The Power of Inexperience / GreyJoy(A)-Rader(J)

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crsutton
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RE: Fighting

Post by crsutton »

Yep you might bide your time for a while in India and just aim to hit his airforce where you can. The problem with a direct overland campaign is that it is probably what he wants. A slow grinding delaying fight in India. The option is to try and use your armor and flank him and possibly cut off big chunks of Japanese infantry. Or look for a big flanking invasion attack later on. If you are going to wait and flank then I think you will need to move a lot of armor out of the Karachi area for that purpose. You will really need it elsewhere. But he will of course be aware of it. You could move the armor to Ambion or Aden for a while. Keep him guessing. The problem is that you will need a good port on the map to store ships and troops where he can't snoop. And most of the bases in the Indian Ocean have troops limits.

Of course, there is also the "big solution" Keep enough force in India to keep him busy and then invade Java. If you hold Sabang and points south, you effectively cut off the sea lane to India and Burma and threaten his oil supply. But it would take a massive effort as you will not have Colombo to use as a support base.
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GreyJoy
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RE: Fighting

Post by GreyJoy »

June 2, 3 1943

A good turn for my subs....
KB stationing at Truk. Confirmed.

Japan is building up a great fighter force beyond the line Russell, Thousands, Auki...




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Manado at 74,96

Japanese Ships
xAK Seizan Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Stingray

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



xAK Seizan Maru is sighted by SS Stingray
SS Stingray launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Seizan Maru


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Manado at 74,96

Japanese Ships
xAK Tensyo Maru, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Stingray

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Kure Island at 158,73

Japanese Ships
AV Joyo Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*

Allied Ships
SS Lapon



AV Joyo Maru is sighted by SS Lapon
SS Lapon launches 4 torpedoes


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GreyJoy
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RE: Fighting

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yep you might bide your time for a while in India and just aim to hit his airforce where you can. The problem with a direct overland campaign is that it is probably what he wants. A slow grinding delaying fight in India. The option is to try and use your armor and flank him and possibly cut off big chunks of Japanese infantry. Or look for a big flanking invasion attack later on. If you are going to wait and flank then I think you will need to move a lot of armor out of the Karachi area for that purpose. You will really need it elsewhere. But he will of course be aware of it. You could move the armor to Ambion or Aden for a while. Keep him guessing. The problem is that you will need a good port on the map to store ships and troops where he can't snoop. And most of the bases in the Indian Ocean have troops limits.

Of course, there is also the "big solution" Keep enough force in India to keep him busy and then invade Java. If you hold Sabang and points south, you effectively cut off the sea lane to India and Burma and threaten his oil supply. But it would take a massive effort as you will not have Colombo to use as a support base.

Well guys, it's clearly something i cannot foresee now. I'm massing a great landing force at Aden...let's see how the situation in India develops and then, in few months we'll see what to do.

For sure the "In-land" solution will be the safer...but i'm not so sure we can break the Multan-line, so far away from my bases (9 hexes far from Hyderabad)...anyway it will all depends on how the air war will develop...let's see and remain flexible!
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Canoerebel
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RE: Fighting

Post by Canoerebel »

GreyJoy, the main thing that we're trying to convey is that you have to be thinking six months and twelve months out, prepositioning men, supply, transports, combat ships; prepping units; creating feints; etc.
 
You may be doing that already, but we just want to nudge you in that direction.  You don't want to find yourself in 12/43 or 6/44 thinking, "Man, I'd love to take advantage of my opponent right now by invading xxx, but darn it, it will take me five months to gather everything together to get started."
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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crsutton
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RE: Fighting

Post by crsutton »

Agree with CR, and you need total carrier superiorty for a big invasion which means around late 43 early 44. Amazing thing is he will still have more planes than you then. You have to expect a sharp counter attack.
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CaptBeefheart
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RE: Fighting

Post by CaptBeefheart »

I've never faced such a situation, so one of our more esteemed commenters will have a better grasp, but would taking Ceylon help GreyJoy out at this point? I would think Rader would have to start evac-ing India posthaste with that kind of thorn in the side (with Scoodra [sic] and Addu taken simultaneously).

