OT - WWII quiz

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

1. But could Malta have survived with out Operation Torch?

2. You have to admit Malta was a major contributor to the control of the Mediterranean.

Warspite1

1. Yes - remember the Operation Stoneage convoy from Suez to Malta took place on 16th(?) November, helped by the victory at El-Alamein and the pushing west of Axis troops. I am not in anyway suggesting Torch was not important (it certainly was), but by late 1942 the Regia Marina had no fuel and Axis air forces in the Mediterranean were being gradually whittled down.

2. Interesting question - although I have recently read that this was not as vital as has traditionally been made out. I need to read more on this, but will start a discussion thread for anyone who is interested.

[Extraneous]

Pedestal
Operation Pedestal Re-supplying Malta Succeeded
Operation Bellows Furious launches 38 Spitfires to Malta
Operation Ascendant

Torch
Operation Train Furious launches 29x Spitfires to Malta
Operation Crupper
Operation Goalpost
Operation Brushwood
Operation Blackstone
Operation Terminal (Algiers, Algeria) Succeeded
Operation Reservist (Oran, Algeria) Failed

Perpetual
Operation Perpetual The Assault on Bougie and Djidjelli


Extra point question: Which Liberty Ship was part of a convoy and had the same name as an U.S. Attack Transport during Operation Torch?


Third set of clues

Only one other of the operations that have not been guessed failed.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Pedestal
Operation Pedestal Re-supplying Malta Succeeded
Operation Bellows Furious launches 38 Spitfires to Malta
Operation Ascendant

Torch
Operation Train Furious launches 29x Spitfires to Malta
Operation Crupper
Operation Goalpost
Operation Brushwood
Operation Blackstone
Operation Terminal (Algiers, Algeria) Succeeded
Operation Reservist (Oran, Algeria) Failed

Perpetual
Operation Perpetual The Assault on Bougie and Djidjelli


Extra point question: Which Liberty Ship was part of a convoy and had the same name as an U.S. Attack Transport during Operation Torch?


Third set of clues

Only one other of the operations that have not been guessed failed.

Warspite1

Well my knowledge of Torch is somewhat limited - the only one I knew has already been guessed - Operation Reservist was a gallant failure (Captain F Peters won the V.C in this action [&o]).

Operation Bellows and Operation Train both succeeded, courtesy of HMS Furious IIRC. Operation Ascendant is really annoying me. I cannot recall another subsidiary operation for Pedestal so I will guess it was a diversionary operation in the Eastern Med to assist Pedestal?

[Extraneous]

Pedestal
Operation Pedestal Re-supplying Malta Succeeded
Operation Bellows Furious launches 38 Spitfires to Malta Succeeded
Operation Ascendant - getting ships out of Malta from a previous convoy Succeeded

Torch
Operation Train Furious launches 29x Spitfires to Malta Succeeded
Operation Crupper Failed

Torch landings
Operation Goalpost Succeeded
Operation Brushwood Succeeded
Operation Blackstone Succeeded
Operation Terminal (Algiers, Algeria) Succeeded
Operation Reservist (Oran, Algeria) Failed

Perpetual
Operation Perpetual The Assault on Bougie and Djidjelli Succeeded

See For the Purists for details



Extra point question: Which Liberty Ship was part of a convoy and had the same name as an U.S. Attack Transport during Operation Torch?

Transport SS Edward Rutledge (Liberty Ship launched 06/21/42) (7,177 tons) MT, Petrol 224 tons, Stores 500 tons, 49 Personnel

Attack Transport USS Edward Rutledge (AP-52) (ex SS Exeter) (Launched 04/04/31) (9,360 tons) 11/12/42 Sunk by U-130 off Fedala, French Morocco

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Operation Bellows Furious launches 38 Spitfires to Malta [/b] Succeeded
Operation Ascendant - getting ships out of Malta from a previous convoy[/b] Succeeded
Operation Train Furious launches 29x Spitfires to Malta [/b] Succeeded

Warspite1

2 out of 3 [:)] so that was what Ascendant was about [&:].

[Extraneous]

Yes it is see: "For the Purists" - Operation Pedestal or Operation Pedestal

Just a FYI to help answer your previous question "Why is Pedestal associated with Torch". This would be hard to show without the following link which would give away most of the answers I posed.

