I am drowning in work, these days. Turn rate has gone down from six turns per week to three or four. I am trying hard to keep with a turn every other day, and managing it so far, but the AAR is lagging behind, a collateral victim to the work frenzy. And don’t even think, dear reader, this is a good thing, on a personal level. Most of the work is just meant to help me pay the new taxes we’re getting this year… Welcome to Europe!
Anyway, I called this evening off, so here is a turn, written while enjoying some vintage port (Graham Tawny 10 years old, I feel like a character in a Jane Austen novel…)
May 31st, 1942
Welcome to Australia
For a couple of weeks, I had been recceing Darwin, and sweeping Darwin, and bombarding Darwin, from the air, and the sea. And, much to my surprise, Darwin was lightly defended. So, it was decided that an infantry regiment, on a fast transport, and a heavy bombardment the day before, would do the job. Loud and clear, eh?
Well… The first attack didn’t go that well. I don’t know where those 500 guns came from, but they were here
Pre-Invasion action off Darwin (76,124) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force
495 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
CA Suzuya, Shell hits 19, on fire
CA Ashigara, Shell hits 2
CA Haguro, Shell hits 3
CA Atago, Shell hits 9
CA Takao, Shell hits 4
CL Yura, Shell hits 5, on fire
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 1, on fire
CL Naka
DD Tachekaze, Shell hits 7, heavy fires
DD Maikaze
DD Hagikaze
Japanese ground losses:
218 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Allied ground losses:
52 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
And then, the guns fired again
Invasion Support action off Darwin (76,124) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
145 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
CA Suzuya, Shell hits 7, on fire
CA Ashigara, Shell hits 6, on fire
CA Haguro, Shell hits 9, on fire
CA Atago, Shell hits 11, on fire
CA Takao, Shell hits 8, on fire
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL Naka, Shell hits 1
DD Umikaze, Shell hits 7, on fire
DD Murasame, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Yamagumo, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Hagikaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Maikaze
And then, well, there were more enemies than we thought…
Ground combat at Darwin (76,124)
Allied Bombardment attack
Attacking force 5193 troops, 101 guns, 85 vehicles, Assault Value = 252
Defending force 2660 troops, 40 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 51
Japanese ground losses:
108 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Assaulting units:
3rd Australian Brigade
19th Australian Battalion
2/10th Armoured Regiment
2/4 MG Battalion
Emery Point Fortress
108th Tank Attack Regiment
Northern Territory
2nd RAN Base Force
1st Fgtr RAAF Wing
Darwin RAAF Base Force
A/B Battery Heavy Coastal Artillery Regiment
Defending units:
9th Infantry Regiment
Fiasco is the word I am looking for… The 9th Infantry is most certainly toast. DD Tachekaze (something-wind) was sunk, Yamaguro was scuttled, and I am praying that most of my cruisers make it back to Koepang.
Can we land in Derby, or Broome, now that Darwin seems off limits? I don’t know. Truscott is definitely doable, and tanks could wreck a lot of damage from there, but I’d rather have Derby to land infantry. I need to think about it, and I am probably not in the best of moods to achieve this now.
Happy China
Whereas nothing, like something, happens everywhere, not everything can go wrong every day…
In Kunming, the forts are now down to level zero, and enemy AV, from almost 500, is now down to 200. Western China is about to fall, methink.
In Chungking, the artillery is clearly making a difference, here are the bombardment results for today:
Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 137015 troops, 2232 guns, 1267 vehicles, Assault Value = 3339
Defending force 121886 troops, 798 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3361
Japanese ground losses:
88 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Allied ground losses:
133 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 24 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J), no spence, please
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
Wow! How did he hide all those units from you in Darwin? I think the commander of your recon units needs to join his ancestors ... [;)]
Pax
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Wow! How did he hide all those units from you in Darwin? I think the commander of your recon units needs to join his ancestors ...
I think the commander of this commander needs to read the right paragraphs of the manual, too... Thinking about it, I probably did not really recon the place: I flew a couple of high altitude missions a week ago, which detected two units. Then I mostly swept, and bombed little, which didn't improve, and I trusted the low response to bombardment as an indicator that very few guns were present.
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
Yesterday was a holiday here, and I decided this morning that I wouldn’t work today. This means four days off, with a lot of rain on the weather forecast, the perfect time to catch up with this AAR, that is!
June 1st 1942
Welcome to Australia, the day after
After the catastrophic landings yesterday, there was little hope that the ninth infantry regiment would survive the counterattack today. And it fact, it did not.
Ground combat at Darwin (76,124)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 9150 troops, 131 guns, 147 vehicles, Assault Value = 254
Defending force 2590 troops, 40 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 44
Allied assault odds: 71 to 1
Japanese ground losses:
839 casualties reported
Squads: 45 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Allied ground losses:
67 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Assaulting units:
2/4 MG Battalion
2/10th Armoured Regiment
19th Australian Battalion
3rd Australian Brigade
Emery Point Fortress
Darwin RAAF Base Force
1st Fgtr RAAF Wing
2nd RAN Base Force
108th Tank Attack Regiment
Northern Territory
A/B Battery Heavy Coastal Artillery Regiment
Defending units:
9th Infantry Regiment
Japanese Unit(s) surrounded at Darwin
At sea, my retreating ships managed to avoid enemy bombers and submarines. Several cruisers and destroyers are still on fire, CA Suzuya is probably doomed, but most of the others will make it to Koepang and then to Singapore.
I have ordered my bombardment task force to pay a visit to Derby in Broome, to see what lies there, but the heavy reinforcements found in Darwin (those tanks, especially) suggest that the expedition to the northern coast should probably be cancelled. I could certainly take Exmouth and Port Hedland, even establish a beachhead in Truscott, but this would probably be a bit expensive, and I am not sure I see the strategic benefit. The northern expedition was meant to divert pressure from New Guinea, not to pin the IJA further from its bases.
I am taking a few days to think about it, but in all likeliness, I will not go for Australia in the near future.
And now, Buna
For several weeks, Australian troops from Port Moresby have been reinforcing Buna, over the Kokda trail. Today, they attacked with a brigade and a battalion. The eleventh Garrison Unit managed to hold, but the base will most certainly fall tomorrow.
This is an almost orderly retreat. All the air support, engineers and paratroops have been evacuated by air, and all the bases to the north have been captured. The 11th Garrison will retreat over the jungle towards Salamaua, and reinforcements are moving towards Hansa Bay, Madang, and Lae.
I do realize I should have gone for Port Moresby earlier, and having the Allies on the offensive in New Guinea on the first of June 1942 is not good news. On the other hand, I am quite happy with a protracted war in the jungles of New Guinea. This is as far from the centre as possible, the few roads that exist favor the Japanese, and I have more and better air bases in the area.
