8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

[STEF78]

Real life let me today enough time to read the 3 threads about this game.

I'm really impressed! What a colossal project. Congratulations

Concerning the game itself, I think that the german side has slight advantage They did a very good job in the South and in the north Leningrad has Fallen The finns are blocked in the far north but it's not a real issue.

The battle for Moscow will be decisive!

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
No, it wasn't a fat finger. I only did two because I didn't have enough railcap left. I'll send you the rest later.

Moscow is a good choice to evacuate them to!

That U-2VS airbase didn't get much in the way of Luftwaffe love this turn, so like an obstinate child, it will kick and scream (by bombing you) you until you do. You're going to do my job for me whether you want to or not. [:'(]

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
No, it wasn't a fat finger. I only did two because I didn't have enough railcap left. I'll send you the rest later.

Moscow is a good choice to evacuate them to!

That U-2VS airbase didn't get much in the way of Luftwaffe love this turn, so like an obstinate child, it will kick and scream (by bombing you) you until you do. You're going to do my job for me whether you want to or not. [:'(]

I want to - we have lots of arriving bomber boys who want the practice! Just ran out of airfield bombing miles this time. Ask the coders to extend the 33%! But I think this confirms you are in the U2-VS club!

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: Telemecus



Moscow is a good choice to evacuate them to!

That U-2VS airbase didn't get much in the way of Luftwaffe love this turn, so like an obstinate child, it will kick and scream (by bombing you) you until you do. You're going to do my job for me whether you want to or not. [:'(]

I want to - we have lots of arriving bomber boys who want the practice! Just ran out of airfield bombing miles this time. Ask the coders to extend the 33%! But I think this confirms you are in the U2-VS club!

Next time I play I think I'm going to hold onto some U2's. I seem to kill a lot of AA guns (like the 88's) So I'm rethinking some things on these WWI era planes. They may be useful after all. But have to test things more

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Next time I play I think I'm going to hold onto some U2's. I seem to kill a lot of AA guns (like the 88's) So I'm rethinking some things on these WWI era planes. They may be useful after all. But have to test things more

Oh no - the body snatchers got you too! What else have they done to your mind - spreadsheets?

[DeletedUser1769703214]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Next time I play I think I'm going to hold onto some U2's. I seem to kill a lot of AA guns (like the 88's) So I'm rethinking some things on these WWI era planes. They may be useful after all. But have to test things more

Oh no - the body snatchers got you too! What else have they done to your mind - spreadsheets?

No, no spreadsheets yet probably make me a much better player though.

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: Telemecus



Moscow is a good choice to evacuate them to!

That U-2VS airbase didn't get much in the way of Luftwaffe love this turn, so like an obstinate child, it will kick and scream (by bombing you) you until you do. You're going to do my job for me whether you want to or not. [:'(]

I want to - we have lots of arriving bomber boys who want the practice! Just ran out of airfield bombing miles this time. Ask the coders to extend the 33%! But I think this confirms you are in the U2-VS club!

I would never join a club that would have me as a member.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS




That U-2VS airbase didn't get much in the way of Luftwaffe love this turn, so like an obstinate child, it will kick and scream (by bombing you) you until you do. You're going to do my job for me whether you want to or not. [:'(]

I want to - we have lots of arriving bomber boys who want the practice! Just ran out of airfield bombing miles this time. Ask the coders to extend the 33%! But I think this confirms you are in the U2-VS club!

I would never join a club that would have me as a member.

Unless you're conscripted. [:D]

[M60A3TTS]

15 September 1941

From AP Wire Services

Radio Moscow reports that the trial of Defendant Hortlundski ended with the accused found guilty of the crimes specified under Articles 58-1b, 58-11 RSFSR Criminal Code.

First Secretary of the USSR Josef Stalin reviewed and approved the courts findings. The defendant was executed at an unnamed location.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

15 September 1941

From AP Wire Services

Radio Moscow reports that the trial of Defendant Hortlundski ended with the accused found guilty of the crimes specified under Articles 58-1b, 58-11 RSFSR Criminal Code.

First Secretary of the USSR Josef Stalin reviewed and approved the courts findings. The defendant was executed at an unnamed location.

Execution is too good for him. [:D] The Soviets should have used impalement, or drawn, quartered, and crucified.

[M60A3TTS]

If Voroshilov loses Moscow, he may fare no better. [8|]

[Telemecus]

Teasing aside I do hope Panzerjaegar Hortlund does get back in touch. Hopefully whatever kept them gets sorted.

Having planted an acorn that Stef78 above calls a "colossal project" which now has the enthusiasm and commitment of so many is something to be proud of. And with a brother team game that would make PH a grandfather - or is that mixing metaphors too much?

I do hope when PH reads this they can get in touch as I do find it interesting to compare notes after the event - a sort of post-match analysis. And I was also interested in a sort of lessons learned about team games which PH's experience of the early turns from the Soviet side would be useful to know.

[M60A3TTS]

Turn 15 is in dropbox.

