Andy Mac v PZB ....The Allies Fight Back

[Andy Mac]

I am now at work having sent off the turn and am very nervous about having went back in for Gumma methinks I may have over reached.....
 
I am also hard at work thinking about a new plan to blast my way through to the Home Islands
 
It aint cunning its very very Brute Force but that does not mean it wont work.
 
I am thinking I can probably muster 30 Divs now no matter what PZB has on Okinawa I probably have the firepower to take it.
 
Bonin Island -> Naga -> Okinawa just pound my way through via brute force I would need Clark 1st to allow me a forward rest area but apart from that itshould be doable ?
 
Andy

[Andy Mac]

I have withdrawn slightly and am attacking at Clak and Linguyen I also have a cunning plan for Manila...
 
If I feint at Manila from the sea and air I think PZB will pull out of Clark Field.
 
I think my next real target has to be Okinawa
 
8th US Army has about 5000 AV at present and has finished its refit at Camranh Bay - I will commence loading and will use that fleet to feint at manila and then sail onto Okinawa.
 
Okinawa will be a hard nut to take but if I need to enter into a hard nasty mountian fight then I may as well pick Okinawa as anywhere else.

[veji1]

Luckily for you the Shinden with its very short legs is crap at escorting and Reppus and Franks, while good planes, cannot break the UBERCAP, so his offensive firepower isn't big, on the other hand defensively he will be quite strong.

But there is no spine that a couple of sweeps with 250 P51s followed by 250 B29s can't break...

[duckenf]

Formosa might be a better option. Or consolidation in the Phillipines where things are a bit bogged down. The sooner you get ahold of those lvl 4 airfields the worse it is for PzB -- then you can cover a lot of invasions with LBA based on Clark Field or nearby. Will help with the future invasions.

But what about retaking India? I know you're not playing for VPs, but it seems that that has the potential to really swing things in your favor by that measure.

You can also bag a lot of points with strategic bombing; that's added a lot already to the VP totals, but the realy pay-off is in destroyed Japanese aircraft factories. Less Shindens to face in future if you can keep doing what you have been trying to do.

I know the strategic war is about over, but releasing your subs might be a good thing -- at least to make sure the outposts of the Empire are withering and not sending/receiving supplies. Interdicting Iwo with subs might help your beleagured ground troops, too.

[Andy Mac]

Formosa is very heavily defended and in range of several range 2 AF's so Shindens come into play
 
I have a lot of lvl 4 AF's in north PI Vigan, Laong, Appari and Tuguero to cover invasions and after this latest turn I will be standing down all 124 P51's to rest and get ready for future operations
 
Strat Bombing is a good point scorer but Manpower is a waste of time target and I need to get fighters in range to do real damage and that means Okinawa.
 
India is tough I have Yanam in the south and when it is level 4 AF I will consider moving out but playing that one slightly slow appears to be the way to proceed.
 
Iwo is a prion camp for him as well but subs are out there I have just lost soooo many of them that I dont know what to do now.
 
 

[duckenf]

I'm assuming that the VPs/level of victory aren't really your concern at this point, right?

If that's the case, then I assume you'll be using nukes every month or holding off and unleashing an Armageddon Alpha Strike on several targets simultaneously -- I'd like to see the latter, especially if a seaborne invasion of the Home Islands followed right on its heels!

[Andy Mac]

Umm no I am watching VP's carefully

I need 1.8x with no more than 2 A Bombs to get a draw by March 46

As soon as I get a nuke Gumma is toast one month later Tokyo's getting it I just dont have them yet.

[duckenf]

Last I saw the VPs were 103K-87K (1.18x). If his numbers hold steady, you'd need about 156K to win, but his are likely to go down a bit as you retake bases. I think he might have made an error in India building up Lvl9 forts as that raises their value in VPs when you take them back. Not sure what the numbers in India would look like, but it is bound to be thousands taken from him and added to your totals. Not sure if that would make victory possible without invading the Home Islands, but if you're keeping a close eye on VPs then looking at where the VPs are to be had might be helpful -- any chance you might post some of that info?

[Andy Mac]

Will do I need to wait for PZB's next turn and its 156k for the draw I cannot win now !!!

