Field Marshal von Fogger vs Comrade Marshal Fulkerson

[larryfulkerson]

John surprised me again. I was in the process of moving units when I noticed an Axis recon unit that was on MY side of the river as I
wasn't expecting any of that yet. So I moved in and pressed the recon unit back onto the engineer unit that was astride the river. D'oh.
So now I've got to scrape up some units to block this new threat.

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Here's a close up of C-town now. It appears that John has shipped in some tanks and if he's done that he's serious about staying there
because I don't think he would risk his tanks unless he was planning on expanding his bridgehead and staying a while. I expect some
more shipments in future turns.

Err.. supply? I think he has no supply down there. Or is there a supply point in the port he captured?

[fogger]

I would love to post more but my time is limited. It is either post or play. But having said that I will try and post more.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: fogger
I would love to post more but my time is limited. It is either post or play. But having said that I will try and post more.

Play, definately play. But having said that, please feel free to post whatever you'd like. You're definately welcome.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Telumar
Err.. supply? I think he has no supply down there. Or is there a supply point in the port he captured?

I checked out the hex in question and the Soviets don't have one there and I daresay the Axis doesn't have one there either. So the
units John landed at that port are surviving on the supply that comes in through that port. However much that is. We'll have to get John
to tell us, rather, show us w/ a picture, what supply level he has there.

[Telumar]

I can tell you that: Zero. No supply point - no supply, despite the port.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Telumar
I can tell you that: Zero. No supply point - no supply, despite the port.

That sounds good to me. Probably bad news to John. Does it make any difference if we have high supply turned on? We do.

[fogger]

I am not sure now but I thought that the airfield provided limited support. can someone please advise.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: fogger
I am not sure now but I thought that the airfield provided limited support. can someone please advise.

It's been so long ago that I read the manual for TOAW that I'm not sure whether or not the airport can provide any supply
support but it makes sense that it would. I know in WITE the presence of an airfield inside a surrounded Soviet group DOES give
some limited supply and keeps the group from being "surrounded" so to speak. I'll bet someone like Telumar would know something
like this. Maybe he'll post something. Meanwhile I suppose I should take a look at the manual, the PDF manual.

EDIT: I scanned the PDF manual just now and couldn't find any reference to supply from an airport. We may have to ask Bob.

EDIT2: I edited the Ron's Mod version 10 scenario to sortof replicate our situation and looked for some supply there. No joy. I don't
see any supply point nor any supply level points in the hex. Your mileage may vary.

[larryfulkerson]

I don't know about you but I'm kind of curious to know what John's losses look like now. I don't know what they are but I can supply us w/
an estimate. I'm playing FITE against the Soviet AI and this are the T11 losses in that game. John's losses would presumably be in the
same ballpark.

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

ORIGINAL: fogger
I am not sure now but I thought that the airfield provided limited support. can someone please advise.

It's been so long ago that I read the manual for TOAW that I'm not sure whether or not the airport can provide any supply
support but it makes sense that it would. I know in WITE the presence of an airfield inside a surrounded Soviet group DOES give
some limited supply and keeps the group from being "surrounded" so to speak. I'll bet someone like Telumar would know something
like this. Maybe he'll post something. Meanwhile I suppose I should take a look at the manual, the PDF manual.

EDIT: I scanned the PDF manual just now and couldn't find any reference to supply from an airport. We may have to ask Bob.

EDIT2: I edited the Ron's Mod version 10 scenario to sortof replicate our situation and looked for some supply there. No joy. I don't
see any supply point nor any supply level points in the hex. Your mileage may vary.

Don't ask Bob, he might be "frying much bigger fish"..

Ok, seriously, there is NO supply. NO supply can be traced through/via/by/from a port an/or an airport across deep sea/air if there is no supply point set.

I would suggest any future version to have a minor supply point in each black sea port hex (maybe someone can find something about port capacities in the 40ies).

[Josh]

In my book *any* port should have at least some supply capacity... depending on the level of destruction and/or enemy interdiction.
You can be damn sure that *if* a commander sends his forces across a water he also has a supply plan, either by barges or the Luftwaffe. Well maybe Rommel didn't as he could live from what he captured.
 
@ Larry
 
"Yeah, I wish John would post more, hint, hint. I don't know about you guys but I like pictures that have some verbage w/ it to explain
what the picture is showing......like a comic book kind of thing. Because one picture can tell many many words worth of info."
 
Totally agree. Makes the AAR more lively and pleasant to read. I remember some epic HOI AAR's, they included many pictures and stories and read like a history book. 

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: Josh

In my book *any* port should have at least some supply capacity... depending on the level of destruction and/or enemy interdiction.
You can be damn sure that *if* a commander sends his forces across a water he also has a supply plan, either by barges or the Luftwaffe. Well maybe Rommel didn't as he could live from what he captured.

Totally agree, except for Rommel but that was meant as rhetorical exxageration i suppose..

Well, the problem is the scenario design and not the engine. Make every port and airfield automatically a (minimal) supply point (and this in TOAWs supply system..) and you've lost a good deal of engine/design flexibility.

[fogger]

Had a bad day at work yesterday and today. Still getting phone calls at 10pm so I have not had a chance to start turn 11 apart from watching Larry's moves. Here is the pictiure in the north. I recieved some reinforments this turn and found 2 inf div's that I had been moving north and forgot about. They would have swung the battle for Murmansk last turn. Larry has shipped in another inf div and moved some units back into Murmansk. South of Murmansk Larry was defending with 1 armour 1 inf div + an arty Regt and corp hq. He has now broken contact and withdrawing. I will chase until I reach the bridge and then dig in.

[fogger]

My losses in heavy inf is 10,100 squads and total tank losses are 570.

As a rersult of the discussion about the support or lack of it at the port on hexe 145 225 I have started my withdrawal. The Tank Bn's + 2 inf regts and 2 comdo coy's are out. 1 inf regt and 1 comdo coy are holding the port to be withdrawn next turn.

[Telumar]

Ouch. Please add according s_tiles to AltGraphics..

Re unsupplied invasion of the Crimea: Don't feel pressed to conduct a withdrawal. If you think you have an advantage despite being unsupplied then carry on (though i assume it's too late by now).

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Telumar
Ouch. Please add according s_tiles to AltGraphics..

That's one way to fix that eyesore. Another thing you might consider is playing w/ the hex grid turned off. It's fun-er.

[Petey]

I would have expected larger Axis tank losses.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: Petey
I would have expected larger Axis tank losses.

Yeah, me too. So I'm comparing John's tank losses w/ my anti-AI game and they are similar so I guess that's accurate. D'oh.

[governato]

Historically Axis tank losses were a lot (2x?) higher, but mostly due to operational attrition (breakdowns). TOAW does not model that, so they have to be taken care of in the scenario design.