[Telemecus]

Turn 15 in dropbox - and I think the first time for a full four member team on the third day.

Who says we cannot go faster than the actual event???!!! [:D]

[M60A3TTS]

For those following this thread, I would make a suggestion of adding a house rule in your games. Specifically, both sides should be prohibited from conducting what amounts to precision bombing of industrial targets within cities by night. It was basically impossible with the technology of the day and doesn't even rate a "what-if?" discussion. It took the USAAF two years just to get a daylight precision raid down.

[Zorch]

I entirely agree.
The Soviets might have known where German factories were through espionage, but how could the Germans even know where the Soviet factories were?

[charlie0311]

My father flew 44 missions in B-17s over Germany mostly in '44 made a carreer of the AF and got pretty far.

US never got remotely close to precision bombing.

Along with a hr for no fantasy bombing we should get rid of all the other fantasy stuff. hehe

[M60A3TTS]

It was one thing for crews of He-111s in 1940 to cross the English Channel at night and based on known landmarks, be able to make their way to London and drop bombs on some part of the city. It's another to try and fly from west of Moscow to the city of Gorky with little appreciable means of navigating their way there, fly over a city under blackout conditions, and drop bombs anywhere near an area that you think contains a factory. We'll ignore minor details like inclement weather over the target area at times making bombing all but useless, and the lack of in-game barrage balloons that would take the wing off your attacking bomber if you flew low enough. Those are the kinds of things that aren't appropriate for a game of this type anyways, but the simplified air rules make it possible to do the impossible. The whole day-night bombing option seems to only be appropriate for those aircraft designed to be used at night, ie. U2VS. Even bombing airbases at night is a questionable activity. A relatively small target such as an airfield operating under blackout conditions would be difficult to find and attack neither effectively nor consistently. We're not talking about bombing Heathrow after all.

[charlie0311]

They all know.. and the rail fantasy, they can all find and read the posts (relevant) right in the forums. other stuff as well.

But, you see, the fun is what's most important, if the facts can fit the fun, then ok, if not, make up new facts, plenty of "history" just for this purpose.

It's pretty fun to plenty of guys to hunt and hunt and find things that get you an edge in game play. Just clicking it in and watching it happen is pretty fun.

Some like to post these exploits in aar's and bathe in the praise of the fan base. Another kind of fun, the human kind, we like the attention.

Then some guys who are more interested in some kind sportsmanship if such creatures even exist anymore maybe see this and choose to stay away.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
I would make a suggestion of adding a house rule in your games. Specifically, both sides should be prohibited from conducting what amounts to precision bombing of industrial targets within cities by night.

I have some sympathy with this as it does seem strange you can fly across the Soviet Union to hit one precise kind of factory. My own thoughts were more that you could not bomb "named" factories trying to get at choke points. However I do think bombing general industry should be OK.

However I do feel that such a house rule or change by the developers needs to be accompanied by restricting some of the Soviet air forces to the rear areas for their industrial defence. Historically Soviet air forces did not just bunch up together close to the front. They had many aircraft because they were a big country with a lot to defend. There was never a time when virtually the whole Soviet Union was left without air cover and defenceless. Nor a time when all the air forces could just concentrate on the front lines.

Clearly it is not an exploit but an intended facet of the game. To be fair to the developers the Soviet factories were not comparable to the ones in the west or in the Reich. They were vast complexes integrating the whole supply chain. Eddie Chapman, the double agent for the British, could credibly fake a sabotage attack on a British aircraft factory because it was so small. It had hundreds of suppliers scattered over Britain which in turn had their own suppliers. If they were all co-located this would be the size of a town or small city in itself. So a Soviet factory was a more credible target even if you were only likely to hit the upstream supply line rather than the final assembly. So it was possible to find out where they were and that daylight bombing of these is not too incredible. Just maybe exaggerated and not what the Eastern front happened to be about (it was in the Barbarossa directive for the end of the campaign though).

However so far in all AARs and guides the point has always been made that strategic bombing is a waste of Axis air force resources. One thing I hoped to show is that it is not. Does this mean I have succeeded? I believe it is worthwhile for "named" factories although is more debatable for general industry. There are two critical weaknesses. One is that 1% damage on an expanding factory which has a long way to go in its expansion creates disproportionate losses. The other is that while damage is cumulative, repair is only sequential. So the first 1% damage matters very little. But an extra 1% damage on top of a lot of existing damage is catastrophic if it lasts for so many turns.

So perhaps a first lesson for all games is do not leave the Soviet Union without fighter cover. We had so many turns of uncontested, unopposed, unescorted, free daylight bombing that large damage levels were built up. Now there are significant probabilities that factories will shut down. And so it does make sense to fly opposed bombing missions even if they only got a few percentage points of damage because they will last for so long.

Bottom line for Soviet players - on turn 1 get some fighter cover for your factories. Do not let the genie out of the bottle. Do not react when it is too late. The norm should be little strategic bombing as it is ineffective, but significant air forces committed across the rear as a deterrent to make sure it is ineffective.