If the Australians decide to pursue, after they captured Buna, and I believe they will, I might not be able to hold them in Salamaua, but I believe I can block them with significant forces (a division, that is), in Wau and Lae can be held. Such a slow battle in New Guinea would probably buy me the time to finish China and launch an offensive in Burma.
Again, I need to think about it. More about that in the next installments.
From Port Blair to Magwe
It seems that my opponent has given up on Port Blair. Sweeps find no enemy fighters, and naval and air bombardment are keeping the airfield and the port in bad shape. There are seventeen enemy units in Port Blair, about 30 000 troops, 300 vehicles and as many guns, all in malaria zone. I will try to cordon the island, and bomb around the clock. Those seventeen units probably represent a significant part of the Commonwealth forces in the area, and suppressing them will complicate the defense of India and the conquest of Burma.
In the meantime, the Allies seem to concentrate on Burma. Magwe was swept several times, by P38-E notably, and bombed inconclusively. I need more air support and planes in the area. Some AA units have arrived, but my air defenses are still insufficient. AA units, engineers and air support from China are marching in, and will be there in a month or two.
On the ground, Burma is decently reinforced. I have a regiment in Warazup, in the far north, and the Imperial Guard division in reserve in Katha. In Central Burma, I have a tank division and a RTA division in Mandalay, and the 6th Guards and artillery in Magwe. Finally, the 5th Guards, now over 500 AV strong, is entrenched on the border, facing Akyab, with a tank brigade in second line.
As the western road to China opens, reinforcements will begin to pour in.
Western ventures
Kunming fell today. The enemy retreated east, towards China, not Burma, that is. The road between Tsuyung and Kunming is garrisoned and I believe I can prevent the Chinese from escaping to India. The fall of Kunming opens the road to Burma, which AA units and support troops from China will now follow.
The KMT only holds six bases, Chungking and Changsha, both under siege, and the four southern cities of Wuchow, Liuchow, Kweilin and Tuyun. I am marching on Wuchow, and ready to besiege Kweilin.
In Chungking, our artillery is taking her marks.
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 12824 troops, 971 guns, 785 vehicles, Assault Value = 3405
Defending force 127781 troops, 821 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3629
Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Allied ground losses:
257 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 21 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Our AV is moving up, so is the enemy, as destroyed units come back, probably. Forts are still level five. I will probably attack again next week, to take another level away. It is costly, but that’s the only way I know.
Thoughts
We are in June, the fiasco in Darwin, and the impending Allied reconquest of Buna come as useful reminders of what the Empire can, and cannot achieve.
In this game, my main strategic objective is China. I want to capture the country, take the KMT off the game, and use the place as a rear base for the rest of the war. So far, everything is fine. The northern half of the country and most of the east are now free of enemy presence. A large fraction of enemy forces (over 31 000 combat squads) were destroyed, and remaining units are pocketed and will not flee. I have no idea how long the capture of Chungking will take, might be weeks, or months.
After China, the next important theater is Burma. Right now, I want to build my defenses, and prevent an early attack. I believe the units stranded in Port Blair are helping. Then, after China falls, I want to march into India, and use this campaign to delay Allied advance in the Pacific. To achieve this, the East Indies and the coast from Singapore to Ambon must be held with sufficient forces to discourage any attempt to turn Burma.
So, what about the South Pacific and Australia? The goal is to let the war take place there, and remain there for as long as possible. A large part of my navy, air force, and ground troops can, and will, be used in the process.
June 1st 1942
Welcome to Australia, the day after
After the catastrophic landings yesterday, there was little hope that the ninth infantry regiment would survive the counterattack today. And it fact, it did not.
Ground combat at Darwin (76,124)
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 9150 troops, 131 guns, 147 vehicles, Assault Value = 254
Defending force 2590 troops, 40 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 44
Allied assault odds: 71 to 1
Japanese ground losses:
839 casualties reported
Squads: 45 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Allied ground losses:
67 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Assaulting units:
2/4 MG Battalion
2/10th Armoured Regiment
19th Australian Battalion
3rd Australian Brigade
Emery Point Fortress
Darwin RAAF Base Force
1st Fgtr RAAF Wing
2nd RAN Base Force
108th Tank Attack Regiment
Northern Territory
A/B Battery Heavy Coastal Artillery Regiment
Defending units:
9th Infantry Regiment
Japanese Unit(s) surrounded at Darwin
At sea, my retreating ships managed to avoid enemy bombers and submarines. Several cruisers and destroyers are still on fire, CA Suzuya is probably doomed, but most of the others will make it to Koepang and then to Singapore.
I have ordered my bombardment task force to pay a visit to Derby in Broome, to see what lies there, but the heavy reinforcements found in Darwin (those tanks, especially) suggest that the expedition to the northern coast should probably be cancelled. I could certainly take Exmouth and Port Hedland, even establish a beachhead in Truscott, but this would probably be a bit expensive, and I am not sure I see the strategic benefit. The northern expedition was meant to divert pressure from New Guinea, not to pin the IJA further from its bases.
I am taking a few days to think about it, but in all likeliness, I will not go for Australia in the near future.
And now, Buna
For several weeks, Australian troops from Port Moresby have been reinforcing Buna, over the Kokda trail. Today, they attacked with a brigade and a battalion. The eleventh Garrison Unit managed to hold, but the base will most certainly fall tomorrow.
This is an almost orderly retreat. All the air support, engineers and paratroops have been evacuated by air, and all the bases to the north have been captured. The 11th Garrison will retreat over the jungle towards Salamaua, and reinforcements are moving towards Hansa Bay, Madang, and Lae.
I do realize I should have gone for Port Moresby earlier, and having the Allies on the offensive in New Guinea on the first of June 1942 is not good news. On the other hand, I am quite happy with a protracted war in the jungles of New Guinea. This is as far from the centre as possible, the few roads that exist favor the Japanese, and I have more and better air bases in the area.
If the Australians decide to pursue, after they captured Buna, and I believe they will, I might not be able to hold them in Salamaua, but I believe I can block them with significant forces (a division, that is), in Wau and Lae can be held. Such a slow battle in New Guinea would probably buy me the time to finish China and launch an offensive in Burma.
Again, I need to think about it. More about that in the next installments.
From Port Blair to Magwe
It seems that my opponent has given up on Port Blair. Sweeps find no enemy fighters, and naval and air bombardment are keeping the airfield and the port in bad shape. There are seventeen enemy units in Port Blair, about 30 000 troops, 300 vehicles and as many guns, all in malaria zone. I will try to cordon the island, and bomb around the clock. Those seventeen units probably represent a significant part of the Commonwealth forces in the area, and suppressing them will complicate the defense of India and the conquest of Burma.