Also, I like the idea of building up Western Oz with the dagger pointed north into oil territory. Either way, the KB would hopefully be tied down in the titanic SoPac struggle which GreyJoy would ensure is getting a lot of imperial attention.

Cheers,
CC
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GreyJoy
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RE: Fighting

Post by GreyJoy »

I agree with you guys and i'm well aware of the necessity of "foreseeing" and plan for the future.
I think, at some degree, i'm doing it, building up Western Oz and NOPAC and moving there assets (LCUs, fuel and supplies for the moment).
At the same time the counterinvasion armada is massing at Aden, along with lots of fuel and supplies for Karachi and India in general.
The Solomons will remain a central theatre, where i hope to keep on putting up the pressure against him and grind down his assets.
Another option is NE Coast of Oz. At Cooktown i'm massing LCUs and supplies in order to be ready for a Jump at Meurake (the southern mid-coast of NG), while at Alice Spring eng and base forces are ready to be moved north as soon as i can open a decent sealane to resupply Darwin.

June 4, 5 1943.

Nothing happened a part from 3 midget subs that sunk themselfs on the Tulagi minefields.
11 of his ttransport floaat planes were shot down by a single Corsair over the skies of Tulagi[:D]...we have now a brand new ace among our USMC lines[8D]

Still converting Wildcats to Hellcats...we're alomost over with the process.

Everything is quiet in India. 300 fighters spotted at Jodpur and 100 more at Multan. His bombers seem to have been retired from the Indian front...[X(]
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GreyJoy
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RE: Fighting

Post by GreyJoy »

Something puzzels me.
The recent return of the KB (after the aborted WC raid) to the South Pacific Theatre (at Truk right now) seems to have revitalized the whole japanese shippings in the area. Suddenly lots of convoys of transports, PBs and SCs, have popped up coming down from Truk, moving to Green island, Bouganville bases and shortland. What does this mean is out of my comprehension. Seems that Rader is willing to keep on moving in supplies and men...but considering that he has already built up everything down to Tulagi and filled every base with 10 units (most of those are base forces and eng plus some regimental size units), seems to me a kind of an "overkilling".
However as long as i force the KB to remain "visible" and tied to the fate of this theatre...i'm fine.
Saros
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RE: Fighting

Post by Saros »

Puzzels [:D].
I don't know how you manage to pick the most endearing way to misspell things every time.
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Canoerebel
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RE: Fighting

Post by Canoerebel »

Why do you refer to it as an aborted West Coast raid?  Did rader, via email, tell you that's what it was?
 
I've only been able to read highlights from your AAR over the past few weeks due to my schedule here, but I certainly don't think rader planned to raid the West Coast with his carriers.  Alaska, maybe.  Washington or California?  No.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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GreyJoy
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RE: Fighting

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: Saros

Puzzels [:D].
I don't know how you manage to pick the most endearing way to misspell things every time.

P:U:Z:Z:L:E:S [:D]

Don't even know if the verb "to puzzle" is used correctly here.... i use it cause i remember it's used in Hamlet's monologue "....The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn, No traveller returns, puzzles the will, And makes us rather bear those ills we have..."
That bitch of an english teatcher i had at high school forced me to learn the whole soliloquy and to repeat only by memory [:@]


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GreyJoy
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RE: Fighting

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Why do you refer to it as an aborted West Coast raid?  Did rader, via email, tell you that's what it was?

I've only been able to read highlights from your AAR over the past few weeks due to my schedule here, but I certainly don't think rader planned to raid the West Coast with his carriers.  Alaska, maybe.  Washington or California?  No.