"Operation Pedestal" is almost always associated with "Operation Torch" on the Internet.

THE AFRICAN CAMPAIGNS 1st August - 31st December, 1942

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Yes it is see: "For the Purists" - Operation Pedestal or Operation Pedestal

Just a FYI to help answer your previous question "Why is Pedestal associated with Torch". This would be hard to show without the following link which would give away most of the answers I posed.

"Operation Pedestal" is almost always associated with "Operation Torch" on the Internet.

THE AFRICAN CAMPAIGNS 1st August - 31st December, 1942

Warspite1

Well I admittedly only had a cursory look at that tome, and so I may have missed something, but as far as I can see Roskill is saying that - Malta having been saved meant that she could play her part in Torch i.e. the subs you mention. I maintain that there is no case for saying those subs operating from Malta was a factor in the success of Torch. I guess we will have to agree to disagree [:)]

[Extraneous]

WESTERN NAVAL TASK FORCE
USA TF-34 Submarine Force performing as beacons to the convoys
Submarine USS Shad (SS-235) (off Port Lyatuey)
Submarine USS Gunnel (SS-253) (off Casablanca)
Submarine USS Herring (SS-233) (off Casablanca)
Submarine USS Barb (SS-220) (off Safi)

From Malta
CENTRAL NAVAL TASK FORCE (Oran, Algeria)
10th Submarine Flotilla (elements) performing as beacons to the convoys
Submarine HMS Unshaken (P 54) Western Landing Group (Beach X-RAY) and Center Landing Group (Beach YORKER)
Submarine HMS Ursula (N 59) Eastern Landing Group (Beach ZEBRA)

EASTERN NAVAL TASK FORCE (Algiers, Algeria)
10th Submarine Flotilla (elements) performing as beacons to the convoys
Submarine HMS Shakespeare (P 221) Western Landing Group (Beach APPLES)
Submarine HMS P 48 (P 48) Center Landing Group (Beach BEER)
Submarine HMS Unrivalled (P 45) Eastern Landing Group (Beach CHARLIE)


[:)] Yes I will have to agree to disagree. [:)]

[Extraneous]

During Operation Torch a new type of ships was introduced the Landing Ship Tank or LST.

After Dunkirk the British had realized they needed ocean-going ships able to land tanks shore to shore. They had 3 tankers converted to have bow doors and ramps installed which became the first LST’s. These LST (1)’s were named HMS Misoa, HMS Tasajera and HMS Bachaquero. But at the time they weren’t called LST’s they were called by their ships class name.


What was the name of the lake in Venezuela their class was named after [&:]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

During Operation Torch a new type of ships was introduced the Landing Ship Tank or LST.

After Dunkirk the British had realized they needed ocean-going ships able to land tanks shore to shore. They had 3 tankers converted to have bow doors and ramps installed which became the first LST’s. These LST (1)’s were named HMS Misoa, HMS Tasajera and HMS Bachaquero. But at the time they weren’t called LST’s they were called by their ships class name.


What was the name of the lake in Venezuela their class was named after [&:]

Warspite1

I did not know they were given a class name, but the Venezuelan lake was Maracaibo. These ships were used during the invasion of Madagascar IIRC.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

During Operation Torch a new type of ships was introduced the Landing Ship Tank or LST.

After Dunkirk the British had realized they needed ocean-going ships able to land tanks shore to shore. They had 3 tankers converted to have bow doors and ramps installed which became the first LST’s. These LST (1)’s were named HMS Misoa, HMS Tasajera and HMS Bachaquero. But at the time they weren’t called LST’s they were called by their ships class name.


What was the name of the lake in Venezuela their class was named after [&:]

Warspite1

I did not know they were given a class name, but the Venezuelan lake was Maracaibo. These ships were used during the invasion of Madagascar IIRC.

[:D] Correct about the lake and that was the queston. [:D]


Maracaibo Class (aka Maracaibo's).

HMS Bachaquero was the only LST to engage in operational duties in WW2 off the beaches of Madagascar on the May 6, 1942.