In the meantime, the Allies seem to concentrate on Burma. Magwe was swept several times, by P38-E notably, and bombed inconclusively. I need more air support and planes in the area. Some AA units have arrived, but my air defenses are still insufficient. AA units, engineers and air support from China are marching in, and will be there in a month or two.
On the ground, Burma is decently reinforced. I have a regiment in Warazup, in the far north, and the Imperial Guard division in reserve in Katha. In Central Burma, I have a tank division and a RTA division in Mandalay, and the 6th Guards and artillery in Magwe. Finally, the 5th Guards, now over 500 AV strong, is entrenched on the border, facing Akyab, with a tank brigade in second line.
As the western road to China opens, reinforcements will begin to pour in.
Western ventures
Kunming fell today. The enemy retreated east, towards China, not Burma, that is. The road between Tsuyung and Kunming is garrisoned and I believe I can prevent the Chinese from escaping to India. The fall of Kunming opens the road to Burma, which AA units and support troops from China will now follow.
The KMT only holds six bases, Chungking and Changsha, both under siege, and the four southern cities of Wuchow, Liuchow, Kweilin and Tuyun. I am marching on Wuchow, and ready to besiege Kweilin.
In Chungking, our artillery is taking her marks.
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 12824 troops, 971 guns, 785 vehicles, Assault Value = 3405
Defending force 127781 troops, 821 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3629
Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (1 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Allied ground losses:
257 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 21 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Our AV is moving up, so is the enemy, as destroyed units come back, probably. Forts are still level five. I will probably attack again next week, to take another level away. It is costly, but that’s the only way I know.
Thoughts
We are in June, the fiasco in Darwin, and the impending Allied reconquest of Buna come as useful reminders of what the Empire can, and cannot achieve.
In this game, my main strategic objective is China. I want to capture the country, take the KMT off the game, and use the place as a rear base for the rest of the war. So far, everything is fine. The northern half of the country and most of the east are now free of enemy presence. A large fraction of enemy forces (over 31 000 combat squads) were destroyed, and remaining units are pocketed and will not flee. I have no idea how long the capture of Chungking will take, might be weeks, or months.
After China, the next important theater is Burma. Right now, I want to build my defenses, and prevent an early attack. I believe the units stranded in Port Blair are helping. Then, after China falls, I want to march into India, and use this campaign to delay Allied advance in the Pacific. To achieve this, the East Indies and the coast from Singapore to Ambon must be held with sufficient forces to discourage any attempt to turn Burma.
So, what about the South Pacific and Australia? The goal is to let the war take place there, and remain there for as long as possible. A large part of my navy, air force, and ground troops can, and will, be used in the process.
-
SqzMyLemon
- Posts: 4239
- Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:18 pm
- Location: Alberta, Canada
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
Sounds like a solid plan Francois. I'm looking forward to seeing how you contain the Allied advance in New Guinea. I know you've mentioned you're much more comfortable with the land war than naval operations, but it's going to be interesting seeing how you perform out of your comfort zone so to speak.
Darwin will be hard to suppress by air alone, so I'd plan my defence of Timor and area accordingly expecting strong Allied air attacks on your airbases in late 42 if your opponent cares to go this route.
I really enjoy your AAR these days and you excude a quiet confidence in your ability to steer the war in a direction of your choosing. Going to be fun to follow as things heat up.
Darwin will be hard to suppress by air alone, so I'd plan my defence of Timor and area accordingly expecting strong Allied air attacks on your airbases in late 42 if your opponent cares to go this route.
I really enjoy your AAR these days and you excude a quiet confidence in your ability to steer the war in a direction of your choosing. Going to be fun to follow as things heat up.
Luck is the residue of design - John Milton
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
June 2nd 1942
Buna now
Buna fell today, unsurprisingly. The 11th garrison unit retreated north, towards Salamaua, and some of the Australian units are pursuing. I believe they need about three weeks to get to Salamaua, more if I bomb them from the air. Salamaua will be reinforce by air, and from the sea. Let us see if we can stop them there…
Also, we captured Finschafen. Terapo is the last enemy base in the region.
Magwe again
The enemy had a bad day over Magwe. In the morning, his sweeps cost him a few P40. In the afternoon, his bombers flew unescorted, and half a dozen of them were shot down. P38E reappeared over Magwe, and cost me a few more Oscars. Fortunately, their high service rating prevent them from flying often, and they seem to suffer from ops losses.
And Chungking
Bombardment losses are increasing :
Allied ground losses:
305 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 37 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 14 (1 destroyed, 13 disabled)
Air bombardment is claiming a dozen more squads every day. Our raids are met by very little flak, which suggests the supply situation is very bad.
I am very curious about the battle in Chungking. In all likeliness, the city will soon sport a very high AV, as more destroyed units respawn. I understand those will be very bad troops, but I wonder whether their numbers can compensate for their low quality. Right now, I am going on with the bombardment, and will probably try another deliberate attack in a week or so.
Elsewhere in China, I am mopping the KMT away.
More thoughts
Hi Joseph,
I am relatively optimistic about Timor. I have quite a few troops there, an Air HQ, good planes, and will use the base to bombard the coastal bases in North Australia. This, together with the difficulty to supply Darwin overland that several players have noted, should make attempts to suppress the base pretty difficult. I am also considering reforming a mini-KB (around the surviving CVE CVL, CV Junyo now in Singapore, and the Hiyo which should arrive in a month), and base it around Macassar, to fend off enemy attempts in the region.
As for New Guinea, I am much less confident. In Buna, the enemy air attacks have made the base almost impossible to supply, and I don’t know whether supplying units overland in the jungle works. It should cut both ways, though, and my opponent will face the same difficulties.
Steering the war in directions of one’s choosing sounds like a very good definition of strategy. Whether I can manage it remains to be seen, but I firmly believe this is what this game is all about.
Buna now
Buna fell today, unsurprisingly. The 11th garrison unit retreated north, towards Salamaua, and some of the Australian units are pursuing. I believe they need about three weeks to get to Salamaua, more if I bomb them from the air. Salamaua will be reinforce by air, and from the sea. Let us see if we can stop them there…
Also, we captured Finschafen. Terapo is the last enemy base in the region.
Magwe again
The enemy had a bad day over Magwe. In the morning, his sweeps cost him a few P40. In the afternoon, his bombers flew unescorted, and half a dozen of them were shot down. P38E reappeared over Magwe, and cost me a few more Oscars. Fortunately, their high service rating prevent them from flying often, and they seem to suffer from ops losses.