I only have 5 Divs in India so its unlikely I will make much progress (and one of those went off road for some reason - I hate movement mechanics)

Andy

[erstad]

ORIGINAL: medck

I think he might have made an error in India building up Lvl9 forts as that raises their value in VPs when you take them back. Not sure what the numbers in India would look like, but it is bound to be thousands taken from him and added to your totals.

Forts don't affect VP values, only airfields and ports.
And even for airfields and ports, the Allies have a bazillion engineers, they could build them up themselves.

[duckenf]

ORIGINAL: erstad

ORIGINAL: medck

I think he might have made an error in India building up Lvl9 forts as that raises their value in VPs when you take them back. Not sure what the numbers in India would look like, but it is bound to be thousands taken from him and added to your totals.

Forts don't affect VP values, only airfields and ports.
And even for airfields and ports, the Allies have a bazillion engineers, they could build them up themselves.

that's useful to know -- a way to get some more VPs in the end-game -- never let your engineers rest, always build up facilities (or prep for the next invasion!)

[Andy Mac]

OK we are back in dodge and running turns I tried to hit Tokyo to be honest I am dissapointed in the results my Superforts seem to do no damage I had over 200 hit Tokyo in daylight attacking manpower and did swwet FA damage WTF doesa it take to get a firestorm going.
 
Change in plan I am going to take Colombo as it is lightly guarded
 
Also decided not to go for Okinawa I figured I will finish off PI 1st and will land a large force at manila PZB only has 15,000 men and 12 units in the city I think he has sent em all to Clark
 
Andy

[Andy Mac]

516 Manpower hits and no firestorm what do  need to do to hit his production ?
 
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/10/45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Tokyo , at 66,43
 
Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Reppu x 48
N1K1-J George x 16
J7W Shinden x 30
Ki-100 Tony x 19
 
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 78
F4U-1D Corsair x 110
Corsair IV x 9
SB2C Helldiver x 31
TBM Avenger x 73
 
Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Reppu: 46 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 14 destroyed
J7W Shinden: 22 destroyed
Ki-100 Tony: 19 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 11 destroyed
C6N1-S Myrt: 4 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed
 
Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 51 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 31 destroyed, 6 damaged
Corsair IV: 1 destroyed
SB2C Helldiver: 4 destroyed, 14 damaged
TBM Avenger: 4 destroyed, 15 damaged
 
Japanese ground losses:
174 casualties reported
Guns lost 6
 
Airbase hits 11
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 26
 
Aircraft Attacking:
13 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
14 x SB2C Helldiver bombing at 2000 feet
15 x TBM Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
13 x TBM Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
17 x TBM Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
17 x TBM Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
 7 x TBM Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Tokyo , at 66,43
 
Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Reppu x 3
N1K1-J George x 2
J7W Shinden x 9
Ki-100 Tony x 1
 
Allied aircraft
P-61A Black Widow x 76
 
Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Reppu: 3 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 2 destroyed
J7W Shinden: 9 destroyed
Ki-100 Tony: 1 destroyed
 
Allied aircraft losses
P-61A Black Widow: 9 destroyed, 2 damaged
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Tokyo , at 66,43
 
 
Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 215
 
 
Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 6 damaged
 
Manpower hits 516

 
 
Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
11 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 6 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 4 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 5 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 5 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 1 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Tokyo , at 66,43
 
Japanese aircraft
no flights
 
Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 74
 
Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Reppu: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIc Nick: 14 destroyed
C6N1-S Myrt: 11 destroyed
Ki-100 Tony: 3 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed
J1N1-S Irving: 1 destroyed
 
Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 1 destroyed, 14 damaged
 
Japanese ground losses:
106 casualties reported
Guns lost 4
 
Airbase hits 13
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 47
 
Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
16 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
18 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
16 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 3 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
 2 x B-29 Superfortress bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35
 
Japanese aircraft
B7A Grace x 3
 
No Japanese losses
 
Runway hits 1
 
Aircraft Attacking:
 3 x B7A Grace bombing at 9000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Pisanuloke , at 32,38
 
 
Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 8
 
 
No Allied losses
 
Runway hits 2
 
Aircraft Attacking:
 8 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Lingayen , at 44,50
 