...mmmmhhhh.... you may be right, however was a generic way of calling that (i think) aborted raid mission against my inner supply lines on the new world.
He clearly tried to penetrate in the only "gap" i have in my air search (between Midway and the Aleutinas) but when it was revealed he didn't lose any more time and steamed back west!
Probably he wanted to catch a full convoy moving from SF to PH, maybe full of troops and planes...don't know if he had any intel about it....however he didn't tell me anything about that nor i even named in our emails that particular happening...

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Graymane
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RE: Fighting

Post by Graymane »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Something puzzels me.
The recent return of the KB (after the aborted WC raid) to the South Pacific Theatre (at Truk right now) seems to have revitalized the whole japanese shippings in the area. Suddenly lots of convoys of transports, PBs and SCs, have popped up coming down from Truk, moving to Green island, Bouganville bases and shortland. What does this mean is out of my comprehension. Seems that Rader is willing to keep on moving in supplies and men...but considering that he has already built up everything down to Tulagi and filled every base with 10 units (most of those are base forces and eng plus some regimental size units), seems to me a kind of an "overkilling".
However as long as i force the KB to remain "visible" and tied to the fate of this theatre...i'm fine.

Why does that puzzle you? He has you held in Indian and held in the Solomons as long as KB is there. That is a win for him, and not fine for you long term -) The interesting thing is that you have two fronts that you can eventually fight on without carrier support, meaning you can open a 3rd front supported by your carriers. That will force him to tie KB to one place or waste time sailing between hot spots.

Are you planning on opening some kind of Java, Marianas or other campaign to apply more pressure?
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GreyJoy
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RE: Fighting

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: Graymane

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Something puzzels me.
The recent return of the KB (after the aborted WC raid) to the South Pacific Theatre (at Truk right now) seems to have revitalized the whole japanese shippings in the area. Suddenly lots of convoys of transports, PBs and SCs, have popped up coming down from Truk, moving to Green island, Bouganville bases and shortland. What does this mean is out of my comprehension. Seems that Rader is willing to keep on moving in supplies and men...but considering that he has already built up everything down to Tulagi and filled every base with 10 units (most of those are base forces and eng plus some regimental size units), seems to me a kind of an "overkilling".
However as long as i force the KB to remain "visible" and tied to the fate of this theatre...i'm fine.

Why does that puzzle you? He has you held in Indian and held in the Solomons as long as KB is there. That is a win for him, and not fine for you long term -) The interesting thing is that you have two fronts that you can eventually fight on without carrier support, meaning you can open a 3rd front supported by your carriers. That will force him to tie KB to one place or waste time sailing between hot spots.

Are you planning on opening some kind of Java, Marianas or other campaign to apply more pressure?

It puzzles me because he had clearly the chance of raiding deep down into my lines, only risking some planes, but knowing that i didn't have my CVs in that area (he can sees that i'm using the CV air groups over Ndeni and Lunga, while my CVs are safely resting in Melbourne)...he could have raid PH, SF or however try to catch a lonely convoy (and i had at least 3 of them running from SF to PH)...his turn-back has been a little bit strange to me...

However yes, i'm planning to open a second front but i want a front that won't need my CVs...the CVs will surely be partecipating in the "opening" of the front, but i'm not willing to risk them in a close-support role.
As said, a drive from Oz West Coast or along the Aleutinas to the Kuriles are my two best options, supported by a couple of minor operations i still have in my pocket (Tarawa and Mereauke on south New Guinea).
To do that, however, i want to be sure to be tiding down as much of his assets as possible on the actual 2 fronts, meaning that i first need to see how much can i force him to committ in India and in the Solomons.

In the meanwhile...troops and assets keep on massing at Aden, Perth and Ducth Harbour...
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witpqs
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RE: Fighting

Post by witpqs »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Why do you refer to it as an aborted West Coast raid?  Did rader, via email, tell you that's what it was?

I've only been able to read highlights from your AAR over the past few weeks due to my schedule here, but I certainly don't think rader planned to raid the West Coast with his carriers.  Alaska, maybe.  Washington or California?  No.