And Chungking
Bombardment losses are increasing :
Allied ground losses:
305 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 37 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 14 (1 destroyed, 13 disabled)
Air bombardment is claiming a dozen more squads every day. Our raids are met by very little flak, which suggests the supply situation is very bad.
I am very curious about the battle in Chungking. In all likeliness, the city will soon sport a very high AV, as more destroyed units respawn. I understand those will be very bad troops, but I wonder whether their numbers can compensate for their low quality. Right now, I am going on with the bombardment, and will probably try another deliberate attack in a week or so.
Elsewhere in China, I am mopping the KMT away.
More thoughts
Hi Joseph,
I am relatively optimistic about Timor. I have quite a few troops there, an Air HQ, good planes, and will use the base to bombard the coastal bases in North Australia. This, together with the difficulty to supply Darwin overland that several players have noted, should make attempts to suppress the base pretty difficult. I am also considering reforming a mini-KB (around the surviving CVE CVL, CV Junyo now in Singapore, and the Hiyo which should arrive in a month), and base it around Macassar, to fend off enemy attempts in the region.
As for New Guinea, I am much less confident. In Buna, the enemy air attacks have made the base almost impossible to supply, and I don’t know whether supplying units overland in the jungle works. It should cut both ways, though, and my opponent will face the same difficulties.
Steering the war in directions of one’s choosing sounds like a very good definition of strategy. Whether I can manage it remains to be seen, but I firmly believe this is what this game is all about.
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
Let me interject my thoughts here ... I'm not a fan of bombardment attacks against chinese troops. Air/Sea bombardment yes, but not LCU bombaardment attacks. My opinion is that you give the chinese troops too much exp for the amount of damage that you inflict. Those troops re-appearing are coming in without supply cost, but they are arriving with 20 -30 exp. Very low. however, that also means that they gain exp really easy. I've seen chinese troops gain 2 - 5 EXP / day withstanding bombardment attacks. Granted you keep their disruption high and morale low. I prefer to do that with air bombardments which don't seem to give them any exp.ORIGINAL: fcharton
And Chungking
Bombardment losses are increasing :
Allied ground losses:
305 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 37 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 14 (1 destroyed, 13 disabled)
Air bombardment is claiming a dozen more squads every day. Our raids are met by very little flak, which suggests the supply situation is very bad.
I am very curious about the battle in Chungking. In all likeliness, the city will soon sport a very high AV, as more destroyed units respawn. I understand those will be very bad troops, but I wonder whether their numbers can compensate for their low quality. Right now, I am going on with the bombardment, and will probably try another deliberate attack in a week or so.
Just my thoughts ...
Pax
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
June 3rd, 1942
Chungking, bombardments and zombies
Hi Pax,
This is a very thought provoking idea…
So far, my strategy was the same as the one I followed in Bataan, and in Changsha. Bombard, every day, to disable the enemy in a painless way. With overwhelming numbers, you can disable about 50 squads per day, and some 20 more from the air. Overall, that would be about 2000 AV a month. If we consider that, through respawning, Chungking will sooner or later hold about 8000 AV, three or four months of bombardment might be enough to reduce the place. At that point, enemy experience wouldn’t really matter, as most of their troops would be disabled. Also, the bombardment would probably keep the supply levels down (keep in mind Chungking has quite a bit of “magic supplies”), making disablements from fatigue a possibility as time goes by.
What you are suggesting provides a shorter path to victory. By just bombing from the air, I will have less disablements, but high disruption, and enemy experience will remain low. This means I can probably attack and succeed with worse raw AV ratios. The only question would then be supplies. If air bombing doesn’t destroy enough supplies, I might allow the Chinese to actually repair disablements, or even replace some squads and devices.
I will try a deliberate attack soon (that would be the ninth of June, since this game is a few days past the AAR), and see what I get in terms of fort reduction, enemy AV, and combat modifiers.
We had pretty good bombardment results today, but as you might notice, Chinese AV have gone from 3600 to 3900 over the last three days, that’s respawning for you, gaijins. What this is supposed to model now that China is pretty much all under Japanese control, and Chungking is under siege, is beyond me, but I’ll be a good JFB and agree that the very few departures from reason and historical plausibility the game allows all benefit Japan, and have been left in the game to prevent the war from ending in 1943 (as, we all know, happened historically)
Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 12796 troops, 970 guns, 783 vehicles, Assault Value = 3567
Defending force 133686 troops, 842 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3888
Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 13 (2 destroyed, 11 disabled)
Allied ground losses:
526 casualties reported
Squads: 29 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Chungking, bombardments and zombies
Hi Pax,
This is a very thought provoking idea…
So far, my strategy was the same as the one I followed in Bataan, and in Changsha. Bombard, every day, to disable the enemy in a painless way. With overwhelming numbers, you can disable about 50 squads per day, and some 20 more from the air. Overall, that would be about 2000 AV a month. If we consider that, through respawning, Chungking will sooner or later hold about 8000 AV, three or four months of bombardment might be enough to reduce the place. At that point, enemy experience wouldn’t really matter, as most of their troops would be disabled. Also, the bombardment would probably keep the supply levels down (keep in mind Chungking has quite a bit of “magic supplies”), making disablements from fatigue a possibility as time goes by.
What you are suggesting provides a shorter path to victory. By just bombing from the air, I will have less disablements, but high disruption, and enemy experience will remain low. This means I can probably attack and succeed with worse raw AV ratios. The only question would then be supplies. If air bombing doesn’t destroy enough supplies, I might allow the Chinese to actually repair disablements, or even replace some squads and devices.
I will try a deliberate attack soon (that would be the ninth of June, since this game is a few days past the AAR), and see what I get in terms of fort reduction, enemy AV, and combat modifiers.
We had pretty good bombardment results today, but as you might notice, Chinese AV have gone from 3600 to 3900 over the last three days, that’s respawning for you, gaijins. What this is supposed to model now that China is pretty much all under Japanese control, and Chungking is under siege, is beyond me, but I’ll be a good JFB and agree that the very few departures from reason and historical plausibility the game allows all benefit Japan, and have been left in the game to prevent the war from ending in 1943 (as, we all know, happened historically)
Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 12796 troops, 970 guns, 783 vehicles, Assault Value = 3567
Defending force 133686 troops, 842 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3888
Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 13 (2 destroyed, 11 disabled)
Allied ground losses:
526 casualties reported
Squads: 29 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
Set a couple of your bomber groups to target the airfield, that will destroy a lot of supply. The rest of the bombers should be ground attack. When I'm bombing chinese forts like this, I like to have +6 bomber airgroups (~200 bombers). 2 groups on airfield, the rest on ground attack.
