ORIGINAL: Q-Ball NE India: Despite taking Silchar and Tezpur, we can't RR there; "No Path". Why? Not sure.....but if we have to march, so be it.
Have you tried looking at the hex control overlay? Might it be that the rail line goes through enemy ZoC or enemy controlled hexes? Sounds likely since you only paradropped into Tezpur.
terje439: That's it. I need to actually walk to the end of the line I guess.
Combat Report, April 2-23, 1942:
Slow-Going: Troops are approaching Salem in the south, just outside Madras, and marching toward Bezwada from Cocanda, to cut off Madras from the other direction.
The other main advance, in NE India, is going slowly. It's going to take awhile to surround Calcutta, I estimate a month at least. Meanwhile, the Allies get stronger, which isn't a good thing.
India is a monster-sized continent that takes 2+ months to walk accross, even if completely unopposed. I do control the seas, so I am able to land at Goa or further up the coast, but that would be yet another prong that is not mutually supporting.
I need to bring together the Southern Forces, and close out Madras.
Bidding Addu: I landed 3 units at Addu, and it fell instantly. I probably overdid it with the invasion, bringing 160 AV, but I wasn't sure how much AV the base force there had; I knew it was fairly large. Anyway, another 3,000 POWs, but not a useful unit for the Allies.
Refugees: The 4 Bns from Akyab that were wrecked have made the coast; one unit disappeared, so I think he is airlifting them out via Flying Boat. Not much I can do about that, but the units he is lifting won't be worth much, because he doesn't have Burmese or British squads to replace them with.
The stack that withdrew from Chittagong is still in the jungle; they are stuck. I bomb them everyday for target practice, so they are probably not doing well.
ACCOMPLISHMENTS TO DATE: I have failed in one objective: The Allied fleet does not want to come out it seems. Either Dan is hording his ships for large counterstroke elsewhere, or he is going to refuse combat until he has naval superiority, and can overwhelm me with numbers.
Waiting is not a bad strategy, it's pretty much a sure-winner for the Allies.
He isn't coming out for India I don't think. He didn't really have to, because it's a land campaign, but he ain't coming IMO, unless it's to raid my supply line in the Bay of Bengal. I have a good line of pickets, though, so feel pretty secure there, or at least that I'll have warning.
I am pulling Combined Fleet from the Bay of Bengal. I am leaving behind 4 old BBs to provide Fire support to the shore, and I'll keep a few cruisers to raid up the West Coast of India, but everyone else is leaving.
We need to hatch a plan to draw out the US Fleet; or if they refuse to come out, take something that will hurt. Any ideas?
FIJI is only really worth points, nothing else. It's pretty much useless defensively.
MIDWAY is interesting, but not terribly important. It also figures to be a tough nut, as DBs can easily fly there from Pearl.
NO to NEW ZEALAND: I don't want to trigger reinforcements.
LINE ISLANDS? Maybe, that would be a thorn in his side. Or an easily isolated outpost.
ALEUTS? This might have some promise
None of these spots really improve my defenses or are guaranteed to bring out the USN. It's almost May, so anything figures to be pretty well defended.
I could simply start raiding shipping lanes; I haven't done alot of that so far, because I don't want good surface ships stumbling into Carriers.
Defenses: Dan would be doing me a favor by launching a major offensive right now; but it's never too early to start tending to defenses. What is the status?
AIR: I have several BETTY units in the Central Pacific. I have suffered few losses in pilots, so I still have the elite pilots that can hit anything with a torpedo. Zeros are also available. This is my main weapon right now, as they can react in just a turn or two to any ship movements.
Alot of my defensive plans involve Airbase CLUSTERS, where I can use a single AIR HQ to provide torpedo support to multiple airbases. A CLUSTER is also harder to shut down via 4E; any single airbase cannot be defended, but a cluster of 2-3 might be.
KURILES: I have sent some base troops here, and I am airlifting a brigade out to Paramushiro Jima. In a few days I get some Independent Inf. Bns, and plan to deploy them here. Para Jima will be a very tough nut; the other islands are not as of yet. Onnekoton Jima (sp?), is also being built. I plan to CLUSTER Para and Onnek with an AIR DIV HQ flown from Bihoro (a Restricted one).