 
Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 20
 
 
Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged
 
Japanese ground losses:
22 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
 
Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 13
 
Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
 8 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 11th Aviation Rgt , at 43,52
 
 
Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 28
F6F Hellcat x 30
F4U-1D Corsair x 75
TBM Avenger x 50
A-26B Invader x 26
 
 
No Allied losses
 
Japanese ground losses:
212 casualties reported
 
Aircraft Attacking:
16 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
17 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
25 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
18 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
 6 x FM-2 Wildcat bombing at 2000 feet
 8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
 6 x F6F Hellcat bombing at 2000 feet
 6 x FM-2 Wildcat bombing at 2000 feet
16 x FM-2 Wildcat bombing at 2000 feet
 8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
 8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
 8 x TBM Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
17 x F4U-1D Corsair bombing at 2000 feet
11 x A-26B Invader bombing at 6000 feet
15 x A-26B Invader bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Yokosuka 7th SNLF, at 43,52
 
 
Allied aircraft
A-26B Invader x 15
 
 
No Allied losses
 
Japanese ground losses:
153 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
 
Aircraft Attacking:
 9 x A-26B Invader bombing at 6000 feet
 6 x A-26B Invader bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Rangoon , at 29,34
 
 
Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 10
A-26B Invader x 2
 
 
Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 2 damaged
 
Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 1
 
Aircraft Attacking:
 2 x A-26B Invader attacking at 100 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 69,46
 
Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 23
 
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 23 destroyed
 
Allied Ships
BB Iowa
BB Alabama
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 20,23
 
Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 3
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 14
Ki-49 Helen x 13
 
Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 18
 
Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 3 damaged
Ki-49 Helen: 8 damaged
 
Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 damaged
 
Allied Ships
CVE Kwajalein, Bomb hits 2,  on fire,  heavy damage
 
Aircraft Attacking:
 2 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 5000 feet
 3 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 5000 feet
 3 x P1Y Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
 4 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 5000 feet
 4 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 19,23
 
Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 3
 
Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 1 damaged
 
Allied Ships
DD Irwin
 
Aircraft Attacking:
 3 x P1Y Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet

[Speedysteve]

Hui Andy,
 
I think i've done enough testing of Manpower hits in my game vs Fasbrer at Gumma. My conclusiondon;t do it. You can achieve far better results by precision bombing. I bombed a relartively unopposed city for 2 weeks solid and number of fires actually DECREASED (due to wear and tear ther number of B29's that flew dropped. If you miss a day due to weather the fires drop by 70-80%!) Check my AAR for the results but seriously don't go for Manpower. Go for specific industries.

[marky]

my buddy tek got sum decent storms goin

its reall simple actually

[:D]

[Andy Mac]

How did he do it Marky ?
 
Thanks Speedy but that is worrying the allies NEED the 20 points for destroying industry and the only way to do it is via firestorms I have been bombing the HI for months and only have 5,000 points I was counting on 60 or 70,000 to get up to a draw but this looks increasingly unlikely
 
 

[marky]

a #$%#LOAD of B29s IIRC

like 1000 or more in 1 raid

i forget

[Fishbed]

I think i've done enough testing of Manpower hits in my game vs Fasbrer at Gumma. My conclusiondon;t do it. You can achieve far better results by precision bombing. I bombed a relartively unopposed city for 2 weeks solid and number of fires actually DECREASED (due to wear and tear ther number of B29's that flew dropped. If you miss a day due to weather the fires drop by 70-80%!) Check my AAR for the results but seriously don't go for Manpower. Go for specific industries.

We have to face the reality that most of the things which are supposed to happen late in the war just don't sound right, whenever they even accept to work.
Eventually, a substancial amout of AARs are starting to get well into 1945 2 years after the initial release, I suppose it is time to address these issues then [:)]

[Speedysteve]

Sorry Marky but I disagree. I would like to see that. If you owned Saipan and Tinian with masses of B29's on each and you flew raids for days on end for 2 months I think it would be an option but I can't see that happening in Stock games.

[Andy Mac]

How do you get 1,000 B29's I have at max about 600 in all sqns and i cannot sustain operations at best I can get 300 over target on a max day effort and it is not enough to cause a firestorm.