Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis)

[GiveWarAchance]

From my games, it seems Spain has a decent chance of joining the Axis. I had two games with Spain joining me without me invading the Morocco & Algiers but I did spend chits on it. I really like having Spain joining in but it does give the USA a nice big target to land in.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: GiveWarAchance

From my games, it seems Spain has a decent chance of joining the Axis. I had two games with Spain joining me without me invading the Morocco & Algiers but I did spend chits on it. I really like having Spain joining in but it does give the USA a nice big target to land in.

If you play the AI, they usually don't contest your diplotarget. It's a different matter in PBEM play.

[Sugar]

Tourney result tells the story of a allied leaning.

Do you personally believe the Allies to have the edge? I don't. The coming changes will make it harder and more unlikely to get Spain into the Axis, and at generally higher consequences; I think that's better for balancing.

If you and others believe that the Axis could have operated 1000s of aircraft in Africa then we will have to agree to disagree.

Yes, I believe the Axis could supply the same amount of aircraft as the Allies theoretically and under certain preconditions, with the occupation of Malta being one of them. The Allies had undoubtly "thousands" of aircraft operating in NA:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunisian_Campaign#cite_note-Mitcham78-1

The Allies also captured more than 600 aircraft in Tunesia.

If you want to have a historical situation, you want another game. This is not how the SC series was meant to be since 2003.

[GiveWarAchance]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

ORIGINAL: GiveWarAchance

From my games, it seems Spain has a decent chance of joining the Axis. I had two games with Spain joining me without me invading the Morocco & Algiers but I did spend chits on it. I really like having Spain joining in but it does give the USA a nice big target to land in.

If you play the AI, they usually don't contest your diplotarget. It's a different matter in PBEM play.

The AI always fights my diplo and seems to score a lot more swings in opinions than I do like all the nations I care about like Sweden, Turkey, Finland, Spain and other stuff get fairly frequent opinion swings to allies. In most games I couldn't accomplish anything with the diplo chits. Most probably the AI has been improved a lot in patches since you played against it last.

[Ktonos]

Is the game over?

[KorutZelva]

All but, yes. [:D]

Allies expelled from France making a fortress out of London.

Axis about to conquer Turkey.

Germans offered 'generous' terms after taking Stalingrad.

But it's November 1943... so I'm just a couple of turns short of my new goal of lasting until 1944 so I had to refuse. [:'(]

[Sugar]

Germans offered 'generous' terms after taking Stalingrad.

Wtf? I wasn't asked for that.

Is the game over?

A matter of time. Turkey fell after 2 turns, Murmansk is occupied, SU`s income down to 600; with the railway restored Axis' troops can operate from Narvik to Cairo, with all those nice ressources in Middle East expanding production.

[PvtBenjamin]

So if two skilled players play and the Axis wins in 1943/44 its hard to argue that the game is tilted towards the Allies.

[Ktonos]

With all due respect to KZ but Sugar is casually considered 1 step ahead of everyone and he constantly proves it.

I have played 30, I think, PBEMs, half with Allies, half with Axis. Lost 3 of my allied games, lost more than half of my axis games. I'd say its like Allied games: 12-3, Axis games: 6-8. Now it may be that between high skill Axis is better and between med skill Allies are better, but I really think that the game has a very fine balance between the two powers. There can never be a thing as absolute perfect.

[PvtBenjamin]

I'm not arguing that the game significantly favors the Axis. I agree that its probably fairly close. Many argue it greatly favors Allies which I disagree with.

But its 1943, 1943!. Maybe they should switch sides, it would help answer a lot of questions.

[GiveWarAchance]

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

I'm not arguing that the game significantly favors the Axis. I agree that its probably fairly close. Many argue it greatly favors Allies which I disagree with.

But its 1943, 1943!. Maybe they should switch sides, it would help answer a lot of questions.

Ya very good. If those two great titans switch sides, it would make for another nice game.