Pax
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
Not sure if you've peeked on the Allied side in a H to H game, but if I remember correctly the Chinese seem come back at about 40 exp. Much better than I had thought. It wouldn't take long to get them fit with the daily bombardments, but if you're taking out 30-60 squads a day, this won't matter too much anyway. Pax is right on with the air bombing advice. Keep hitting the troops on the ground as well as the fields. You make him use more supply healing dialed troops than you can ever get in supply attacks from bombing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
Thanks a lot, Pax and Obvert, for the comments. I did put them into practice, and will comment upon them in a week, when this AAR catches up with the game…
June 4th 1942
Bombarding Port Blair
A bombardment task force, built around BB Haruna, damaged the port and airbase in Port Blair this morning. Both port and airfield are over 30% damaged. A couple of Swordfishes were damaged on the ground. It seems my opponent has given up on Port Blair. I will go on bombarding, and see how much damage can be wrought this way.
On her way back to port, BB Haruna was attacked by enemy submarines. The area seems to be teeming with subs, I need to send ASW forces there.
Fighting over Buna
In New Guinea, the 11th Garrison Unit is retreating towards Salamaua. The Australian Brigade that took Buna is pursuing them. Several tranports were detected in Port Moresby: my opponent is probably reinforcing the place, and preparing for a land campaign through the jungle. This suits me fine as it is a slow crawl.
So, I’m bombing his troops in Buna, and he is bombing mine on their way to Salamaua. We both lost a dozen planes today. I believe that at this point in the game such heavy 1:1 exchange favor Japan. I produce more planes, and especially more fighters than the allies now. I believe the current losses over New Guinea and Northern Australia will result in less air cover for his advance over the jungle.
On the Western coast of New Guinea, paras from the first raiding regiment took Terapo today. This was the last enemy held base in the area. I am expecting to be bombed, from air and the sea.
Mopping China
Between Kashgar and Urumchi, the last KMT unit in northwest China, a separate brigade that once defended Wasu, surrendered today. I will her again in Chungking, I’m sure, but it is good to know that western China is now free of enemy.
In Chungking, the bombardment claimed 500 enemies. Results are getting better from day to day, so do enemy AV, unfortunately…
Allied ground losses:
511 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 42 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
With Northern China under Japanese control, I should be able to free a good number of units for operations in Sichuan or Burma. Just like in the beginning of the game, I have to do the “Chinese shuffle”, sending collabs to garrison cities, and freeing as many fighting units as I can.
June 4th 1942
Bombarding Port Blair
A bombardment task force, built around BB Haruna, damaged the port and airbase in Port Blair this morning. Both port and airfield are over 30% damaged. A couple of Swordfishes were damaged on the ground. It seems my opponent has given up on Port Blair. I will go on bombarding, and see how much damage can be wrought this way.
On her way back to port, BB Haruna was attacked by enemy submarines. The area seems to be teeming with subs, I need to send ASW forces there.
Fighting over Buna
In New Guinea, the 11th Garrison Unit is retreating towards Salamaua. The Australian Brigade that took Buna is pursuing them. Several tranports were detected in Port Moresby: my opponent is probably reinforcing the place, and preparing for a land campaign through the jungle. This suits me fine as it is a slow crawl.
So, I’m bombing his troops in Buna, and he is bombing mine on their way to Salamaua. We both lost a dozen planes today. I believe that at this point in the game such heavy 1:1 exchange favor Japan. I produce more planes, and especially more fighters than the allies now. I believe the current losses over New Guinea and Northern Australia will result in less air cover for his advance over the jungle.
On the Western coast of New Guinea, paras from the first raiding regiment took Terapo today. This was the last enemy held base in the area. I am expecting to be bombed, from air and the sea.
Mopping China
Between Kashgar and Urumchi, the last KMT unit in northwest China, a separate brigade that once defended Wasu, surrendered today. I will her again in Chungking, I’m sure, but it is good to know that western China is now free of enemy.
In Chungking, the bombardment claimed 500 enemies. Results are getting better from day to day, so do enemy AV, unfortunately…
Allied ground losses:
511 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 42 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
With Northern China under Japanese control, I should be able to free a good number of units for operations in Sichuan or Burma. Just like in the beginning of the game, I have to do the “Chinese shuffle”, sending collabs to garrison cities, and freeing as many fighting units as I can.
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
ORIGINAL: obvert
Not sure if you've peeked on the Allied side in a H to H game, but if I remember correctly the Chinese seem come back at about 40 exp.
Mmm, you got me wondering. I look at the editor and most of the Chinese units are 30 -35 EXP. Some are 20-25 EXP. My understanding is that re-constituted units come back at their initial EXP and Morale. However, I have actually never tested that so ....
Pax
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
Workload has receded and will probably remain at acceptable levels until the end of the year.
The economic situation in Europe being what it is, and our local leaders not being very good at motivating small business owners like yours truly to work the extra mile, it is very likely that I will have more time to devote to this game and other personal errands in the upcoming months.
June 5th 1942
New Guinea
With the Allies marching northwards, I am rushing to capture all the small island bases in the Bismarck sea that I neglected so far. Cape Gloucester was captured today. Over Burma, we had a pretty good day, as our Zeroes from Rabaul shot down four Airacobras. I now have enough squadrons to rotate them and sweep Buna every day. The allies, on the other hand, probably need to cope with high fatigue rates, to keep their boys flying. Time is on my side.
As expected, enemy bombers appeared over Terapo. I will have zeroes from Lae on long range patrol tomorrow.
New guys in Chungking
The usual airfield bombardment over Chungking found Lancers, today. One was destroyed on the field, and 17 damaged. Unfortunately for them, the runway is probably too damaged for them to fly, and daily bombardments will only make it worse. Add to this the supply situation, and there is a good chance that those planes will never be more than targets for my bombers.
Land bombardment result look better every day. Today, we had
Allied ground losses:
537 casualties reported
Squads: 15 destroyed, 41 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 12 (5 destroyed, 7 disabled)
June 6th, 1942
So long RO-65
I am not playing very seriously these days. I want the game to move forward, but I don’t have enough time to devote to it, so I am pretty much pushing turns around, without taking care of all the small details.
Submarine warfare is a collateral victim to my current lack of implication. A month ago, I sent several submarines hunting along the coast of Australia. They did some damage, but my opponent probably changed his routes, and has launched an active ASW campaign.
Today, we lost a lurker…
Submarine attack near Cairns at 92,139
Japanese Ships
SS RO-65, hits 23, on fire, heavy damage
Allied Ships
AM Toowoomba
AM Castlemaine
AM Benalla, Shell hits 1
Bombing Broome
After Derby, our battleship bombarded Broome. No coastal artillery replied, two patrol crafts were sunk, several Hudsons III were damaged, and there some support squads were lost, aviation support, most probably.
It seems Broome is only used as an air base: this is where I should have invaded… Next time, perhaps.