MARSHALLS/WAKE: It's tough to get a cluster here, but on the flip side, he can't shut them down with 4E ahead of time. The overall defensive plan:
1. Early warning picket line, to the East of Marshalls, and also east of Marcus. I will use xAKLs and Subs.
2. I am only building islands with a 6,000 capacity; these are the toughest to take, and I can easily stuff all of them to the max with troops. I am mostly using NAV GD units in the Marshalls.
3. I am stationing some small AIRBASE COs on some 0(0) and 0 (0) islands; I love these, because they can provide SEAPLANE support, can be easily evacuated if thretened (Via Flying Boat), and are useless to the Allies.
4. I intend to strongly build Ponape, Kusaie, and Nauru, as my 2nd line of defense behind the Marshalls; realistically, though, they are all speedbumps.
SOLOMONS/NEW HEBRIDES:
I do not intend to defend the New Hebrides, except via air. I don't want to commit ground troops down there, because they are too easily cut-off, and too difficult to extract.
I am fortifying the Solomons of course; I am setting up 2 major AIR HQ CLUSTERS:
1. LUNGA-TULAGI-TASSFARONGA: Building all, and putting an AIR HQ at Lunga
2. LAE-NADZAB-WAU: I love these, because only Lae can be assaulted via Sea. Also watches the Torres Strait.
DEI: This is where I am concentrating the most resources, as THIS is the most vulnerable area, particularly SUMATRA, which will get the most attention.
At the SOUTHERN END, Koepang/Roti are one cluster, and I plan to build another on Flores. Java is a ready-built cluster, with unlimited airbases and local supply sources.
SUMATRA will have at least 2, maybe 3 CLUSTERS:
One centered around Palembang, and using the 2 (7) potential airbases to the West, and another around MEDAN, using all airbases within 5 hexes, including one in the center of Sumatra.
3. I am stationing some small AIRBASE COs on some 0(0) and 0 (0) islands; I love these, because they can provide SEAPLANE support, can be easily evacuated if thretened (Via Flying Boat), and are useless to the Allies.
Interesting thought. Curious to see how they work at this. I assume you'll supply with APDs or barges?
Back side of Malaya can help with Sumatra as well, especially the end that sticks way out into the IO. Very hard to defend down there without air power from Malaya/Siam.
"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown
MYNOK: RE: Malaya, this does help defend Sumatra; you can reach Sumatran airbases from Malaya, and there are so many airstrips you can't shut them all down. It would be very tough for that reason for the Allies to establish themselves around there in 1942. 1943....another story.
RE: Supply, I just drop off 5000 supplies with the initial landing, and call it a day with that. I just landed an Aviation Company on the 0-0 base between Wake and Wotje; begins with a T, can't remember the name.
Combat Report, April 25, 1942:
Cooktown: The Australians re-take Cooktown. The only troops I had there was that 1/33 unit that withdraws in 30 days anyway; I withdrew most of it via flying boat just to avoid the point loss. Otherwise, I had no intention of defending Cooktown.
I must remain vigilant for a buildup along the Australian coast; Dan will no doubt attempt to construct large airbases.
My BFF!: A tank unit kicked the BFF Brigade further down the road toward Cuttack, killing over 100 squads. That unit is toast.
I know BFF stands for "Burma Frontier Force" or something like that, but I can't help but think of them as the "Best Friends Forever" Brigade. No wonder they can't fight.....OMG![:D]
Reinforcements: I am careful to hold back some troops so Dan has to garrison the coast, but I am committing 1st Inf Div to Cochin, and 2 more Regts. to Cocanda area; object of all is to encircle Madras.
Subs: A couple turns ago, our subs sank 3 xAKS off Karachi. I have sunk a few xAKs in the last month, but nothing special. Dan hasn't sunk much either; he hit an empty tanker off Tarakan a couple weeks back, but it survived (which tankers rarely do). He was having amazing luck early-on with USN Torp hits exploding, but now they are all duds it seems.
