK between February -June 1943 then returned to the Mediterranean between August-November 1943 where she took part in the Salerno landings in September 1943.

All of which I know, stipulate is true, agree with, and confirm. It says not a whit about her being in the Indian Ocean from 10 Dec 1941 and doing ferry duty from then until early May 1942. But unless you think that isn't true, she shows up in 12/41




ERR CID, Illustrious was not in the indian ocean untill may 42
Indominable was however and enters as you say above, By may 1942 there were 3 fleet carriers in the eastern fleet which only started reducing in size after midway !

[Aterpa]

ORIGINAL: DrewBlack
Can i add i think you need an ammendment in the follwoing issue.

Allies start both scenarios with the abilitly to create 4 more PT boats.... have try tried this... U go 4 RUSSIAN PT boats!!!! is this an error???

Reason for this could be the following:
In stock scenarios slots 6523-6922 have only (and a lot) PT boats. In RHS in this area (not quite, since one is in slot 6517) there are only 4 PT boats, exactly the 4 soviet PT boat that one gets. (The american PT boats are between 5015-5409 in RHS.)
I have this theory: If one PT boat is requested the programm looks into this slot range (~6523 - ~6922) and selects the next available (not already deployed) PT boat (it seems there is a check so it only selects PTs no others like AKs, which is good news). If this is correct than this is bad news, since in RHS there are only this exactly 4 soviet PT boat inside of the "PT boat range" -> no additional PT boat for the allied player beside the 4 soviet ones.

[Aterpa]

Maybe there is some similar problem with japanese barges, because one gets the 4 Thai sea trucks (812-815) as AGs and only them. (Stock AGs are between 1960-2104, RHS AGs are between 2880-2998.)

[el cid again]

Crititicim is not necessarily bad, I am open to criticism otherwise I could not do my work (I am research engineer, nanomechanics)

I agree. I more than agree: I will go farther: criticism is good; negative feedback is essential to the proper functioning, and improvement of any system, human organizational systems most of all. We may be on the same page.

And know that I am not in the least sensitive: it is said my skin is very thick. My question remains: what is the technical basis of your observation? What specific slots seem to have been moved - what is their function - and what do you believe belongs in them?

[el cid again]

I did the work and found the slot numbers with the wrong content and told you them already two times in this thread. I gave the numbers, wrote what is currently in the slots and gave an indication what should be in the slots.

What else do you demand?

As far as I know, I have reviewed and implemented everything you posted, where appropriate. I did not see any instance of a slot number associated with a wrong class due to upgrade issues. Possibly I am just getting old and senile and do not remember???

[el cid again]

Cid there are still some us and FAA squadrons organising in Tokyo at the start of the game

This appears to be some sort of default reporting for a unit with no assignment and no date of appearance (9999ed out). I have, in some cases, against my policy (of listing every unit even if unused, for other modders), deleted some of these units. I will take a look at your list.

[Aterpa]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

What specific slots seem to have been moved - what is their function - and what do you believe belongs in them?

here we go again:

ORIGINAL: Aterpa

Version 2.30:

In the slots that are used for upgrading large (japanese) freighters are wrong ship classes:

- upgrading AK to AE -> points to slot 092, currently AV Kamoi -> should be a kind of AE
- upgrading AK to AR -> points to slot 090, currently empty -> should be a kind of AR
- upgrading AK to AS -> points to slot 106, currently AS Rio de Janario -> may be ok (should it be Rio de Janeiro)?
- upgrading AK to AV -> points to slot 056, currently LSD Mayasan Maru -> should be a kind of AV
- upgrading AK to MLE -> points to slot 108, currently AO Sunosaki -> should be a kind of MLE

[el cid again]

Plus shame on you for putting Karachi et al in Pakistan which at the time was only a concept not yet a country

It is meant to be an indication of geography. Similarly, I used Amur Province even though it is technically Siberia. I also used Kamchatka, Sakhalin Island, and Central Asia, all also parts of Siberia - to help people know where things are.

I am a bit of an Indian nationalist, and I have a correspondent who is a former PM of India. I am aware of the politics of the period - and that Indian National Congress Party spent the war - almost to a man - in prison. Further that, at that time, Congress INCLUDED Muslims!

[el cid again]

By the way: the questionable ship class slots have the correct ships classes in CHS 1.6 (newer, not yet released version I dont have access to to check)

If you do not know the slot ID, can you tell me the class name(s). Time is an issue. Saves time to go right to the right place.

[Aterpa]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

By the way: the questionable ship class slots have the correct ships classes in CHS 1.6 (newer, not yet released version I dont have access to to check)

If you do not know the slot ID, can you tell me the class name(s). Time is an issue. Saves time to go right to the right place.

Ok, 4th time:

slot 092 -> should contain an AE type ship
slot 090 -> should contain an AR type ship
slot 106 -> should contain an AV type ship
slot 056 -> should contain an AS type ship
slot 108 -> should contain an MLE type ship

What specific ship class you put in this slots is your decicion (you have far more knowledge about japanese shipping than me) as long as the ship type (AE, AR, AV, AS, MLE) is correct it will work.

[el cid again]

Version 2.31:

- MLE Eijo (077) upgrades to slot 089 (empty)

This is something that is quite wrong - was that is. Eijo is a ML conversion of a tiny merchant class - a small wartime design - and it was actually listed twice - as was its sister - on the ship list (both as an ML and as a transport - nice to have a ship twice! much less sisters twice.) Further, the original listing was backwards - it had the MLE upgrading to the merchant - and not the other way around. [Now I admit you COULD strip the mine gear and weapons and convert it that way - but mechanically I don't think we want to do that.] However, the "reform" should be to have the ship not upgrade at all - or upgrade to itself - not point to an empty slot - and the merchant class should be able to upgrade to the MLE - with the default listing of names having only the two that did be MLEs.

[el cid again]

This may have been raised already and it could be the way you wanted it, but the aircraft manufacturing facilities at Melborne are researching King Cobras and B29s and Sydny is researching King Cobras. I also noticed that the base at lunga had already completed 2% toewards building a level 1 field.

I know nothing of this. Is there anything wrong with it?