41-45GC - A FIGHT FOR SURVIVAL - GLVACA (Sov) v SJ80 (Axis) - NO SJ80

[glvaca]

In the Voronezh Area, 16th and 19th Armies are attached to the Wolga MD (previously to Urals MD) to avoid to high penalties because of mixing units. I don't have the AP's to sort it out as I'm basically spending most on building forts around Moscow in an effort to build lvl 3 forts. Incidentally, I see a major difference in German losses versus lvl 2 forts. A lvl 3 means approx equal losses, while lvl 2 is about 1/3rd to 1/2 losses for the German.

Anyway, I shore up the defenses around Voronzeh, more units are railed in. Lastly, I pray [:)]

[glvaca]

Finally, Overview South. He's really pushing his units as far forward as he can. Obviously, he's trying to gain as much turf as possible to give room to fall back. I'm not quite sure if he's not pushing it too far. Sure, he's annoying me. Sure, he's destroying RR's and taking a few towns. But there is a fine line between just enough, and too much...

[glvaca]

TURN 17

Before Soviet moves, Center.
I can hardly believe it, he managed to actually isolate Moscow but did not have the movement to actually follow up and create a real pocket.

I think it is fair to say that if there would be one more clear weather turn, or if I would not have been able to relieve the Rzhev pocket, Moscow would have been lost...
But that is the past! Moscow holds! But it truely must be with the narrowest margins, ever!

[glvaca]

Voronezh, close up.
Eventhough he makes some headway, Voronezh holds, at least till mud.

[glvaca]

Whole Front:

[glvaca]

Soviet Moves.
With Mud around the Corner I rail out as many divisions as I possibly can to start the process of refitting and regaining morale for the upcoming fight during Snow and, later, Blizzard.
I'm not out the woods yet in Moscow or Voronezh and, especially around Moscow & the Northern front, once strong units are badly depleted and low on morale...

[glvaca]

In the Center, I re-occupy the lost hexes East of Moscow and build several FZ, with 3 RR brigades attached, for maximum digging. It's mud, so I know it will be slow but I must try to dig as deep as possible. There's no doubt in my mind that come Snow, he'll be attacking again in full strength.

[glvaca]

South Overview.
Several armies are moves out of the line for R&R. Many divs are below 50 morale and this is the perfect time to try and improve on this.
Finally, after months in the thick of it, most Cav divisions are pulled out of the line in preparation for their transformation to Cav Corps.

[glvaca]

OOB

[glvaca]

Ground Losses

[glvaca]

Air Losses

[glvaca]

Lost Units

[glvaca]

Production.

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: glvaca

The game is currently at Turn 18 and it has been a nail biter for me from Turn 2 (you'll soon see why). But let's start with listing my start of the game objectives:
1. Preserve my army to enable me to launch a credible blizzard offrensive.
2. Stop the German advance as far West as possible.
3. Ideally, hold on to the Lower and Dnepr bend as a spring board for the Blizzard counter offensive.
4. As an absolute minimum hold on to Moscow, Voronezh and Rostov. In my previous games I have never lost Kharkov for example.

The game started with version 1.05.xx but has been progressively upgraded to the latest version and is currently at 1.06.03 beta.

After 17 nail biting turns, finally, mud has arrived and perhaps it is time for a recap. Of the pre-game objectives I was able to achieve 1. pretty well. With 2.7 million losses I think I'll have a decent army for Blizzard, provided I can avoid big mishaps during Snow.
Objectives 2 & 3, were clearly failures as I lost the Lower Dnepr early on (together with 9th Army) and I have had to give up much more territory then I would have liked to.
Objective 4 was a success, but just barely. Moscow is almost strangled and Voronezh is very close to being encircled. Both cities have much of their original production still in place, so the stakes are high.

As to my opponent SJ80 or Sebastian, he has played extremely well and it has been a tremendous challenge for me to even achieve the above, which all in all isn't that fantastic. I've been pulling my hear out trying to slow down, let alone stop, his offensives but to no avail. Stacks of 30+ in lvl 3 forts just get pushed back if not obliterated and I have not seen him lose a single combat where it matters. He is an expert attacker and he pratically always mixes several Corps during the attack freely in an effort to get in as much SU's as possible and it works very well. I'm not sure if I actually find this realistic although it is very much his privilledge to do so. My point being, that the system seems to reward ahistorical play (mixing many corps) while it should discourage. The negative mulitpliers don't seem to outweigh the advantages.

Counter attacking oppertunities have been few as he always stacks 2 or 3 when in close contact. When making pockets, he alsways captures as much terrain to the outside of the pocket as possible making it extreemly difficult to attack him or break the pocket. This is seriously annoying!