Cochin: Cochin falls; the base force there surrenders. Even better, we hit a damaged sub in the harbor, and sink it, SS SALMON. She was crippled around Ceylon, and couldn't leave port.
NE India: A couple combats; we cloberred a couple Bns that were in our way to clear the rail line.
We can start to move a litte faster if we get the rail line cleared past Darjeeling.
Reinforcements: I am landing a division more each at Chittagong and Cocanda. I really need both at Cocanda, but one of them is prepped 100% for Calcutta, so sorta need to send it there.
Bears 20, Packers 17: Nothing better than beating the Packers and going 3-0. The last undefeated team in the NFC? The Bears are surprising me this year, in a good way!
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Bears 20, Packers 17: Nothing better than beating the Packers and going 3-0. The last undefeated team in the NFC? The Bears are surprising me this year, in a good way!
I knew there was a reason I was rootin for ya over that damn rebel!
Go bears. Heard a comment that "yea if it weren't for 18 penalties, the pack would have won". And I said, "yeah if it weren't for 18 penalties, there'd be 9 sacks of Rogers and a few long gains by the Bears!"
Bears: So far they are as lucky as they are good, but it's not like the Packers were being flagged for cheap penalties; alot of them were very obvious.
Combat Report, April 28-29,1942:
NE India: Still slow going; I need to clear that unit off the Rails to move more troops forward. The first trains are unloading at Tezpur for the march toward Darjeeling, and around Calcutta. Some cut-off units seem to be falling back on Ledo.
I attacked the cut-off defenders from Chittagong in the jungle to the East; it was a 1-2 attack, and I didn't do much. I only brought 1 unit. I will attack again, just to burn some supplies.
The 4 Bns from Akyab are either destroyed, starved, bombed, or evacuated. I am pretty sure I bombed a British Bn completely though.
Salem: There is an Indian Div at Salem; I am bringing up some reinforcements.
We had a big fight in the air over Salem; 10 Zeros were lost, but I shot down almost 30 RAF planes, including 6 Hurris, and 22 Bombers. I don't see alot of bombers anymore; I know from playing Allies that the RAF doesn't get many replacements, and it's tough to fill out units even if they just sit there. With all the losses, I think the RAF is about cooked. I see Mohawks and Buffalos in the skies, which makes me think he is also low on Hurricanes.
Lost AK: I lost an AK off Sidate, for no apparent reason; cause "Unknown", nothing in the Combat Reports or Ops Reports. We are landing a Nav gd at Sidate to liquidate the garrison at Menado, which I left behind. Oh well, c'est la guerre. Must have hit a rock or something.
Fleet Moves: I am moving most of my warships out of the Bay of Bengal. We are going to start to raid or annoy in the Pacific, and hope the USN comes out. KB is due for a bunch of AA upgrades soon, so unless the Allied CVs appear, I'll probably start those; one at a time though, and while KB is in a central position, probably Truk.
Lost AK: I lost an AK off Sidate, for no apparent reason; cause "Unknown", nothing in the Combat Reports or Ops Reports. We are landing a Nav gd at Sidate to liquidate the garrison at Menado, which I left behind. Oh well, c'est la guerre. Must have hit a rock or something.
"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown
Surprise at Bezweda: I sent the 10th IJA Division, a pretty good Division, toward Bezweda; I expected to cross the river, then await reinforcements. To my surprise, they clobbered the defenders, the 23rd Indian Division:
Ground combat at Bezwada (39,36)
Japanese Shock attack
Attacking force 13510 troops, 124 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 464
Defending force 7229 troops, 108 guns, 98 vehicles, Assault Value = 299
Allied ground losses:
2850 casualties reported
Squads: 82 destroyed, 52 disabled
Non Combat: 132 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 57 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 58 (55 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 45 (35 destroyed, 10 disabled)
Units retreated 1
Defeated Allied Units Retreating!
