What program/film/documentary are you watching now?

[berto]

I can report back, but without saying too much. A highly controversial topic and documentary, to be sure. I/we need to watch what we say, we should be careful not to quarrel. A pity if this venerable "What program/film/documentary are you watching now?" thread were to be locked over this.

[durangokid]

If anyone wants to see the 10-hour international cut of the Ken Burns Vietnam series in the UK, BBC 4 will be showing it starting at 2100 on Monday 25 September.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: berto


I can report back, but without saying too much. A highly controversial topic and documentary, to be sure. I/we need to watch what we say, we should be careful not to quarrel. A pity if this venerable "What program/film/documentary are you watching now?" thread were to be locked over this.

Of course it is controversial, but I'm asking you for your perspective on the show, not your opinion about the historical / political events of the time. I firmly believe that you will be able to negotiate that minefield with aplomb.

[VPaulus]

I don't see us locking a thread like this, we would rather delete offending posts if needed...

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: durangokid

If anyone wants to see the 10-hour international cut of the Ken Burns Vietnam series in the UK, BBC 4 will be showing it starting at 2100 on Monday 25 September.

warspite1

Thank-you, I will take a look at this.

[Lecivius]

I'm not going to watch it. I have a...highly unusual...perspective on what went on over there. Just thinking on it sometimes drives me into depression for weeks.

[geofflambert]

I'm still really steamed Ken Burns left Stan Musial out of "Baseball"! [:@][:-][;)]

[geofflambert]

I do believe he covered Joe Garagiola and Yogi Berra, two boys from the Hill here.

[berto]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I'm still really steamed Ken Burns left Stan Musial out of "Baseball"! [:@][:-][;)]

At the risk of stirring controversy ... yes, I too was steamed by his Baseball documentary series. It was Yankees, Yankees, (Red Sox), Yankees. Chauvinistic much?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I'm not going to watch it. I have a...highly unusual...perspective on what went on over there. Just thinking on it sometimes drives me into depression for weeks.

Might not be so unusual as you think, Lecivius. If you're up to it (after a few beers, natch), I'd love to hear your thoughts in person one day.

[spence]

But I found its repeated focus on the political aspects of the war (particularly later in the series) to not be what I was looking for.

Something I read in "ON STRATEGY" many years ago is pertinent here. I have to paraphrase it cause I no longer have the book. I think it was at the start of Chapter 1.

Said the American Colonel to the North Vietnamese Colonel at the Paris Peace Talks; "You know, you never defeated us on the battlefield".

Said the North Vietnamese Colonel to the American Colonel, "That may be so, but it is also irrelevant".

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: spence

But I found its repeated focus on the political aspects of the war (particularly later in the series) to not be what I was looking for.

Something I read in "ON STRATEGY" many years ago is pertinent here. I have to paraphrase it cause I no longer have the book. I think it was at the start of Chapter 1.

Said the American Colonel to the North Vietnamese Colonel at the Paris Peace Talks; "You know, you never defeated us on the battlefield".

Said the North Vietnamese Colonel to the American Colonel, "That may be so, but it is also irrelevant".

Maybe to two fellow professional officers that have arrived at the Paris Peace Talks by whatever roads. But to me, as a discriminating viewer with limited time for retreads of historical political narrative disguised as military documentary, it's very much relevant.

[charlie0311]

Wut?...???

Somebody here can smell the bull, at least the really smelly stuff,hehe

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: berto


I can report back, but without saying too much. A highly controversial topic and documentary, to be sure. I/we need to watch what we say, we should be careful not to quarrel. A pity if this venerable "What program/film/documentary are you watching now?" thread were to be locked over this.

Of course it is controversial, but I'm asking you for your perspective on the show, not your opinion about the historical / political events of the time. I firmly believe that you will be able to negotiate that minefield with aplomb.

I have only navigated the first two episodes but I am enjoying it. I have spent a lot of time studying the war over my life so there are few surprises so far. I find it to be balanced and very moving at times. Neil Sheehan's brilliant biography of John Paul Vann is one of my favorite books on Vietnam and it is nice to see Sheehan commenting on this documentary. One of the upcoming episodes focuses on "racism" in the war. I suspect it will touch on some raw nerves but perhaps we need to rub some skin on this one. Sometimes you need 50 years to really sit back and objectively digest an event.

[spence]

Maybe to two fellow professional officers that have arrived at the Paris Peace Talks by whatever roads. But to me, as a discriminating viewer with limited time for retreads of historical political narrative disguised as military documentary, it's very much relevant.

The point of the book was that North Vietnam actually had a sound strategy with an achievable objective whereas the United States violated virtually every strategic principle and never had any strategic plan to bring the war to a successful conclusion. All we did was kill the enemy in large numbers in the mistaken belief that their society functioned like ours and that they'd give up if we killed enough of them...and apparently we didn't even know what number that was.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: spence

Maybe to two fellow professional officers that have arrived at the Paris Peace Talks by whatever roads. But to me, as a discriminating viewer with limited time for retreads of historical political narrative disguised as military documentary, it's very much relevant.

The point of the book was that North Vietnam actually had a sound strategy with an achievable objective whereas the United States violated virtually every strategic principle and never had any strategic plan to bring the war to a successful conclusion. All we did was kill the enemy in large numbers in the mistaken belief that their society functioned like ours and that they'd give up if we killed enough of them...and apparently we didn't even know what number that was.

My comment was not in reference to the origin of the quote (the book you cite), but the quote / anecdote itself. And the quote's reference to the Ken Burns Vietnam documentary series. Also not interested in a diatribe about whether or not the war in Vietnam was executed in a strategically sound manner, spence.

Let's keep this on topic lest this good thread be locked up.

[VPaulus]

One of the things that I really enjoy in Ken Burns documentaries, is the human side of the issue.
In both Civil War and The War, we were listening to written testimonies, most coming from private letters... they were very touching and sometimes one could almost even say brutal.
Here, we have the real people, amplifying their testimony with their own presence and voice.
Testimonies like the one given by Karl Marlantes (Marines 1969), hearing his voice tone, looking at the facial expression and noticing some burst blood vessels on his eyes... it makes everything more vivid:

"We had started walking up and we had probably gotten about a third of the way up the hill and then they unleashed on us.
We were in the middle of this horrible shit sandwich. That's what we called it.

One of the things that I learned in the war is that we're not the top species on the planet because we're nice.
People talk a lot about how well the military turns, you know, kids into, you know, killing machines and stuff.
And I'll always argue that it's just finishing school."

This is a personal angle on the war and into the human condition, that I personally value a lot.
I feel that I owe these men and women this much... listen to what they have to say.

[Chickenboy]

I checked out Marlantes' audiobook "What it's Like To Go To War" a few months ago. Riveting. Some of the philosophical stuff nearer the end is a little 'out there', but it bears listening to nonetheless.

[Chickenboy]

Subject change: Who has seen Kingsmen II: The Golden Circle? It opened here yesterday.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Subject change: Who has seen Kingsmen II: The Golden Circle? It opened here yesterday.

warspite1

No but I hear the reviews are very good.