On a personal note, after such a 41, I find myself almost hating those grey counters! I have such an urge to hit back I must remind myself to be patient and stay cool. It ain't easy. Boy, I do hope he stands and fights somewhere during Blizzard.

So, with mixed feeling I look ahead to the Snow turns. I'm sure he'll try to finish what he started and take Moscow and Voronezh but I think the chances of holding are good. If I can fortify the front hexes to level 3's, rotate units and man the line with rested and strong divisions, backed up by plenty of reserves, I think I have a good chance of holding out and, in the process, allow him to weaken his units further to give me the best chance of a succesfull Blizzard offensive. With his attention rivitted on Moscow, even if he takes it, which I doubt, he'll be very reluctant to give up on it, which in turn will mean he will need to hold the flanks, in addition to the center, and that might provide opportunity...

Fast forward now to turn 21, and snow...

[glvaca]

Quick question, how quickly does damaged manpower recover?
Also, how much manpower, per city/town, is lost permanently?
Thanks!

[gids]

you play well glaca but im afraid youl be in for some surprises ,if he plays it smart he will have a full fledged assault going in 1942  ,and you will be astonished what the germans still can reach in 1942 ,he wont loose to much battles ass wel in 42 maybe sometimes a "held" if youre lucky .the game is nice ,it is fun but you cant say its to much of historical anymore ,the russian player these days doesnt have a chance to keep the main cities (unless your playing a new person) leningrad keeping....not a chance,moscou ....big HA ,you prob had 1 of the best planned defenses i saw and still it got hurt ,so youre in the same situation i am now against anorak,he only has 1 big objective now .....the south and believe me if he makes all his RR there and all his planes ,SU units you will loose stalingrad :p.
Anyway my point DONT underestimate 1942 act like its 1941 try to put forts on keypoints and start building forts around stalingrad ,because he WILL reach it if not take it ,if you can move the factories out of there to the edge of the map....although that didnt help me much because hes almost at the edge :p,dont even think going on the offensive that soon.
you play a nice game keep it up

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: glvaca

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Hopefully you moved the IL-2 factories from Voronezh?

And if you haven't yet, move all aircraft from Moscow, there is alot there

Unfortunately I was unable to move anything from Voronezh, he locked it in a blitz move.

I decided against moving the factories in N-Moscow and the Moscow hex, it's a gamble I know...

Too late for you, but Soviet players should bite the bullet and move even a fraction of the factories in Voronezh and Moscow. Sure, it will have a negative impact on IL-2 production, but they won't have a huge impact during the Blizzard, even if you ahve 1000s, so they will have several months to recover and start producing. Same goes for the Pe-2, IL-2 factories in Moscow. You better not lose all your IL-2 factories, that would be a complete disaster. I think you can live with 1/2, but no less! You cannot let those factories in Moscow fall.

And M-60 is right, the exception is don't bother to move the Mig-3s (or even the LAGG-3s in Taganrog)

[Scook_99]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I think he stripped the south of armor. I'd be marching forward from Rostov and slamming into all that infantry before it gets dug in.

Am not impressed by his hey diddle diddle up the middle approach to Moscow. It virtually guarantees that this push is just a raid. Even if he takes it, he can't hold it through winter. In order to do that he needs to clear out the entire area, not just stick his nose into the city and leave the flanks gathering strength.

I agree, it's not the best move to go right up the middle. However, so far, these two seemed evenly matched, both playing well but making some mistakes, so times like this one will be memorable. Sj80 did a "WWHD?" (What Would Hitler Do?), time is growing short, Moscow is in sight, let us make this a test of wills and take the city!

On the other side, GLVACA asked, what would Stalin do? He would dig in and fight for every inch of ground! Rather a bloody battle, Soviet troops hoping to be used in a Winter offensive are ground up and spit out, but elite German troopers are being lost while taking the city.

Hitler would be happy, claim victory, and we know they will be pushed back once blizzard hits. I can see Hitler foaming at the mouth as his troops are thrown back, and Stalin lighting up a stogie and urging his commanders to get to Berlin before spring.

The best of play, no. Making Moscow a point of fixation for both sides, now that's a rare thing. When I look back on fond memories of this game, something like this will stick out. Kudos for both people making this something to remember, and something that could happen on the Eastern Front.

[Flaviusx]

How is this rare? All my recent games have become big fights for Moscow.

What's becoming rare is those games where Moscow holds.

[gids]

first it was difficult to keep leningrad ,now moscou and stalingrad  is next ,then prob some new supply method because they have difficulties reaching baku :p