Assaulting units:
10th Division
Defending units:
23rd Indian Division
I think Dan forgot to take them out of STRATEGIC MODE. My unit was only prepped for Bezweda for 7 days, so to get a plus there, he should have prepped the unit for that (or maybe he couldn't, because they needed to continue to train). That division lost pretty much all it's artillery and engineers, which are hard to replace.
The Indian Army formations, at this stage, are very poor; they need training to build up adequate experience. The only units that start trained (on Ceylon and in Malaya), are all dead (or rebuilding).
Anyway, that's encouraging, because a clear path is open to Madras. It will be interesting to see what Dan does; allow his troops to be surrounded, or evacuate. I hope they stay, I would like to bag some units.
Salem: This town is defended by the 20th Indian Division, another recently-raised Division that isn't very good. We are going to bring up some vets and push them out.
Next Steps: I have yet to commit the 3 divisions plus tanks I have on Ceylon; Dan knows they are there, and so constitute an "Army in Being"; he can't 100% commit to anything until they are accounted for. I am just about ready, though, to toss them into the fight for Madras; I think I can close out Madras within 45 days or so, and force Dan to run or lose more units.
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The question has been poised as to whether Japan can achieve an auto victory by conquering India. Acquiring the necessary VPs (a 4:1 ratio in 1943, a 3:1 ratio in 1944) can be accomplished by several means, both independent of the capture of Allied bases and interrelated. For example, making Allied LCUs hors de combat both racks up Army Loss Points and in turn makes the capture of Allied cities easier by removing defending units from being able to participate in base defence.
Although the acquisition of VPs is a dynamic factor, one can look at the 7 December 1941 base VP distribution to see whether the conquest of India potentially can provide Japan with an auto VP victory.
The initial VP score distribution on 7 December 1941 is:
Table 1. Initial VP distribution
Japan 1407
Allied 11126
The large difference stems from the fact Japan controls only 29% of the global on map bases. Japanese bases average on 5.6 VP whereas Allied bases average 12.9 VP. This represents the higher Allied built up infrastructure.
If we limit ourselves to the historical mid 1942 Japanese conquests, the initial VP score will have been altered as follows:
The Allies would, in theory still be in front, but of course one should anticipate a substantial Japanese lead in Army and Ship Point Losses, which in practice would see Japan in the overall lead.
It is unlikely that a Japanese player would only achieve the historical conquests of Table 2 above. I think it is quite reasonable to assume that the following additional conquests listed in Table 3 below can be accomplished without jeopardising the second phase of operations involving the invasion of India, or Australia or Hawaii. Note that I have deliberately left out potential Japanese conquests in China.
Table 3. Incremental to Historical Japanese Conquests
Region, Japanese Gain, Allies Lose
Port Moresby, 280, 14
New Hebrides, 102, 3
New Caledonia, 34, 302
After Table3, the recalculated VPs would now be:
Japan 4398 + 416 = 4814
Allies 4687 – 319 = 4368
Japan now leads but even with the likely Japanese lead in other VPs, the total VP score by mid 1942 should still be well short of achieving an auto victory. The question is whether a conquest of India brings auto victory within reach.
Table 4. Japanese Conquest of India
Region, Japanese Gain, Allies Lose
Ceylon, 745, 78
Indian Ocean, 18, 75
India, 3157, 249
Potentially, Japan could gain 3920 and the Allies lose 402 from the conquest of India. The aggregate position after Table 4 would now be:
Japan 4814 + 3920 = 8734
Allies 4368 – 402 = 3966
Recalculating after Table 4, Japan would now have a 2.2:1 ratio. To get to a 4:1 ratio to allow for auto victory in 1943, approximately 7200 additional VPs would be required. However, in reality it is likely that the Allied player would have engaged in Indian base construction and therefore Japan would greatly benefit.
I would suggest that provided the Japanese player can keep to a minimum his army/airplane/ship losses throughout 1942, an auto victory is within reach. This would be because in conquering India, the Allies will probably suffer horrendous army point losses and probably lack the resources to defend Australia and New Zealand from a Japanese phase III offensive. The one thing which would impact upon Japanese phase III capabilities would be the huge Indian garrison requirements. Against that can be balanced that Japan can now focus on the eastern/southern, Pacific vector. With Australia effectively cut off from Cape Town/Abadan fuel resupply, Allied defences would be extremely stretched in 1942.