While HMS Misoa and HMS Tasajera made their active service debuts in Operation Torch.


[8|] You took one of my clues away with your answer. [8|]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

During Operation Torch a new type of ships was introduced the Landing Ship Tank or LST.

After Dunkirk the British had realized they needed ocean-going ships able to land tanks shore to shore. They had 3 tankers converted to have bow doors and ramps installed which became the first LST’s. These LST (1)’s were named HMS Misoa, HMS Tasajera and HMS Bachaquero. But at the time they weren’t called LST’s they were called by their ships class name.


What was the name of the lake in Venezuela their class was named after [&:]

Warspite1

I did not know they were given a class name, but the Venezuelan lake was Maracaibo. These ships were used during the invasion of Madagascar IIRC.

[:D] Correct about the lake and that was the queston. [:D]


Maracaibo Class (aka Maracaibo's).

HMS Bachaquero was the only LST to engage in operational duties in WW2 off the beaches of Madagascar on the May 6, 1942.

While HMS Misoa and HMS Tasajera made their active service debuts in Operation Torch.


[8|] You took one of my clues away with your answer. [8|]

Warspite1

Sorry old boy [;)]

[Extraneous]

[:D] Since you did so well on that one here is another. [:D]


The modern U.S. Navy uses the LCC (Amphibious Command Ships) to provide command, control, and communications support to the commander and staff of the fleet.

Military Intelligence (an oxymoron) gets upset when embarked troops can read a map with NATO symbols. [:-]

They hid the map in S&C (the Secret & Confidential compartment) after I discussed troop movements with the head of Intelligence one morning.



During Operation Torch the Royal Navy used five ships of two types to perform these functions.

Two were of one type:

One for CENTRAL NAVAL TASK FORCE (Oran, Algeria) - Commodore Thomas Hope Troubridge
One for EASTERN NAVAL TASK FORCE (Algiers, Algeria) - Vice Admiral Sir Harold Martin Burrough


The three of the other type were all part of the EASTERN NAVAL TASK FORCE:

One at Beach APPLES
One at Beach BEER
One at Beach CHARLIE

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

[:D] Since you did so well on that one here is another. [:D]


The modern U.S. Navy uses the LCC (Amphibious Command Ships) to provide command, control, and communications support to the commander and staff of the fleet.

Military Intelligence (an oxymoron) gets upset when embarked troops can read a map with NATO symbols. [:-]

They hid the map in S&C (the Secret & Confidential compartment) after I discussed troop movements with the head of Intelligence one morning.



During Operation Torch the Royal Navy used five ships of two types to perform these functions.

Two were of one type:

One for CENTRAL NAVAL TASK FORCE (Oran, Algeria) - Commodore Thomas Hope Troubridge
One for EASTERN NAVAL TASK FORCE (Algiers, Algeria) - Vice Admiral Sir Harold Martin Burrough


The three of the other type were all part of the EASTERN NAVAL TASK FORCE:

One at Beach APPLES
One at Beach BEER
One at Beach CHARLIE

Warspite1

The first two are Largs and Bulolo, but I will have to leave for others to get the other three.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

The first two are Largs and Bulolo, but I will have to leave for others to get the other three.

[:D] Largs and Bulolo the flagships is the correct answer for the first two. [:D]

I messed up the second type there were four. (I was making a list recheck the ships an missed one and messed up the fleets)


One directly attached to EASTERN NAVAL TASK FORCE.


CENTRE NAVAL TASK FORCE:

One at Beach APPLES
One at Beach BEER
One at Beach CHARLIE



Clue 2: The other four ships controlled aircraft at Oran and Algiers, Algeria.



You can have another quess on the other four ships if you want. [;)]

[warspite1]

The other ships also controlled aircraft? Didn't the Bellonas have that capability? Trouble is 1942 seems a bit early for them. What about four of the Didos?