I know I'm just a worthless unwanted noob squawking from the sidelines, but my impression is that the game is nicely balanced, and a few extra allied victories here & there is a good thing considering historically the overwhelming advantages the allies had over poor beleaguered Germany. If I made a WW2 game, I would give the allies a strong late game advantage so Germany can either aggressively try to win in early war or grind out a long, heroic defense.

[Elessar2]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

All but, yes. [:D]

Allies expelled from France making a fortress out of London.

I guess his tanks and tacs made short work of your invasion force? The Allied air was helpless to do anything?


The real question which must be answered-are there any valid counter-strategies to Sugar's usual Axis script?

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Elessar2

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

All but, yes. [:D]

Allies expelled from France making a fortress out of London.

I guess his tanks and tacs made short work of your invasion force? The Allied air was helpless to do anything?


The real question which must be answered-are there any valid counter-strategies to Sugar's usual Axis script?

Something like that. I manage to evacuate the majority my units but once my tanks were culled it was a matter of time.

I would say what I used a viable 'counter-strategy'. I brought my own strategy down with poor unit management especially the air war (I only played 10 or so pbem games by now, remember!) but the principles used were sound. The main tweak I would do is to pursue Spy & Intel with all Allied power (well except France and Poland of course) and have the UK invest in long range flight.

[Sugar]

I guess his tanks and tacs made short work of your invasion force?

I was able to place my units in favourable terrain/supply and also had the first strike for some reason.

The Allied air was helpless to do anything?

Allthough being outnumbered 3:2, my med. bombers could reach some of his fighters, while my fighters could reach his tac. bombers, destroying 3-4 each during the following 2 turns.

Having the first strike always leads into a dilemma to the opponent: should he stand and reinforce the surviving units or should he retreat, leaving the damaged units in bad shape?

The real question which must be answered-are there any valid counter-strategies to Sugar's usual Axis script?

Yes. [:D]

[Harun]

Thought:

The Germans had zero units in France.

Why would supply be at scorched earth levels?

In real life, if Germany had zero occupation troops in France, and the allies walked in, I would not expect supply to be low. Who's blowing bridges and wrecking stuff?

What "fighting" is destroying port facilities?

I don't blame the game for this, its just a thought. The power of operational movement allows for zero garrison.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Harun

Thought:

The Germans had zero units in France.

Why would supply be at scorched earth levels?

In real life, if Germany had zero occupation troops in France, and the allies walked in, I would not expect supply to be low. Who's blowing bridges and wrecking stuff?

What "fighting" is destroying port facilities?

I don't blame the game for this, its just a thought. The power of operational movement allows for zero garrison.

In this one particular instance it's easy. The allies! [:D] I mistakenly used a strat bomber on paris, tanking my supply as my invasion begun. (tech 3 US tac bombers look so similar) That one mistake probably cost me thousands of mpp of extra damage in battle because of my units reduced readiness. [X(]

But I mean, if all of occupied France is held by a single garrison in Paris, I'm thinking the French could have liberated themselves without me. [:'(]

[Sugar]

Same question during the start of Barbarossa, leaving nearly all towns and cities in western SU undefended.

Alltogether the Allied ground forces were to weak in numbers.

[bullet911]

[quote]ORIGINAL: Sugar
I was able to place my units in favourable terrain/supply and also had the first strike for some reason



hopefully its not just me that doesn't 100% understands this, or missed it if its been talked about before. But could you elaborate on "favourable terrain/supply" for your airforce
does it make much difference in attacking when placed in open terrain/hills/forests? obviously there attached to a HQ but say in Russian with the long range tech did you keep them at the few city's with supply 6 or did they work just as well with the towns a supply 5

[Harun]

I use the NATO counters because of that exact issue! The 3D models are cool, but I'm not so good at telling them apart.

[room]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

The real question which must be answered-are there any valid counter-strategies to Sugar's usual Axis script?

Yes. [:D]

Don't make me ask, I wannna seeee it [8D]