41-45GC:1.05.28 M60A3TTS (Sov) v Pelton (Axis)

[M60A3TTS]

Week 72 and 73: 29.10-42- 5.11.42

The remaining two turns of mud as November arrives. Little action on either side, so both have a chance to rest up.
12th Tank Corps is redesignated 5th Guards Tank Corps.
5th Artillery Division is being organized.
Some armies are shifting divisions around to get under the command cap of 18.

OOB


Ground losses

[M60A3TTS]

Weeks 74-76. Three weeks of snow saw both sides continue to rest. Approximately 150,000 men joined the ranks of the Red Army to put total strength at close to 6.6 million. Meanwhile, since the summer campaign ended, over 800 panzers have joined German front line units.

Week 77- 3.12.42

With the rivers frozen, the blizzard offensive has begun. But it's Pelton's panzerwaffe that has struck, cutting through the Don Front. At least 17 panzer and 8 motorized divisions are identified as committed to the attack. Measures are underway to organize the Soviet defense.

End of Week 76


Start of Week 77

[randallw]

Woof! Now that's a fistfull of armor.

That's 15 identified Pz divs plus two unknown; that leaves a few unaccounted for.

[randallw]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Try to steer more tank corps into tank armies, and yeah, I know that's a hefty AP expense. That mech/admin bonus is kind of a big deal. It makes your historical tank leaders competitive with German ones.

Failing that, guards or shock armies give you an admin bonus which is more useful for mobile units than rifle units, imo. I'm actually planning on putting all my cav corps into shock armies until I run out of those. I figure you can squeeze them all in about 4 shock armies and not be overloaded.

So a shock army HQ provides an admin bonus? I thought it was just a morale bonus ( for non-Guards that are not 'specialized' units ).

[vlcz]

ORIGINAL: randallw

So a shock army HQ provides an admin bonus? I thought it was just a morale bonus ( for non-Guards that are not 'specialized' units ).

Another change in 1.05.059

c. Shock Armies and Guards Armies no longer provide a morale bonus to units that report to them (instead they provide a bonus of +1 to their leader’s admin rating).

I really need an upgraded manual or at least a changes log

[randallw]

Ah, I haven't gone to one of the patches released in the recent weeks yet.

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: randallw

Woof! Now that's a fistfull of armor.

That's 15 identified Pz divs plus two unknown; that leaves a few unaccounted for.

A further air recon shows all those unaccounted divisions in the same breakthrough area. [:(]

I don't know that there's an answer for this. Handling 25-30 mobile divisions seems downright impossible. If anyone has any suggestions, now would be a good time to raise them.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: randallw

Woof! Now that's a fistfull of armor.

That's 15 identified Pz divs plus two unknown; that leaves a few unaccounted for.

A further air recon shows all those unaccounted divisions in the same breakthrough area. [:(]

I don't know that there's an answer for this. Handling 25-30 mobile divisions seems downright impossible. If anyone has any suggestions, now would be a good time to raise them.

Be ready for the blizzard

I've seen this same über mass (aka concentrated) of mobile forces. I concur with what you say. That or I suck!

[M60A3TTS]

The Red Army is at 301 rifle divisions plus these tank, cav and rifle corps

[Flaviusx]

Where are your own mobile units at?

The only real answer is to pounce on them with everything you've got, and to keep uncommitted mobile units in reaction range of the panzers at all times. They can be counterattacked when they're out in the open like this.

I think you built too many rifle corps and not enough tank corps. 30 odd rifle corps in 1942 is a hefty expense. They're relatively immobile and cannot shift well dug in Germans without lavish artillery support. The pre-October TOE for them is unexceptional at best. Mass builds for these units really should wait until 1943. They're poorly suited for mobile defense. They're also inflexible in terms of reattachments. I actually prefer swarms of rifle divisions for this purpose. I would have built far fewer rifle corps. A half dozen or at most a dozen. And jacked up the numbers of tank corps and kept a wary eye on the panzers and left a substantial portion of them uncommitted nearby (but not too nearby. The trick is finding the right range for them to react without getting sucked into a pocket during the Axis turn.)

With 30 odd mobile corps (including cav corps) you should have enough to do some hitting and running while at the same time keeping the panzers honest.

BG was doing a pretty good job keeping the panzers down to a dull roar in his game with Q-ball, for whatever that's worth, ask him what he did. (I know he became disenchanted with the game, but I think he was managing things quite nicely.)

[randallw]

How effective can those tank corps be with those levels of morale/experience? Even with reasonable armor ratings for leaders that looks like a lot of T-34s about to die.

[Baelfiin]

Randal i think you wouold have to use them to make an attack then scamper back to a more protected position,

[76mm]

What kind of strategic reserves do you have? At this point in game I had two full fronts in reserve and was more of afraid of the small local encirclements than the big stuff like this, which could be countered by my strategic reserves (although of course it will be fun making sure that your reserves are not pocketed in the process!).

Great AAR, now go get him!

[M60A3TTS]

Week 78- 10.12.42

Pelton pockets six more divisions and rapidly expands the breach. His forces head north and south, threatening a pocket of the Volkhov and Voronezh Fronts. Penza falls.

[randallw]

If you feel desperate you may want to try running beyond his supply radius. He can't possibly drop enough fuel/supply to keep all those divisions close to full.

[kevini1000]

It looks as though he is also taking advantage of the rail line situation in this area as well.

[Encircled]

If those Pz and Motorised units are single stacks, then it should be very easy indeed to rout them.

If you have reserves that is!

A '42 German motorised division, with over 50% fatigue, little fuel and in the open will be lucky if it defends at strength "4", and Panzers are just as bad.

If you have no reserves, then he can do it, but if you do, then enjoy!

[Flaviusx]

Yes, I quite agree. It's totally possible to smack single German mobile divisions at the ragged edge of a breakthrough, particularly in clear terrain. This is doable from the getgo as a matter of fact (I've done it as early as turn 2.) But if you haven't got the forces to respond, then it's a no go.

[kevini1000]

You might have to just hang on till 43 now. I wouldn't expect Pelton to attack like this in 43. He'll still attack but not in this manner.

[Q-Ball]

I think B-G did a few things to keep me limited, because I would really have liked to roam the way Pelton is.

Primarily, B-G had depth to his defenses. His typical structure was only a single Rifle Division up-front, and usually only 1 more in the 2nd row. The strongest units were placed, and dug-in, 3-5 hexes back of the front.

I have noticed M60 that you have alot of double and triple stacks up front. This is not a good idea (it ONLY is if you are defending a river line or something that would make it impregnible). The reason is that German Infantry with Panzer support can move almost ANY stack in clear terrain. What German Infantry has much more trouble with is moving a stack 3 hexes back of the front, after having to fight through 2 units. Once Panzers have to spend 16 MPs blowing through that 3rd hex back of the front, it doesn't leave much for exploitation.

You need to stack less and spread out more. Never have more than 1 unit right at the front. Of course this means that those single units are vulnerable to attack all the time, but the Germans won't push all of them willy-nilly, because the losses would really pile up for the Wehrmacht doing that. Unlike 1941, in 1942 a straight-up fight on a single Rifle unit will typically kill 2 Russians for every German; not a favorable ratio. That is, unless the unit routs.

That's what B-G did, and it was effective. I managed to consistently pocket some units, but never acheived a runaway, and all that fighting meant my losses in summer of 1942 haven't been light.

PS: Rifle Corps are not defensive units, and should not be built until you have the overall initative (or it's at least even). Rifle Divisions are not assault units, but are just fine for defense, as even if they lose, they can inflict losses on the attackers.