Over Buna, we traded fighters with the Australians. Fatigue, and ops losses are mounting, I need to rest my squadrons. Over the last month, we have been observing a “week on/week off” rhythm with our air losses.
That is pretty much all there is to say about today in the war. Early June is not the most eventful part of the war, so far.
Slightly unrelated comments
A thread about music (film music in fact) recently sent me wondering about what I listen to while playing my turns. One would imagine that those big wargames should be played while listening to larger than life, German (or Nordic) symphonic music, Wagner, Bruckner (6th, 4th), Sibelius (2nd, 5th) perhaps, Elgar even, or maybe modern thing, for smaller ensembles, like Bartok or late Shostakovich quartets.
I love those big works, and often play them while working. But I noticed I never have any of them while playing AE. As I write this, I am listening to Glenn Gould playing Bach French Suites, and in fact, many of my turns are played while listening to small formations, and relatively soft and lively music, Bach most of the time, or chamber music by Dvorak or Brahms. Light stuff, that is.
I suspect this is because I am not completely comfortable with wargaming as a hobby, and big bureaucrat friendly games like this one as a pastime. Heavy German music, or Soviet style symphonies, on top of it, would probably be too much…
The economic situation in Europe being what it is, and our local leaders not being very good at motivating small business owners like yours truly to work the extra mile, it is very likely that I will have more time to devote to this game and other personal errands in the upcoming months.
June 5th 1942
New Guinea
With the Allies marching northwards, I am rushing to capture all the small island bases in the Bismarck sea that I neglected so far. Cape Gloucester was captured today. Over Burma, we had a pretty good day, as our Zeroes from Rabaul shot down four Airacobras. I now have enough squadrons to rotate them and sweep Buna every day. The allies, on the other hand, probably need to cope with high fatigue rates, to keep their boys flying. Time is on my side.
As expected, enemy bombers appeared over Terapo. I will have zeroes from Lae on long range patrol tomorrow.
New guys in Chungking
The usual airfield bombardment over Chungking found Lancers, today. One was destroyed on the field, and 17 damaged. Unfortunately for them, the runway is probably too damaged for them to fly, and daily bombardments will only make it worse. Add to this the supply situation, and there is a good chance that those planes will never be more than targets for my bombers.
Land bombardment result look better every day. Today, we had
Allied ground losses:
537 casualties reported
Squads: 15 destroyed, 41 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 12 (5 destroyed, 7 disabled)
June 6th, 1942
So long RO-65
I am not playing very seriously these days. I want the game to move forward, but I don’t have enough time to devote to it, so I am pretty much pushing turns around, without taking care of all the small details.
Submarine warfare is a collateral victim to my current lack of implication. A month ago, I sent several submarines hunting along the coast of Australia. They did some damage, but my opponent probably changed his routes, and has launched an active ASW campaign.
Today, we lost a lurker…
Submarine attack near Cairns at 92,139
Japanese Ships
SS RO-65, hits 23, on fire, heavy damage
Allied Ships
AM Toowoomba
AM Castlemaine
AM Benalla, Shell hits 1
Bombing Broome
After Derby, our battleship bombarded Broome. No coastal artillery replied, two patrol crafts were sunk, several Hudsons III were damaged, and there some support squads were lost, aviation support, most probably.
It seems Broome is only used as an air base: this is where I should have invaded… Next time, perhaps.
Over Buna, we traded fighters with the Australians. Fatigue, and ops losses are mounting, I need to rest my squadrons. Over the last month, we have been observing a “week on/week off” rhythm with our air losses.
That is pretty much all there is to say about today in the war. Early June is not the most eventful part of the war, so far.
Slightly unrelated comments
A thread about music (film music in fact) recently sent me wondering about what I listen to while playing my turns. One would imagine that those big wargames should be played while listening to larger than life, German (or Nordic) symphonic music, Wagner, Bruckner (6th, 4th), Sibelius (2nd, 5th) perhaps, Elgar even, or maybe modern thing, for smaller ensembles, like Bartok or late Shostakovich quartets.
I love those big works, and often play them while working. But I noticed I never have any of them while playing AE. As I write this, I am listening to Glenn Gould playing Bach French Suites, and in fact, many of my turns are played while listening to small formations, and relatively soft and lively music, Bach most of the time, or chamber music by Dvorak or Brahms. Light stuff, that is.
I suspect this is because I am not completely comfortable with wargaming as a hobby, and big bureaucrat friendly games like this one as a pastime. Heavy German music, or Soviet style symphonies, on top of it, would probably be too much…
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
ORIGINAL: obvert
Not sure if you've peeked on the Allied side in a H to H game, but if I remember correctly the Chinese seem come back at about 40 exp.
Mmm, you got me wondering. I look at the editor and most of the Chinese units are 30 -35 EXP. Some are 20-25 EXP. My understanding is that re-constituted units come back at their initial EXP and Morale. However, I have actually never tested that so ....
Just to get back to this, I looked in my increasingly useful test H to H game. All of the units back from the dead are in the 40s. Here is a screenshot. These have been here for a bit, but only a few weeks.
- Attachments
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- chineseunits.jpg (489.58 KiB) Viewed 134 times
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
I love those big works, and often play them while working. But I noticed I never have any of them while playing AE. As I write this, I am listening to Glenn Gould playing Bach French Suites, and in fact, many of my turns are played while listening to small formations, and relatively soft and lively music, Bach most of the time, or chamber music by Dvorak or Brahms. Light stuff, that is.
I love Glenn Gould's Bach. Amazing. It actually fits the game much better than bigger more bombastic music. It's all about subtle shifts of formula and variation. Lots of repetition! Very organized and fluid. I always find my mind seems to work better listening to this. My choice is Sigur Ros. It can be soft, but also gets big and wild at times.
I also still keep the internal game music on most turns. It puts me in the right frame of mind. Especially the soft Japanese style flute thing.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
June 7th, 1942
Chungking, respawn, bombardments and morale
Thanks a lot for the information, Erik. If I read correctly, those units come back at one third strength (about 250 AV per corps), with experience and morale in the low 40s. Maybe artillery barrages are fine, after all, since they won’t bring enemy experience very high, but will keep morale low, and disrupt squads.
With destroyed corps reswpaning at 250 AV, I believe I can expect about 6000 AV in Chungking at some point. A day of bombardment will typically destroy or disable thirty or forty squads, and air bombardment will claim a dozen more. This will take a while, but I think it is worth the bother.
Here is the bombardment result for today
Allied ground losses:
330 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 28 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Our bombers focused on the airfield, closed it for a couple of days, and damaged a couple of Lancers. I am keeping Oscars on sweep, just in case, but I suspect those planes will never fly.