ALFRED/APREZTO: I can't even digest that long e-mail...I'll try later on. Alfred you usually have some interesting info, so I'll get to it. The VPs may come into play, though, given what is going on at the front....
Tezpur: Our spearheads are approaching the next dot down the tracks, I forget the name, that is only 4 road hexes from Calcutta. We are getting closer.
Units near Dacca mauled another Burma Bn; so far, other than the Chittagong garrison which is stuck in the jungle, I have only seen crappy Burma and Assam troops. Just delaying troops really. I have 4 units cornered at Dinapur/Ledo, but I'm sure they are just base forces and low-value garrison troops.
Salem: The 1st Division should reach the base tommorow; then, we attack.
ALLIED MOVES: I am approaching both Calcutta and Madras in such a way that the rail lines to both places will be blocked before we invest the towns. This would force Dan into a decision: Defend those spots in force, or withdraw. If he defended in force, I'm sure he would pull fragments of units, but leave enough combat power behind to create a speed bump for me.
Dan has now seen quite a few Divisions in India, and I'm pretty sure he hasn't seen all of them. I have 7 Divisions in the NE, and 3 in the South, with 3 more on Ceylon awaiting orders, and another at Singapore. I have 2000 PPs at this point, so I can buy another from Manchuria.
As a result, I think he is running. I would actually prefer he stand and fight against the IJA; the Battle of Bezweda showed how that would benefit me. But I think he is pulling a Russia; withdraw, and allow the vast space and garrison requirements of India to swallow up the IJA.
My bombers over Madras report only 1 unit present! I am sending a RECON flight tommorow to confirm, but if that's the case, I might just land right on it; this would cut off the Indian Division at Salem.
Diamond Harbor is down to 5 units (I am limited on supplies, so can't attack unfortunately), and I see units leaving Calcutta.
So, I think Dan is abandoning Eastern India.
If he is, what next? What should I do? My choices:
1. KEEP GOING: I will probably send spearheads forward regardless, but I have to be careful not to pick up alot of garrison requirements. I bet Dan is withdrawing behind the "Line of Death" near Delhi, i.e., the "Line of 6 Divisions of Reinforcements". I will certainly have a decision to make if I approach that line, though I am inclined not to trigger that bonanza.
2. CONSOLIDATE: I can't defend all of Eastern India; I can use it as a buffer, though, and I have inflicted some serious losses, notably destroying that UK Division on Ceylon, and about 2 Indian Divisions worth of decent troops.
Dan is probably planning evil somewhere, so if the offensive stops, I will be pulling units for another adventure, or to defend the Empire.
Run,Canoe, Run!: It's official: The Indian Army is running. Or, to be more accurate, steaming away on the Indian Railways.
Madras is down to one unit, probably the one that can't move. That means that occasionally the citizens will riot and trash the industry; that's fine, because I don't have the fuel to run Madras AND Calcutta anyway. We'll take our time to get there, rather than lose more ships in an amphib landing on the CD guns. It's not worth stopping the riots by losing ships.
I will take Calcutta, though, if Dan evacuates it. There are 20 units there, but he withdrew the troops from Diamond Harbor (which we will take tommorow), and I suspect alot of those 20 units are boarding trains for the West.
This was probably the right move for Dan, standing and fighting was only going to delay me a couple weeks, and probably get alot of his guys killed. I am going to capture/overrun some odds and ends, but nothing really drastic.
That combat at Bezweda must have had an impact on him; he saw what a disaster it was for the Indian Division, and decided multiple repeats of that would be very bad.
Next Steps: I had alot of units prepping for Calcutta, expecting a siege. That's now likely off. Instead, we'll start preps for targets in the interior, though not sure how far into Russia, er, India, we'll go.
