GC 41 2ndAcr (G) vs Kelblau (S) No Kelblau

[Flaviusx]

41 infantry could crack those forts, Pieter. These banged up landsers are not up to it.

[2ndACR]

Well, I have saves all the way back to turn 1 if you need any. I can provide them and password for review etc.

Good to know, I have faith that things will balance out, just need some tweaking.

[2ndACR]

I have PM'ed Kelblau and opened my AAR to him so he can offer his view too. But I see that he has started his own AAR now.

[ComradeP]

Like I wrote on the tester forum, 6 infantry divisions with a CV of 10 would still only get 1:1 odds on many of those forts. I've never believed that even 1941 infantry could crack lines of level 4 forts. Not across the entire frontline, in any case. You'd take ~1000 losses in each attack, at the least and probably a lot more if the VVS shows up with a huge IL-2 strike package, which will quickly drain infantry strength.

If you turtle too, 2ndACR, you should probably get a guaranteed minor victory, as your units are better and have higher construction values then his. Even with artillery divisions, hex row after hex row of level 4-5 forts will mean the Soviets are not going anywhere in a hurry.

[2ndACR]

I am trying to avoid going turtle. I could make him pay and pay dearly. But man that would be boring. Plus it denies the data we/you might need to help balance.

Well, I would make him pay until the historical TOE changes make me weaker. LOL

CV 10.....Heck I am throwing 6 Div with a CV of 400 at those level 4 forts and getting tossed back with 4-5,000 casualties. He shows up with 500+ CV to those battles.

[Flaviusx]

A German counterturtle would indeed be very tough to crack. I can't see the Sov doing much here before arty divisions come into play, and even after that given another 6 months to dig in and rest and refit, the German could turn even that into a slog.

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

I am trying to avoid going turtle. I could make him pay and pay dearly. But man that would be boring. Plus it denies the data we/you might need to help balance.

Well, I would make him pay until the historical TOE changes make me weaker. LOL

It would yield interesting results either way, actually, from a testing standpoint. Extreme stress tests of any kind do so, and we're certainly in a stress test situation here...

[2ndACR]

Okay, if that is what you guys want me to do, I will pull back and turtle hard. Say in my winter defensive line? Those forts are still strong.

Anything to help the game out.

[Senno]

I'm sorry ACR, but did you comment on the status of your Italian Air Force? VS the AI I'm only seeing 20 some planes max, and these are the old biplanes. I've only upgraded 5 to their newer model, and it's 11/42 for me. Are you seeing different numbers?

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Okay, if that is what you guys want me to do, I will pull back and turtle hard. Say in my winter defensive line? Those forts are still strong.

Anything to help the game out.

Nah, I'm not trying to push you into it, don't misunderstand me. However you choose to play this thing is worth following.

[2ndACR]

I can look for you. I just have not paid attention to the Allied air force. What do you want to know exactly? How many show up to a fight? How many I have active?

[2ndACR]

Not being pushed. We were planning a restart after the new patch anyway, so I have no problems with going turtle and continuing to gather data.

You want an extreme test case and we have one. Heck, turtle turns would go really fast. LOL. Until he decided to come play anyway.

Gotta step out for a few.

[Senno]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

I can look for you. I just have not paid attention to the Allied air force. What do you want to know exactly? How many show up to a fight? How many I have active?

How many total and how many active. In my game the Italian Air Force has only ever been about 24 planes max, without combat losses, even.

[Klydon]

Ouch, Soviets have some level 5 forts in there as well. Unreal.

Even with changes, there will be some Russians that try this for the most part because of the success here and some of the pros of doing it (Many of the AAR's have the Russians suffering heavy casualties in the winter offensive as well). The only way this tactic goes away (Russian turtle) is if it is proven the Germans will win most of the time if the Russians do not launch at least some type of winter offensive to bleed the Germans down given where the Germans got in this game from the 1941 offensive, which is somewhat typical of what has been happening so far.

[2ndACR]

Yep. here is the info you wanted Senno. I had to pull them all from the National Reserve. But they never filled up or upgraded.

[2ndACR]

And the Pool count. I got a/c.

[Senno]

Thank you 2ndACR, that's great. Looks like what I've seen, basically. Would a tester mind to comment on if that is how it should be? 20 or so old outdated planes? Maybe it's a known issue and I've just missed the bus, I suppose.

[2ndACR]

I would have to wait a turn to manually upgrade those a/c though. That was pulled off a recent save.

[Senno]

Oh yes, you're right. Thanks for the info. Husbanding the Axis Air Forces and trying to keep the partisans at manageable levels is a bit of a job, lol. I use the Italians to hopefully interdict partisan supply around the Kiev area.

[randallw]

If both of you sit there for months digging it there won't be major offensives until the later part of 1942 ( the Soviet player needing time to put together corps ).