I have over 3800 AV in the hex, the enemy has 4700, and forts still are level 5. I am attacking tomorrow. This will no doubt be costly, but I need to take those forts down.
Wuchow
The two infantry brigades that took Kukong a few weeks ago arrived in Wuchow yesterday, and attacked for the first time today. Despite fighting larger numbers (three Chinese corps, three headquarter units, and a base force), behind level three forts, we achieved 1:1 odds at first try, and took a fort level away.
I am expecting this city to be ours very soon.
More unrelated
Hi Obvert,
Your comment made me realize that I never played the game with the sound, or music, on. I believe I need some kind of “flowing” music to play my turns. Bach works fine, but thinking of it, gamelan might be just perfect, and nicely related to the subject at hand.
I never really liked Japanese or Chinese classical music. It is not for lack of trying, but it leaves me cold, maybe because the language is a bit simplistic (it sort of reminds me of minimalist musicians: it sounds like a great idea the first time you hear it, but you get bored very fast).
This is all the more curious as both the Chinese and the Japanese produce very good poetry. I, for one, regretted that the Nobel didn’t go to Bei Dao, or one of the modern Chinese poets.
But I’m rambling again. …
Chungking, respawn, bombardments and morale
Thanks a lot for the information, Erik. If I read correctly, those units come back at one third strength (about 250 AV per corps), with experience and morale in the low 40s. Maybe artillery barrages are fine, after all, since they won’t bring enemy experience very high, but will keep morale low, and disrupt squads.
With destroyed corps reswpaning at 250 AV, I believe I can expect about 6000 AV in Chungking at some point. A day of bombardment will typically destroy or disable thirty or forty squads, and air bombardment will claim a dozen more. This will take a while, but I think it is worth the bother.
Here is the bombardment result for today
Allied ground losses:
330 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 28 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Our bombers focused on the airfield, closed it for a couple of days, and damaged a couple of Lancers. I am keeping Oscars on sweep, just in case, but I suspect those planes will never fly.
I have over 3800 AV in the hex, the enemy has 4700, and forts still are level 5. I am attacking tomorrow. This will no doubt be costly, but I need to take those forts down.
Wuchow
The two infantry brigades that took Kukong a few weeks ago arrived in Wuchow yesterday, and attacked for the first time today. Despite fighting larger numbers (three Chinese corps, three headquarter units, and a base force), behind level three forts, we achieved 1:1 odds at first try, and took a fort level away.
I am expecting this city to be ours very soon.
More unrelated
Hi Obvert,
Your comment made me realize that I never played the game with the sound, or music, on. I believe I need some kind of “flowing” music to play my turns. Bach works fine, but thinking of it, gamelan might be just perfect, and nicely related to the subject at hand.
I never really liked Japanese or Chinese classical music. It is not for lack of trying, but it leaves me cold, maybe because the language is a bit simplistic (it sort of reminds me of minimalist musicians: it sounds like a great idea the first time you hear it, but you get bored very fast).
This is all the more curious as both the Chinese and the Japanese produce very good poetry. I, for one, regretted that the Nobel didn’t go to Bei Dao, or one of the modern Chinese poets.
But I’m rambling again. …
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
So they could have gained exp. This may appear to be nit-picking, but I'm not. Really important here. If the CHI units are NOT coming back per the editor setup, then it implies they are coming back with some of their previous experience. That's a big deal, a really big deal. It means you could potentially be facing +50 EXP units there. That would be disastrous. OTOH, if they are coming back at the editor levels, then you don't have to worry about how you got them there. Anyway, will have to do some testing to confirm this.ORIGINAL: obvert
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
ORIGINAL: obvert
Not sure if you've peeked on the Allied side in a H to H game, but if I remember correctly the Chinese seem come back at about 40 exp.
Mmm, you got me wondering. I look at the editor and most of the Chinese units are 30 -35 EXP. Some are 20-25 EXP. My understanding is that re-constituted units come back at their initial EXP and Morale. However, I have actually never tested that so ....
Just to get back to this, I looked in my increasingly useful test H to H game. All of the units back from the dead are in the 40s. Here is a screenshot. These have been here for a bit, but only a few weeks.
<scratches another test onto the list> [;)]
Pax
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
Hi Pax,
I had a look at the other side this morning, and it seems most chinese corps begin the game with experience between 30 and 50. Some of the corps listed in the screenshot have starting XP between 30 and 35. So, unless they got their experience increased by ten by just sitting around (Erik, have those units fought since they respawned?), which doesn't seem right, they probably just came back with their former XP.
This said, even if they arrived at replacement levels, but only needed a few days of battle and rest to be back around 50 XP, the result would be the same : respawning is a much more fearsome tool than we once thought.
I am having other misgivings about respawning. The manual says
"Chinese infantry units that are totally destroyed are recreated. When destroyed, the unit is set
to return to Chungking 30 days later at 1/3 of it’s TO&E strength. These replacement units do
not use up any units from the replacement pool. They represent the almost unlimited ability of
China to replace infantry units if needed."
Apart from the fact that most chinese infantry units have quite a number of "non infantry" devices in their TOE, that seem to come back as well (to represent the almost unlimited ability of China to replace guns, engineers, and MMG sections?), I have also seen non infantry units come back.
For instance, on the 20th of January combat report, I had
Ground combat at 90,49 (near Pengpu)
Japanese Shock attack
Attacking force 3632 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 127
Defending force 25 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1
Japanese assault odds: 126 to 1
Allied ground losses:
35 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units destroyed 1
Assaulting units:
138th Infantry Regiment
Defending units:
Lusu War Area
Yet the Lusu War Area, a HQ unit, is now in Chungking
Also, the first and second construction regiments, that surrendered near Sian in February
Ground combat at 83,40 (near Sian)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 23223 troops, 206 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 1437
Defending force 610 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3
Japanese assault odds: 306 to 1
Allied ground losses:
780 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 80 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 13 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 3
Assaulting units:
6th Ind.Mixed Brigade
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
32nd Division
7th Ind.Mixed Brigade
8th Division
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Defending units:
1st Construction Regiment
129th Red Chinese Division
2nd Construction Regiment
(the surrender of the second is confirmed in the combat events : 2nd Construction Regiment SURRENDERS !!!)
have both been in Chungking since the beginning of May.
This suggests not only infantry, but also engineers and HQ respawn. Artillery too, probably (need to test that).
The 30 day delay before respawning is not respected either. I was suprised to see the 9th separate brigade in my list of enemy units on the 12th of June. She used to defend Urumchi and Wasu, and surrendered on the 22nd of May.
Overall, I believe the respawning rule doesn't work as advertised, so I would not really be surprised if units came back with experience.