[Extraneous]

HMS Bellona (63) Commissioned: October 29, 1943

Dido Class at Operation Torch
Light Anti-aircraft Cruiser Argonaut (61)
Light Anti-aircraft Cruiser HMS Charybdis (88)
Light Anti-aircraft Cruiser HMS Scylla (98)
Light Anti-aircraft Cruiser HMS Sirius (82)



Force H (Admiral Syfret)
2x Battleships (Duke of York and Rodney)
1x Battle cruiser (Renown)
3x Aircraft Carriers (Victorious, Formidable, and Furious)
3x Cruisers (Light Cruiser Bermuda, Light Anti-aircraft Cruiser Argonaut, and Light Anti-aircraft Cruiser Sirius)
17x Destroyers

Force O - Covering Force for KMS.1 (A) Eastern Naval Task Force
1x Aircraft Carrier (Argus)
1x Auxiliary carrier (Avenger)
1x Monitor (Roberts)
3x Cruisers (Heavy Cruiser Sheffield, Light Anti-aircraft Cruiser Scylla, and Light Anti-aircraft Cruiser Charybdis)
5x Destroyers (Broke, Malcolm, Opportune, Vanoc, and Wrestler)

[:(] You will notice these were not at the beaches mentioned. [:(]


Last clue: One was sunk on November 12, 1942 at Bougie, Algeria.

[Extraneous]

And the answer is the Anti-aircraft ships.


Centre Naval Task Force (Commodore Troubridge) (Western Landing group (Beach APPLES), Center Landing Group (Beach BEER), and Eastern Landing Group Beach CHARLIE) (Oran, Algeria)

3x A.A. Ships (Pozarica Beach APPLES, Palomares Beach BEER, and Tynwald (sunk on November 12, 1942 at Bougie, Algeria) Beach CHARLIE)


Eastern Naval Task Force (Admiral Burrough) (Western Landing group (Beach X-RAY), Center Landing Group (Beach YORKER), and Eastern Landing Group Beach ZEBRA) (Algiers, Algeria)

2x A.A. Ships (Alynbank and 1x Beach ZEBRA (Light Anti-aircraft Cruiser Delhi))



[;)] I would like to thank warspite1 (aka Robert Jenkins) on his contribution to the naval units writeups.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

And the answer is the Anti-aircraft ships.


Centre Naval Task Force (Commodore Troubridge) (Western Landing group (Beach APPLES), Center Landing Group (Beach BEER), and Eastern Landing Group Beach CHARLIE) (Oran, Algeria)

3x A.A. Ships (Pozarica Beach APPLES, Palomares Beach BEER, and Tynwald (sunk on November 12, 1942 at Bougie, Algeria) Beach CHARLIE)


Eastern Naval Task Force (Admiral Burrough) (Western Landing group (Beach X-RAY), Center Landing Group (Beach YORKER), and Eastern Landing Group Beach ZEBRA) (Algiers, Algeria)

2x A.A. Ships (Alynbank and 1x Beach ZEBRA (Light Anti-aircraft Cruiser Delhi))



[;)] I would like to thank warspite1 (aka Robert Jenkins) on his contribution to the naval units writeups.

I think there would be a long queue of people thanking Rob.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

And the answer is the Anti-aircraft ships.


Centre Naval Task Force (Commodore Troubridge) (Western Landing group (Beach APPLES), Center Landing Group (Beach BEER), and Eastern Landing Group Beach CHARLIE) (Oran, Algeria)

3x A.A. Ships (Pozarica Beach APPLES, Palomares Beach BEER, and Tynwald (sunk on November 12, 1942 at Bougie, Algeria) Beach CHARLIE)


Eastern Naval Task Force (Admiral Burrough) (Western Landing group (Beach X-RAY), Center Landing Group (Beach YORKER), and Eastern Landing Group Beach ZEBRA) (Algiers, Algeria)

2x A.A. Ships (Alynbank and 1x Beach ZEBRA (Light Anti-aircraft Cruiser Delhi))



[;)] I would like to thank warspite1 (aka Robert Jenkins) on his contribution to the naval units writeups.

Warspite1

Thanks for those kind words Extraneous/Shannon. However, this is a team effort. I am indebted to Extraneous for continuing to proof read these write-ups.

I am also a little embarrassed that I did not know the answer to part II of the torch question - especially as Pozerica is one of the ships that I have written about [X(]. My only defence is that it was a long time ago now - and the focus of the write-up was PQ17 rather than Torch (which shall be left to another counter(s)).