Yeah, far more likely a raid on shipping hoping to catch something juicy and (the real goal) set you panicking about LOCs. A raid on WC could mean a carrier zillions of miles from a friendly port after suffering a lucky hit.
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Graymane
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RE: Fighting

Post by Graymane »

Doesn't an attack on the Kuriles trigger Kamis?
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Cribtop
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RE: Fighting

Post by Cribtop »

Not sure but I know it triggers a lot of restricted HQ reinforcements in Japan.
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RE: Fighting

Post by Canoerebel »

Kamikazes aren't eligible to appear until January 1, 1944 (I think that's the date).  They only appear then if the Allied player is within certain range of several ports, including (I think) Tokyo, Saigon, and Takao.

So, an invasion of the Kuriles before 1/1/44 would NOT trigger kamikazes until 1/1/44.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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GreyJoy
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RE: Fighting

Post by GreyJoy »

Jun 6, 7 1943

Another very quiet turn.

The KB has disappeared from my "radars" but he sent a HUGE number of ACMs against my PTs at Tulagi...losing all of them but 4 that managed to escape...what is he doing!?[&:]
However now i have 2 more divisions in the theatre and i'll start pushing harder.

It also seems that Rader is moving back most of his air assets both from the Solomons and from India...number of fighters and bombers spotted is decreasing every day...again he leaves me without any explanation for his moves... in India since the P-47s have appeared nothing has happened...[X(]

He also keeps on trying to extract his 5 divisions at Tulagi...and his Mavis-Ls keep on getting intercepted....strange, very very strange

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Tulagi (114,137)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2665 troops, 219 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 1268

Defending force 56492 troops, 426 guns, 188 vehicles, Assault Value = 1868

Japanese ground losses:
83 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Assaulting units:
148th Infantry Regiment
145th Infantry Regiment
3rd Marine Division
24th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
1st Marine Raider Battalion
754th Tank Battalion
627th Tank Destroyer Battalion
102nd Combat Engineer Regiment
23rd Marine Regiment
3rd USMC Tank Battalion
353rd Construction Regiment
205th Field Artillery Battalion
57th Coastal Artillery Regiment
I US Corps
102nd USN Base Force
181st Field Artillery Regiment
7th Marine Defense Battalion
179th USAAF Base Force
16th USN Naval Construction Battalion
804th Engineer Aviation Battalion
139th USA Base Force
97th Field Artillery Battalion
96th Coast AA Regiment
3rd USN Naval Construction Battalion
147th Field Artillery Regiment
21st USN Naval Construction Battalion
369th Coast AA Regiment
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
34th Aviation Base Force
821st Engineer Aviation Battalion
177th Construction Regiment
220th USN Base Force /2

Defending units:
4th Division
38th Division
36th Infantry Regiment
64th Infantry Brigade
90th Infantry Regiment
52nd Infantry Brigade
71st Infantry Brigade
5th Division
Ichiki Det.
2nd Area Army


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 07, 43

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
ACM Choun Maru #8, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
PT-63
PT-128
PT-188

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
ACM Bisan Maru, Shell hits 21, and is sunk

Allied Ships
PT-222
PT-232
PT-239




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
ACM Hanata Maru #6, Shell hits 1, heavy fires

Allied Ships
PT-222
PT-232
PT-239



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tulagi at 114,137, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
ACM Noshiro Maru #2, Shell hits 18, and is sunk

Allied Ships
PT-222
PT-232
PT-239



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SoliInvictus202
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RE: Fighting

Post by SoliInvictus202 »

just keep in mind that, just because some transports show as "intercepted" - doesn't mean that they don't carry troops back with them....

in one of my games the enemy intercepted (and I counted) more planes than I actually sent - and I still got troops in the place I wanted... (I got the "intercept" message 10 or so times and actually had just 7 Catalinas moving troops in)

but I doubt that'll make much of a difference!
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