This should probably count as a bug, but I am not really interested in the "China's broken anyway" discussion that would follow the report. So, let's skip that one, and turn to the constructive debate. If it turns out that the Chinese respawn in a much easier way than we once were told, what's the correct strategy to conquer China?
On a more mischievous note, I am also very curious about how the Chungking respawning mixes with stacking limits...
Francois
ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
So they could have gained exp. This may appear to be nit-picking, but I'm not. Really important here. If the CHI units are NOT coming back per the editor setup, then it implies they are coming back with some of their previous experience. That's a big deal, a really big deal. It means you could potentially be facing +50 EXP units there. That would be disastrous.
I had a look at the other side this morning, and it seems most chinese corps begin the game with experience between 30 and 50. Some of the corps listed in the screenshot have starting XP between 30 and 35. So, unless they got their experience increased by ten by just sitting around (Erik, have those units fought since they respawned?), which doesn't seem right, they probably just came back with their former XP.
This said, even if they arrived at replacement levels, but only needed a few days of battle and rest to be back around 50 XP, the result would be the same : respawning is a much more fearsome tool than we once thought.
I am having other misgivings about respawning. The manual says
"Chinese infantry units that are totally destroyed are recreated. When destroyed, the unit is set
to return to Chungking 30 days later at 1/3 of it’s TO&E strength. These replacement units do
not use up any units from the replacement pool. They represent the almost unlimited ability of
China to replace infantry units if needed."
Apart from the fact that most chinese infantry units have quite a number of "non infantry" devices in their TOE, that seem to come back as well (to represent the almost unlimited ability of China to replace guns, engineers, and MMG sections?), I have also seen non infantry units come back.
For instance, on the 20th of January combat report, I had
Ground combat at 90,49 (near Pengpu)
Japanese Shock attack
Attacking force 3632 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 127
Defending force 25 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1
Japanese assault odds: 126 to 1
Allied ground losses:
35 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units destroyed 1
Assaulting units:
138th Infantry Regiment
Defending units:
Lusu War Area
Yet the Lusu War Area, a HQ unit, is now in Chungking
Also, the first and second construction regiments, that surrendered near Sian in February
Ground combat at 83,40 (near Sian)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 23223 troops, 206 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 1437
Defending force 610 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3
Japanese assault odds: 306 to 1
Allied ground losses:
780 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 80 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 13 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 3
Assaulting units:
6th Ind.Mixed Brigade
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
32nd Division
7th Ind.Mixed Brigade
8th Division
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Defending units:
1st Construction Regiment
129th Red Chinese Division
2nd Construction Regiment
(the surrender of the second is confirmed in the combat events : 2nd Construction Regiment SURRENDERS !!!)
have both been in Chungking since the beginning of May.
This suggests not only infantry, but also engineers and HQ respawn. Artillery too, probably (need to test that).
The 30 day delay before respawning is not respected either. I was suprised to see the 9th separate brigade in my list of enemy units on the 12th of June. She used to defend Urumchi and Wasu, and surrendered on the 22nd of May.
Overall, I believe the respawning rule doesn't work as advertised, so I would not really be surprised if units came back with experience.
This should probably count as a bug, but I am not really interested in the "China's broken anyway" discussion that would follow the report. So, let's skip that one, and turn to the constructive debate. If it turns out that the Chinese respawn in a much easier way than we once were told, what's the correct strategy to conquer China?
On a more mischievous note, I am also very curious about how the Chungking respawning mixes with stacking limits...
Francois
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
I had a look at the other side this morning, and it seems most chinese corps begin the game with experience between 30 and 50. Some of the corps listed in the screenshot have starting XP between 30 and 35. So, unless they got their experience increased by ten by just sitting around (Erik, have those units fought since they respawned?), which doesn't seem right, they probably just came back with their former XP.
This said, even if they arrived at replacement levels, but only needed a few days of battle and rest to be back around 50 XP, the result would be the same : respawning is a much more fearsome tool than we once thought.
I am having other misgivings about respawning. The manual says
"Chinese infantry units that are totally destroyed are recreated. When destroyed, the unit is set
to return to Chungking 30 days later at 1/3 of it’s TO&E strength. These replacement units do
not use up any units from the replacement pool. They represent the almost unlimited ability of
China to replace infantry units if needed."
Apart from the fact that most chinese infantry units have quite a number of "non infantry" devices in their TOE, that seem to come back as well (to represent the almost unlimited ability of China to replace guns, engineers, and MMG sections?), I have also seen non infantry units come back.
I just had a look. They came back on 20/12/42 and the screen shot I posted is from 31/12/42. Not enough time for significant exp gain. They have just been sitting there. No fighting. I opened up the Chinese cities in this H to H test game while working on a test of BB taking multiple bomb hits and resulting damage. I am also interested to find out how much supply is generated by magic numbers at Chunking and Chengtu, and whether that with an Allied air bridge is enough to feed all of these Armies.
In my game with Jocke there is a million man Chinese Army across the river from my well dug-in troops! If they ever cross it will be the mother of all battles with unbelievably staggering losses to the Chinese, I'm sure. But if they are experienced enough, and have enough supply for one attack, I'm wondering what they could do?
At any rate, there are HMG, artillery, anti-tank guns and all other devices in each unit as well. There are numerous HQ, base force, construction and artillery units also in the base, but I have no real way of knowing if they were reinforcements due in the queue waiting for an open Chinese base, or if they're zombies. But based on your information from game, Francois, I would bet all units come back and find zombie guns in the netherworld on their way.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)
As you note, the 1,000,000 man chinese army really is a concern. I would agree, that it appears that they are respawning with EXP from their last on board state. The only good news is that the replacement squads (the other 2/3) will be coming in a the editor EXP levels, so the EXP will drop down as the units come up to strength. Nevertheless, it does mean those units respawning in Chungking when you are trying to take it will have higher the starting EXP, and hence be much tougher units. I think I will have to up my bomber AG requirement from 6 to 8 groups (~300 bombers now). [8D]
As to the 30 days, I will bet that this is also effected by the random delay if you have that in effect. If you have replacement units coming in at 0 randomness, then I am at a loss.
And yes, it is not only the squads but also all other devices respawning at 1/3. I did know about this. I am sure that is a concession to the code. It would really complicate it to exclude all non-squad devices in the respawn.
New pieces to the puzzle. [;)]
As to the 30 days, I will bet that this is also effected by the random delay if you have that in effect. If you have replacement units coming in at 0 randomness, then I am at a loss.
And yes, it is not only the squads but also all other devices respawning at 1/3. I did know about this. I am sure that is a concession to the code. It would really complicate it to exclude all non-squad devices in the respawn.
New pieces to the puzzle. [;)]
Pax