TRACKER is going to be very helpful, because I plan to skip or bypass as many cities that require garrisons as I can. For example, BANGALORE; I don't want it. It's not worth many points, and I don't want to garrison it. IIRC, the Allies get a Static Fort there, so they are stuck there. I'm leaving it alone. Same for TRIVURADUM, or whatever that base is on the South Tip, and as many other bases as I can reasonably skip.
OOPS: I forgot to mention, Dan knows I have CVs at Soerbaya; some Zeros escorted the daily milk-run training raid on Pamakasan. Thanks, guys! The nearest Allied fighter was only 50 or so hexes away. Smart!
So, he knows I have something there. I am going to have to make a demonstration along the Indian Coast to convince him I might have a CV over there (which I don't, other than HOSHO).
Production Notes: The HELEN is in full production; I am still builidng Sallys, but will stop soon, and I turned off the Lily a long time ago. I get TOJOS next month, not that I need them really, with the Allied air forces very quiet, or dying in India.
The JUNYO hit the water. I have a Love/Hate relationship with the JUNYOS. Is it a CV? Or a CVL? Do you run it with KB? Or not? It's got some armor....but not very much. Overall a very unsatisfactory design, but beggars can't be choosers.
Once YAMATO hits the water in 16 days, I am going to accelerate the last 3 UNRYUS; the first 3 are aleady accelerated, and will build in mid-1943. TAIHO should hit the water in 2/43; nice and early!
TRACKER is going to be very helpful, because I plan to skip or bypass as many cities that require garrisons as I can. For example, BANGALORE; I don't want it. It's not worth many points, and I don't want to garrison it. IIRC, the Allies get a Static Fort there, so they are stuck there. I'm leaving it alone. Same for TRIVURADUM, or whatever that base is on the South Tip, and as many other bases as I can reasonably skip.
While I agree with this sentiment, isn't it risky? In particular, are there any of these prospectively bypassed towns that will be receiving reinforcements in the near future? Don't some of the Indian units spontaneously 'emerge' from some of these cities? Could these get into your rear and cause havoc?
The problem with Alfred's maths, which is impeccable as far as it goes, is that it doesn't take into account supply, port and airfield effects which act as a multiplicative effect and skew the finding such that the base numbers aren't all that useful.
As to what you should do:
You should never have invaded India unless you were planning, from Day 1, to go all the way. it is a bit late now but unless you try to go all the way you should just abandon the invasion and pull back into Burma or, at most, the Calcutta region. All or nothing, India isn't a place for half-measures.
John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.
Nemo: Perhaps; the objective in invading India wasn't to take the whole thing, but rack up enough points via bases and troops destruction to win auto-victory. Dan is probably doing the prudent thing and running, so the amount of troops I will destroy will probably settle in the 40K range; not insignificant, but not huge either.
I don't think India is takeable. But I don't think Australia is either, and Hawaii doesn't offer enough points for Auto-Victory; plus, it's a very very tough nut.
There is no obvious all-in knockout blow for the Empire. Pushing out into the Pacific is not appealing. Not sure what it cost me not going "all-in" at the beginning, because crossing the line of death and failing is worse than just taking 1/2 of India.
At least with this India incursion, I have accomplished the following so far:
1. Destruction of 1 UK and about 3 Indian Div equivalents, plus a bunch of smaller units
2. Attrition of the RAF pretty badly
3. Capture of HI and Oil/Fuel which will fuel war effort
4. Between the space created and losses, I should be able to blunt the effects of a UK/Indian counterattack through Burma. In fact, I highly doubt Dan will attempt to go that way unless it's just to fill space.
The conquest of Ceylon cost me 3 weeks in time, and netted 2 destroyed divisions; though the Allies got stronger those 3 weeks on the mainland, they also lost those units on Ceylon, which were not available for defense. Dan's main mistake in India was putting the 18th UK Division on Ceylon; he should have left Ceylon alone.
So, I don't regret going Ceylon first. Sure, it cost time, but netted returns in lost Allied troops, as well as much better protection for my supply lines to India. Ceylon is a real problem to an India conquest in allied hands.
